****major contivercial thoughts***** - I'm ticked!

luvbug00 wrote: my friend just posted me that all latinos will be taking may 1st off to make the point this county can not survive without them . i am latina I'm appaled this was my reasponce to her.

"Please tell me this is a joke.. ..And this is supposed to accomplish what? SO now all the men who work for their daily pay can not get picked up ever again and risk their landscaping jobs by taking a day off to make a point? then what happens no pick up=no pay witch means they starve. And This whole thing is ridicules. crying racism ? give me a break. their is nothing raciest about trying to help those people ( Latinos included) who came to the states applied for their work permits and green cards and visas and now they are being forced to choose between their community and the country they worked so hard to enter? So now those who come over the border whose "work" was getting here so they can pop out kids who can give them a free pass to the states. and then they can just waltz in here, take the lower income families ( like those on a visas) medical care.calling for no school? so make the kids suffer too? smart. The march accomplished nothing. why? because the congressman were all on break,the speeches were all in Spanish ( i wonder how many sen. speak Spanish) and all they cried was racism..which accomplishes nothing. How about saying " we Latinos contribute to society, we are honest working people, we are trying to become legal,"?? (which it is hard to become legal but it can be done in some form..) I will not partake in this, like i didn't partake in the march. To show you are a contributing member of society go get a work permit get a job and start filing out those paper to become legal.. " I'm still struggling to make my way. This will make more people suffer rather then help. I'm ticked!

mods, if you want to remove feel free, i understand. I just feel as a member of this society and this culture calling false things, as outragous as racism I have a right to state my opinions. Thank you..

jem0622 replied: It is a very difficult time that we are up against with immigration law. I don't think that anyone should deprive their family of needed income for this very heated issue. I'm sorry that she upset you!

C&K*s Mommie replied: I heard too that there will be a strike.

DVFlyer replied: Another sensitive issue for sure. I doubt they will lose their jobs for taking a day off in protest, though.

punkeemunkee'smom replied: OK Nadia here I am....


The issue at hand here is not racisim. The issue at hand is the fact that in a post 9/11 world our country is still being over run by illegal and unknown people crossing the border everyday! Yes, some of them have jobs ,most to the detrament of those who were born here or came here legally. A work crew down here doesn't make $3 an hour because it is fair they make $3 because they can't charge anymore than that....a company can hire 3 1/2 illegals (sometimes more) for less than what they would have to pay an AMERICAN to do the same job. Illegal immigrants do NOT pay taxes. And seemingly contribute to our ever growing socio-economic problems in this coutry by lowering wages paid and upping the unemployment of legal men and women who can't earn a fair living wage. They send COUNTLESS amounts of our currency to other countries once again untaxed and therefore lower the value of our dollar. Yet they march unheeded by border patrol and the like holding signs saying I AM ILLEGAL... How do we track a people with no identification other than the name they give if caught....MEXICO won't allow it of our people in their country-NO OTHER COUNTRY in the world is as lax as the U.S. on their borders. The fact of the matter is that brown skin,white skin, purple skin....If you did not come here legally then you don't belong here at all!

DVFlyer replied: ^^^^


I'm amazed with how upset people seem to be about the issue that there aren't 500,000 american citizens marching to enforce the immigration laws.

punkeemunkee'smom replied:
You won't see a march either because in the inception of these immigration dicussions the faces that made it to the news first did an excellent job of turning a national security issue into a race issue. Now if you speak out against illegal immigrants who are just trying to better themselves you must actually be a racist pig bend on the destruction of the 'poor huddled masses'!

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
I've never heard it said more perfectly than that.

Crystalina replied: I've said it before and I'll say it again. If it weren't for cheapskate Americans we would not have an immigration problem. The Americans are too darn cheap to pay another American to do the job. So they pay the immigrants much less which causes them (the immigrants) to continue coming to this country illegally. They would not come if it weren't for the jobs.

Then the Americans cry about the illegals. Go figure.

Bee_Kay replied:
Abbie-
I read in amazement at the posts/replies that you write. You write with not only intelligence but with great skill.

I imagine you would be quite a challenge in a debate type setting ! LOL

punkeemunkee'smom replied: Thank you Barb!

Maddie&EthansMom replied: Yes Barb..ITA. She is very intelligent.

punkeemunkee'smom replied: Thank you! I enjoy speaking to you all! You make me think!

luvbug00 replied: I agree Abbie. you are stating the point I'm trying to make. What makes it worse for me is that the person who sent this has not had to deal with the immigration struggle. Niether have I. But my Bf has and I have sat with her in the office of immigration trying to figure it out. ( my best friend was getting her greencard and sence then She has served 4 years in the marines and is possibly going to be re deployed) she Joined the marines to CONTRIBUTE to the country that has given her so much. I think the whole protest makes me want to scream because it just proves the sterotype that latino immigrants are lazy and whiney and just want hand outs. I hope they resove this soon for all people..

Crystalina replied:

BAC'sMom replied:

Well girl let's just go 3 for 3 where we agree!

I afraid it is going to flood in Texas

TANNER'S MOM replied:
Are you American? I am just wondering from that response?

I understand that it is a heated issue But I think you are making a wonderful point.. We Americans have a voice in this country... we Americans get to vote and pass laws that say you have to contribute to society to be here, work, learn our history and all the other fun things that let us know you really want to be a citizen. I am very proud of my country, I feel every law no matter what law should be enforced no matter which border you cross. Be it our friends up north or south.

Americans don't want to pay?? Does that make us cheapskates or smart. Why pay more when you don't have too? If we paid more.. does that mean it would solve our immagation problems.. I think not??

My3LilMonkeys replied: Abbie - you are a very well spoken (written?) person! It doesn't come out as obviously in everyday conversation as it has in some of the debate posts today. ITA with your opinion here and greatly respect your knowledge and ability to speak your mind!

redchief replied: I have been directly affected by the influx of illegal immigrants to this country and I don't feel I'm being racist when I say that something needs to be done to ensure that everyone who works in this country is working for fair pay and paying their fair share in taxes. I have scaled my plumbing business down from six trucks to two and gotten out of the new construction side of the business because I can't compete with my competitors who hire illegals and underbid me to the point where if I were to bid low enough to win a job I would lose money.

I had to let go three very competent journeyman plumbers because I couldn't afford them anymore. Unfortunately the mindset in this country is such that one of them went out and partnered with another plumber who hired illegals to win jobs; the very thing that lost him his high paying, well benefited job. The worst thing is, he still isn't making any money because those he's bidding against bid their jobs at the rates they pay their immigrant workers, thereby eliminating any benefit they once had from hiring them in the first place. Fortunately we have been able to keep the service end of our business healthy enough to continue on.

Does something need to be done? Absolutely. If we in this country want to keep the economy strong and moving, all facets of society, white collar, blue collar and in between, need to have fair wages and decent benefits. The argument that illegals are doing work that "Americans" won't do is just more poo-flinging. The truth is that Americans won't do the work the illegals are doing at the wage rates the illegals are doing them for. It's not the same thing. Oh yes, something must be done for the economic survival of this country.

A&A'smommy replied: VERY valid point very interesting post.. I really don't follow stuff this, like i should anyway (I can't handle watching the news it depresses me) but I learned a lot reading this thank you for posting it!

Crystalina replied:
Yes, I am very American. I also think that yes there are American cheapskates out there. Have you never met one?

I think there are Americans out there who do not want to pay what an American will want to be paid. What does he do then? Hires someone (takes advantage of someone more like) who will do it for much less. Why does he do this? To save a buck in his pocket. In other words, yes, he is a cheapskate.
An American could not survive (here) on what some of these (probabley most of them) make. Have you ever seen how the illegal immigrants live? I have. There are like 15 men crammed into one little apartment. They aren't here for the luxurys of America. They are here for our money. They have practically no furniture, they are living to work. Who are they working for? Other illegals? Or even other Mexicans? No. They are working for the American with the money.
If the American would pay what the job is really worth then an American will do it. Now, that is not to say ALL Americans will. There will always be the ones who are always looking for the better offer.

Yes, I'm American and Yes I disagree sometimes with what Americans do. This is, afterall, America and I can do that.

punkeemunkee'smom replied:


Of course there are Americans out there that don't want to pay what a legal citizen needs to make to have ends meet. Why would they? Good business sense says less labor overhead more $$$ in my pocket. Business owners with these practices are most assuredly a large part of the problem. They should be fined and fined harshly! But to say the illegals are being taken advantage of (this is the cry of the marchers right now as well)...HOW I ask? They come here with nothing. They have full access to our health systems, our welfare system, our schools and our money. They take money from our economy directly by not paying taxes therefore upping mine, they degrade the value of our money by sending it back to the people in their country of origin, and most importantly they take the jobs and food away from legal Americans. It is an epidemic in my state that angers and saddens me. I have heard all the arguements about the illegal immigrants contributing to the gross national product FUNNY how the same voices yelling that information so loudly are want to discuss the figures of what the illegal population takes from our economy.The bottom line is this : crack down on the people who are already here...let them march and round them up in front of the capitols and federal buildings they are protesting in front of, shut the borders to day traffic nobody gets to come over on day trips and disappear in the crowd-document the comings and goings on both sides North of us and South, bring the jobs back to the legal citizens of this nation. The economy can do nothing but improve job rates go up unemployment goes down along with the tax burden on everyone. More money stays here and everyone is better off for it! You are right this is AMERICA and if they want to be here they need to be here LEGALLY or they need to GO HOME!

luvmykids replied: OK, I have to throw in 2 cents as a business owner ... and in an industry that is very competitive and can be diffucult to realize a profit in, which is construction.

Yes, we could hire illegals at a much cheaper rate and make more money. But we don't for two very simple reasons:
1. We love our country and its citizens and will not put a few extra bucks in our pockets at the expense of any American citizen, regardless of nationality.
2. It is illegal!! It is not only morally an issue with us but a legal one as well. Plain and simple we won't hire someone without proper docs, period, I don't care how cheap they're willing to work.

It has zero to do with race/nationality and everything to do with honesty and respect for our country, it's laws, and it's citizens.

I have many friends of varying racial backgrounds and on that front could care less if someone is from Mars. FWIW, I have friends from Mexico, legally and illegally, and none of them are lazy but far from it.

Nadia, tell your friend thank you, as a soldier, for serving our country.

Crystalina replied:
If you want to talk about the bottom line the bottom line is that we as Americans don't hire them. That is what I'm saying. We are not goint to be able to stop them from entering our country, have you seen that tunnel yet? That thing was huge and besides the drugs, I can only imagine how many illegals have entered like that. And that is the tunnell we found. If you stop the reason they are coming here they will stop coming here. It really isn't that difficult if everyone would stop emlpoying them and handing them what they want without them being legal. If they come here and cannot get our benefits or our jobs they will not come.

It's like a child. You don't dangle something in front of his face and give into him everytime he wants you to and then complain he is spoiled. Who is to blame for that? The Parent.
America is the Parent in this case.

It's not rocket science, just common sense.

luvbug00 replied:

I will. She is very ticked as well because her family fought so hard to get thier papers from DAY 1 and got them and now other people are trampling over what they worked sop hard for.


I also wanted to state to everyone I'm sorry i was so random with this but when I recieved the e-mail i was in a blind rage.i didn't know who else to talk to and wanted to vent and let you see NOT all latinos feel that other people ( of all races, cultures, religons) should get into this country with no obligation or contarabution. It just so happends the latinos are making the biggest stink about it and I felt as a latina I Do not agree.

thanks again

redchief replied:
Sometimes what we say in anger produces honest sharing of ideas. I think that is so in this thread. As far as I'm concerned no apology was necessary.

Crystalina replied:
I agree.

luvmykids replied:
No apology needed, it must be frustrating beyond belief to feel stereotyped and categorized and make you want to jump up and down waving your arms going "Wait! Thats not me!!!"

ashtonsmama replied:
ITA. And looks like everyone here is making some great points, it's fun to hear/read what you all think...I would chime in more but I'm a horrible debater...

punkeemunkee'smom replied: America is NOT responsible for the fact that their governments are inept in the care of it's citzens. We have more than enough problems in the interior of our land that go unchecked because we seem to be the nursemaid, over and over, to the world at large. You mentioned the tunnel-to me that is laughable the tunnel is the least of the problems-you wanna talk high traffic transport? Try stopping every 10th Honda civic coming out of the valley. It is open and flagrant here and LAWS that are already in place are being ignored and laughed at,in the intrest of 'human rights' and anti-racism sentiments. You are right in the fact that American's shouldn't hire them but how about the fact that our government subsidizes businesses who hire workers from Mexico 2x a year during peak times. You are right you can't stop them all-not without lots more man power and the backing of all those involved to detain and deport those here illegally immediately NOT 2 weeks later in a court date they never show up for. It is time to start treating people who are here against the law(and the people who hire them) as what they are criminals They are breaking a law put in place to protect the greater good.

JAYMESMOM replied:
I agree if they are here illegally then they have NO RIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!

IF they are congregating, marching, etc. they should be able to be picked up they dont pay taxes, arent here legally, etc. so why should they get the rights that so many have fought to obtain for themselves. Or for those that are citizens are afforded. If we Americans go to another country do you think we would get the same rights they have. Absolutely NOT!!

It is a joint problem -- employers need to stop hiring them but the government also needs to keep them out. If they want to be here then they need to do it legally like many others have done.

DVFlyer replied: Fine the employers for hiring illegal workers and they will stop hiring them. If illegal workers stop getting hired they will stop coming here.