Am I overly sensitive? - disney movies

PrairieMom wrote: I bought Ben Peter Pan today and sat down with the neighbor kids and him to watch it. Well, its been YEARS since I last saw that movie, and I noticed a lot of things that I hadn't noticed before. Like, in one of the first scenes with Captian Hook the movie shows him shoot one of his Pirates. Well, it shows him aim the gun, you hear the bang, then you hear the splash as the guy hits the water. Personally, I am not all about guns, so I am a little uncomfortable with that.
Okay, then I never noticed all the things with the 'Natives" (or what ever they prefer to be called in your region... ) they call them "savages" and "red men" and say things like "squaw get-em firewood"
They also show Captian Hook smoking, and I won't even get into the mermaids and their lack of breast coverage.

I know that these things were probably exceptable 40 years ago when this movie was made, but this is a new generation of children watching this stuff. I also know that Disney movies are classics, but I am still bothered by some of the stuff in their movies.
(don't make me get into the scene with the crows in "dumbo" )
And why does a parent have to die in every single one? Poor Ben has still never seen the beginning of Nemo.

Am I being overly sensitive? anyone else bothered by this?

cameragirl21 replied: i can't watch Bambi because of what happens to his mother, i deplore hunters.
i also hate guns and i've always thought Disney movies and cartoons were way too violent.
idk if kids really give this as much thought as we do but i recall when Pocahontas came out and i was babysitting in those days, i was watching it with a five year old boy and his 2 year old sister and i know the parents would not have appreciated this but i turned to the sister and pointed to the screen and said, "that's an Indian, Rebecca, they lived here in America until the white man came and killed them."
at any rate, long story short, i am totally with you on this one. and i know some kids were really upset by the dad dying in the Lion King.

Kirstenmumof3 replied: No I don't think you are being overly sensitive! I was watching the Little Mermaid one of Emily's favourate movies and now Claudia's favourate. The part with the sea witch and all the Mermaids she had under her power really got to me! There are violence in a lot of the Disney movies old and new! I think the only thing you can do is watch the movie before hand and see if they are appropriate for your children!

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
There are still Indians in America

Anyway, ITA with you about Disney movies. Just b/c they are Disney doesn't mean they are good for our kids.

cameragirl21 replied:
they live on reservations that are considered separate nations with separate laws...they do not abide by US laws, nor do they consider themselves part of the US.
there are two large reservations close to Miami and I was at one of them today, trying to find a bow and arrow for my Sagittarius pic and I have seen these reservations they live on and their resentment toward the rest of us so it's a bit of a touchy subject for me.

Maddie&EthansMom replied: Not all of them live on reservations. And most of them in this part of the country do abide by the US laws. And they get special treatment from the govt. I'm sorry this is a sensitive topic for you, but I feel the need to correct you since several of my friends are Indian and I am around Indians on a daily basis, seeing that I'm so close to Oklahoma and all.

luvbug00 replied: i say you are seeing your values challenged but one must realize WHEN thease movies were made. political correctness was not top priority. I love all disney moves and let mya watch them all and just tell her they were made a long time ago when people weren"t aware they may be hurting others.

TANNER'S MOM replied: I am close to Oklahoma. Not even an hour.. and their are alot who don't live on reservations. I love seeing them with their children. You can't tell the boys from girls, hence alot believe it's bad luck to cut their children's hair.

But they are shopping working paying taxes just like the rest of us Americans.

Calimama replied:
I second that. The PC term is Native American's. I have quite a few friends who get offended by being called "Indian." They consider themselves part of America. I grew up learning Indian so it kind of throws me off.

Disney movies don't bother me.

boyohboyohboy replied: I totally agree that most of the disney movies we do not watch....
Its hard to find things on tv that are ok for the kids....thats why most all of our tv viewing for the kids is stuff from church...like the veggie tales, or larry boy, or horned avenger....still boy stuff, but much tamer

Crystalina replied: Peter Pan is horrible! I posted about t his awhile back. We bought Izabella the movie. Tinkerbell was a freakin nutcase! She beat the ca-ca out of Wendy in the begining. Drug her across the room by the hair! Then Wendy asked PP what Tink said and he said, "She's gonna kill you."
There was also a scene with mermaids and one of the mermaids grabbed Wendy. PP said to be careful because the mermaids drown people! Not to mention the mermaids looked very very scary. Izabella loved mermaids until she saw that. It was one of those movies that I bought her and let her take into her room to watch. I thought it was safe but apparently it was disturbing.

BAC'sMom replied: You are not been over sensitive Tara. Bambi, Fox in the Hound, 101 Dalmatians, and Lion King they are all violent in some form.

PrairieMom replied: I'm so glad You guys agree with me. All my IRL friends think I am a nutcase!

Crystalina replied:
Whoa! Wait a minute there girly. We aren't saying you aren't a nutcase.

Jackie012007 replied: no Tara I'm the same, alot of them horrify me too! Tarzan is so awful!! The beginning where the parents get killed and stuff - that horrified me!!

Bambi is sad, but my dad is a hunter and I hate how they portray hunters as men that will shoot at anything that moves - it's not the case for some. My dad is a very ethical hunter, that always used to bother me about that one .

Nina J replied:
I agree. I don't think you're being overly sensitive. everybody is different. Personally, I think you can't wrap you kids in cotton wool. The world's not a perfect place, but at least in Disney movies it ends happily ever after.

gr33n3y3z replied:
Its the same way here in NJ

gr33n3y3z replied:
why? I thnk that is a pretty strong word
I see no problem with it as long as your going to eat what you shoot
If you do it for just the fun of it and leave it behind then I have a problem with it.
But to put food on the table why not?

Now in children movies G rated I dont think its right for that to be in there
but then again its part of life it happends.

Kat replied:

Frankly, that would be the last time you babysat my children. Knowingly telling the child something her parents wouldn't appreciate (and not even completely factual)? Wow.

Obviously, you should first screen/research what your kids watch.

MommyToAshley replied: I agree with you about the Disney movies. I remember watching the movies as a kid but didn't remember the violence. I was shocked when I started watching them with Ashley. I don't like it at all and we do a lot of fast-forwarding. She has never watched the first Bambi movie or even a few of the Princess movies.

There are some classic books I don't care for either.... Like Winnie the Pooh. Every book has a reference to "Pooh was a bear of little brain" or "Pooh was not very smart". I used to skip those parts but it is harder now that Ashley is starting to read.

punkeemunkee'smom replied:

Dee Dee I do that too! The other day Taylor said MOM you skipped some words....

mom2my2cuties replied: I have an issue with a lot of shows and movies. Especially now that I have kids. I don't think you could truly be oversensative to things when it comes down to your children and the values that we as parents have a duty to instill in our children. It's not about challenging a moral or anything like that. It is about protecting one of our greatest treasures and fullfilling our duty as parents to teach them values. And how are they going to learn the proper value if we say it, but they are allowed to watch something contradictory to what we are trying to instruct. As parents, I believe it is our job to be the boss, and sometimes that means making the hard choices and saying NO! I mean seriously, just because Disney (Or Pixar for that matter) makes or endorses it, doesn't mean that is safe or appropriate for children.

lovemykiddies replied: Kind of interesting...last semester we read an article in class about deaths in Disney movies...meta-analysis type of study. Of the 10 movies analyzed, there were 23 depicted death scenes! The study analyzed whether protagonists died, whether the death was a sleep death or violent one, etc. It was really interesting, it even considered the positives of death scenes...

Cece00 replied:
Wow, highly HIGHLY inappropriate. Not to mention you use the word "Indian" which is (as other ppl have told you) not PC @ ALL.

Honestly, you are lucky those werent MY children you said something like that to. Why on earth would you say that to a FIVE year old in front of a TWO year old, and then to say it KNOWING her parents would've been upset! What on earth were you thinking???????????? No 5 yr old needs to hear stuff like "The white man came and killed all the indians"

Anyway, on the topic of Disney movies....my kids rarely watch them, not because I think there is anything bad about them, but because we're not really into Disney. But anyway, when my kids have watched them, they werent traumatized by them. My kids have seen Nemo, but they didnt freak out or even get upset. But I guess the problem with the movies is how long ago they were made, since they arent PC, but then again I think this whole "PC movement" in the US has gone wayyyyyy overboard. Like now you arent supposed to call people illegal aliens, but rather "undocumented workers". Nevermind that fact that they ARE aliens and they ARE here illegally. But anyway, thats JMO.

If you dont feel Disney movies are appropriate for your child, there are so many shows that ARE ok, I just wouldnt watch them.

stella6979 replied:
I absolutely agree with everything you just said.
Personally, I don't really have a problem with the movies as I feel that death is a part of life and I want my children to realize that and to learn to have compassion for those who do lose loved ones, BUT, at the same time I do feel that they sometimes put to much emphasis on it. I mean, is it really necessary to kill someone off in every Disney movie to get a point across?
To answer the original question though...no, I don't think you're being overly sensitive.

Boo&BugsMom replied: I personally use those types of moments as teaching moments. If there is something that may be seen as a little innappropriate, then we talk to Tanner about it. We have more issues with potty words that he hears. We have yet to run into an issue over seeing a gun, smoking (which half my family does anyways), and other things because we talk to him about those things when those teachable moments arise. Tara, I don't think you are being overly senstive, just cautious. I am that way too, but I think those moments can be used to teach which can be invaluable in the long run.

Funny...on a side note from another post...my brother's best friend is half indian (or whatever term people prefer, he personally does NOT have a prefernce because he's not like that and could care less what people call him) and he doesn't live on a reservation, went to schools like other kids, abides by the laws, etc. I would think our society has come along way to not think that every person who is indian is that sterotypical vision of the past.

kerriella replied: I'm sorry but I have to say I disagree. Granted my kids are 9 and 13 but they
have always watched disney movies and neither have ever been traumatized by
any of them.
I admit some of the older disney movies do have an uncomfortable
amount of racism in them but it just opened up a chance to have great dialogue
with them about how far we as a country have come in the last century.
As far as the death of parents and others in disney films...Death is a fact of life.
We all experience it and I have never been one to shield my children from the
outside world or the bad things that happen to good people. I think both of my
kids are more compassionate because of it.
Not only that but its the bad things that happen in our lives that teach and give us strength. If my kids are shielded from anything that might make them feel anything other than warm and fuzzy then how are they going to process it or deal
with something bad in their own lives when it happens?

I am still kinda new to the boards and I hope I haven't offended anyone with my
opinion, as it is only my opinion and not meant to infringe on anyone elses beliefs.

MommyToAshley replied:
Hello and Welcome!!! I am glad you joined us! And, I don't think you offended anyone. We encourage everyone with different opinions to post... it helps us all look at things from a different perspective. I may not agree with everyone's opinions, but I can honestly say that I often stop and look at things in a different light because of something someone wrote on Parenting Club.

mummy2girls replied:
wow ... me being a child care provider would never have the guts to say that to a child let alone my own child...Im sorry if i offended you but i found that pretty harsh in my oppinion.

kerriella replied:
Thanks for the welcome and the reassurance. I have been around the internet
long enough to know not to jump into a new board with my opinions until I have
felt the pulse a bit more. (nothing worse than causing an uproar or being called a
troll lol) however this is one subject I feel pretty strongly about with my own kids
so I broke my own rules and posted.

Kaitlin'smom replied: Its interesting as kids we watched them and thought nothing of them, now as adults we are shocked/mortified/mad/upset what ever you wish to call it about them. Dont get me wrong I was to in watchign some of them its very shocking and then I remember not thinking anything of it when I was a kid, they are not real they are stories. Kaitlin and I talk about them and whats wrong in them why you should not do this or that.

If you want to look into movies that are family friendly I have a few from Feature Films for Familys that teach valuse and dont have some of the 'Disney violance'

Everyone has to decide whats best for there family, all we can do as parents is help our childern learn and grow.

Calimama replied:
Welcome!! Your response was well-worded.

JP&KJMOM replied:

I agree Lisa. I come from a long line of hunters. When I was a kid my father HAD to hunt to put food on the table at times. IT was hunt and eat or starve your kids so he did what he had to do. Yes we still hunt and my kids hunt and that is our choice and a way of life where we live.

Also ~ one of the greatest women I know is Indian as well as my best friend is 100 % against hunting of any kind but she is still my best friend and here opinions are hers and mine are mine.

TANNER'S MOM replied: Well we know where I stand on hunting. I think that alot of people don't see the gray area. If we are hunters then we are cruel to animals. Where there is a gray matter. I have animals that are treated better than I am mostof the time. As I type this two cats I rescued are siting around me, well one is nibbling on my toes...but none the less. I have horses, cattle, a few chickens, dogs etc. My animals are treated very well. So the people who think that just because I hunt means I have no heart towards animals is wrong. I have standards and I believe in the ethical treatment of animals and ethical hunting.

So, you can deplore me and my family all you want. And that's fine. But I think it's time to realize there are more than one lifestyle. And one does not make the other better. Nothing is black and white. And peopel who don't and won't see gray..well why bother talking. They are always right anyway.

cameragirl21 replied:
well, Shelly, i've never lacked for guts.
i told the girl's parents and they were neither shocked nor upset, in fact, they agreed with me. not all parents are going to be upset by this, just like not all parents here have an issue with the Disney movies while some have very big issues with them. it's all a question of preference.
i've always been inclined to tell kids the truth about things, other than things like Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and other things that kids should hold as a fantasy because it's part of the joys of being a child.
i think the reason people tend to be up in arms by what i said is because people often don't want to realize that Indians are not necessarily all hunky dorey and forgiving about what happened. I know quite a few Indians as we have 2 major reservations here and I visit both regularly...and most are still resentful about their land being dispossessed.
i personally revile any movie that is based on a historical occurrence but is dumbed down and given a happy ending when there wasn't one in reality. if i were a Native American i'd be livid about a movie like Pocahantas. just like as a Jew i'd be livid about any movie made about the holocaust that did not tell the truth and pretended to be different from what it really was.
btw, most Indians are very nice people, i know plenty who live both on and off reservations. most that i know do not celebrate Thanksgiving and have not forgotten what happened and i think the key to history not repeating itself is to make sure we all learn it in its actual format, not what Disney wanted to sugarcoat to make money off it.
i for one, think the plight of Native Americans should never be forgotten and i don't think kids are too young to learn about it. maybe i said it in harsh terms but no matter how you want to say it, it was what it was and we should never forget it or assume it can't happen again...to anyone or to us.

Insanemomof3 replied:

Those aren't REAL??!!!?!?!?! Gee thanks jennifer. LOL

cameragirl21 replied:

skinkybaby replied: All I can say is wow. A lot of the other moms on here have already said what I'm thinking so I won't repeat any of it.


As far as the Disney thing, isn't it amazing what you pick up as an adult that you somehow missed as a kid?
Especially movies like Grease. I almost fell out of my chair the first time I really paid attention to the words in Grease Lightning. I had seen the movie dozens of times, but I think I was 18 before I really paid attention to what they were saying.

DansMom replied: I had a similar reaction when we rented Peter Pan. The sexism and racism were so overt it was nauseating. I had to undo some racial concepts Daniel picked up from that film. At the same time I don't want to shelter him from exposure to cultural icons---it just takes active parenting. I don't leave him in front of films and walk away unless we've already seen it together.

C&K*s Mommie replied: I agree with you on many points that you made. Sensitive or not, I am cautious about those sorts of things too with my girls.

I always had to fast forward over that part in the beginning of Finding Nemo. Even when Nemo is taken by the humans out of the water, I had to fast forward over the screams.

cameragirl21 replied:
if you think about it though, there is sexism even in children's fairy tales. i never gave it much thought till a friend of mine got this hilarious book of children's fairy tales written in politically correct terms.
if you consider Little Red Riding Hood, this was a girl who couldn't even recognize her own grandmother from a wolf! i mean, how dumb would you have to be?!?
and yet i remember this fairy tale from when i was little and never gave that aspect of it much thought.
i've also read that Rapunzel's tower is really a phallic symbol of the fact that she needed a man to save her but again, i never thought about it that way.
i wonder if we just see all of this as adults and assume the kids pick up on it but in reality, the kids probably really don't.
My fave Dr Seuss book is The Lorax and i remember giving it to my graphic artist's niece to read. she read it and said she loved it and that it was very cute but i could see she never picked up on the environmental message in it and i told my ga that i was disappointed that Emily (her niece) didn't really see the story for what it was and my ga pointed out something that i didn't realize but should have been obvious...she said, "well, when you were little, did you understand that environmental message (because this was my fave story even when i was little)?"
and i realized that i too, as a child never thought of the book as being environmentally conscious, i just loved the Lorax and still do.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Oye.



Glad ya'll are staying somewhat civil....


I don't have a problem with Disney movies, really. One - they're (mostly) cartoons. They're not "real". My kdis know that cartoons are just pretend, like a dream. So what they see in it, they know it's all fake. And when they're not sure, they get a reminder.

Secondly - something that really helped my kids deal with the whole cycle of life stuff, like death, and accidents etc, is the Land Before Time series. They deal with a variety of things like "differences" between "types" of dinosaurs, and death, and bullying. The main characters' "parents" are always there to offer reassurance, and learning opportunities. There are all different types of parents, too. The angry ones, the lax ones, the single ones etc... and they are more realistic than a lot of the kids movies, even if they're about dinosaurs.

Death is a part of life. Rape, murder and bullying is a part of our society.

To tell you all the truth... I'd deal with the violence in the movies and take the opportunity to teach your children about the nastiness of it. If the children don't learn about it early, then when they do get to school, or aorund a situation where there is some "violence" they're going to be the wimpy little bullied kids, because they won't know how to recognize and defend themselves against the bullies. No offense meant to anyone.

Jackie012007 replied:
Mel you know I find that many hunters tend to be the most responsible, frequent animal lovers/owners - my dad and mom own 4 dogs, 2 cats and fish! My dad is a dog groomer and they also foster animals for the shelter my mom volunteers fore. We've had rabbits, turkeys, goats, a duck...you name it, in my lifetime - almost all were rescue animals!

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Come all ya'll - give it a rest with this "offended over a comment" crap - to be completely honest, it may have been a crude comment to say to a little child, but please. Many of us do much worse, and on a daily basis. Enough already.

Cece00 replied:
I think people did not like the comment because there are many more educational, TACTFUL ways to teach children about such without basically turning to a small, impressionable child who didnt even ASK about that topic and says "white people came to America and killed all the indians". Especially because you said you knew the parents would be upset (although now they were understanding when you told them what you said....OK) and because they arent YOUR children to be teaching that to. I think everyone knows what happened to indians, I dont think people want to sugar coat it, but I also think people dont want other people teaching kids stuff when its not their place.

I would never go & say something like that to another person's child, its not appropriate. And I was incorrect, you said it to the TWO yr old, right? The girl? I mean I cant even imagine anyone telling that to my 2 yr old, *I* would not even say that to MY 2 yr old! I wouldnt have even said it my 5 yr old the way you said it.

There are many other ways to teach children about sad/upsetting/bad things that happened and will happen (slavery, what happened to the native americans/jewish, death, racism, etc etc etc) but the PARENTS, not a babysitter, should be teaching those things to their children.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
I agree - not tactful...but how many of us were tactful at like 13 years old?

Of course we as parents and as grown adults who know better think it's wrong... but to be quite honest, at 13 sometimes I'd do things on purpose to tick parents off.

Cece00 replied:
I would never have said something like that to a kid @ 13 yrs old. Esp a 2 yr old. But thats just me.

I might've tried to tick off MY parents , but not parents of kids I babysat for.

And any 13 yr old who said that to my kids would NOT be returning to my home, and that 13 yr olds parents would receive a phone call letting them know what happened & that it would be wise to teach their 13 yr old some tact, manners, and a suggestion that they may not want to let her babysit anymore until she had learned how to behave appropriately around young impressionable children.

Where did the # 13 come into play by the way? I mustve missed it when she said she was 13.

But that still doesnt make it OK to me.

CantWait replied:
I think Rocky said it all.

As for "Indians" though, since it was brought up. I just want to mention, that those natives that choose to live in reservations is a choice they make to seclude themselves from the rest of society. Here in Canada we didn't kill them, we just "took" "their" land *Insert sarcasim here* Natives here with proper identity cards do not pay taxes and get a few perks as well I understand.
Since I'm staying nice, that's all I'll say on the subject.

gr33n3y3z replied:
I use to buy those also
I will have to say they are well done movies

Boo&BugsMom replied:
It's so interesting you bring this up. I use to watch that movie (and it's still my favorite to this day) when I was little every single day! I was only like 5 or 6 years old. I had no idea what half of it meant, but I loved it and would pretend to be Rizzo and put on performances for my family. I listen to the songs today and see the movie and go "HOLY COW!"! My son loves the song Greased Lightning, but when he started to be able to pick out lyrics like a pro we had to stop playing it. I don't want him running around saying "pu**y wagon".

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
It didn't come into play, I guess I was assuming... most babysitters are around 13-15...at least in my area.

I was very tactless as an early teen.. i smartened up fast... but look at today's 9 year old... they're more like 15 year olds in pre-pubescent bodies... so i don't find it an unlikely nor uncommon story, and in anycase, it doesn't matter all that much.

It's still not ok... but, most of us do worse daily, like i mentionned before.

coasterqueen replied:
ITA!

Off topic but I can't believe how this topic went from talking about disney movies to much other things that really didn't pertain to this.

stella6979 replied:
I, by no means, am trying to start an argument, but I don't think it's fair of you to assume what most of us do.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
Sorry - I meant that we do worse things - like yell, or spank, or force the kids to eat, or take away a toy, etc etc.... those things we do on a regular basis, probably have more of an impact on our children than one comment when they're two....and some of them are no better. Wasn't trying to say that we do WRONG things. My bad.

A&A'smommy replied:
I KNOW I LOVE bambi BUT my dad hates the movie because he is a hunter (so is everyone else I know including a LOT of girls) he is an ethical hutner, they don't shoot them if they are too little or if they are getting up there in age. And bambi makes all hunters look terrible.

I agree though these movies are crazy but I LOVE them and so does my daughter, and I will continue to let her watch them. Tom and Jerry is the same way, smoking LOTS of violence, getting drunk its crazy... and I NEVER noticed those things when I was young!!

cameragirl21 replied: i really should just let this go but i personally still don't see it as a bad thing to say and it was said well over 10 years ago and that little girl grew up and has no issues, at least not pertaining to this so there's really no need to get all up in arms over it.
whether or not something is tactful is clearly a matter of opinion as i see people saying things here everyday that is not only not tactful but could potentially get them beat up if said IRL and yet it seems they don't think there's anything wrong with what they said so obviously it's a matter of opinion. i personally will always defend Indians and their rights, which i do believe were taken from them even if they do get tax breaks and whatnot, you cannot make up for what is lost.
btw, i asked my mom about this and she said that i'm more sensitive to the Native American issue for obvious reasons...and hopefully so will that little girl be because IMO you can never be too sensitive to a people being disenfranchised for any reason.

jcc64 replied: Huh, I have to say, I find this thread to be a little, uh, uncivilized, to say the least. It's strayed wayyyy off topic and veered very close to being a pile on, imo. Maybe Jen's babysitting story was a little provocative, but the b********s of some of the responses seems entirely unnecessary.
C'mon guys, play nicely.

ediep replied: well, back to Tara's original question.....I don't think you are being overly sensitive, but jason doens't watch too many Disney movies. He LOVES Finding Nemo, but I don't ff the beginning and he doesn't even askw hat happened to Coral.

I don't think there are any deaths in Toy STory.

holley79 replied:
Your still nutty. But aren't we all. If we lived in a sane world it would be boring as heck.

I never realized how violent they were and I guess I still don't pay very close attention. I figure I turned out ok watching it and didn't go postal or anything. I think Annika will be ok watching them also. It all comes back to the home life. there is nothing worse then violence on TV being blamed for society's problems. JMO though.

Insanemomof3 replied:
I completely agree.

punkeemunkee'smom replied:

So which was it you told the child this and know the parents would have been unhappy OR you told the child and the parents and they agreed???

Insanemomof3 replied: Who cares? It is past....lets drop it and move on to other things that may be more constructive and less judgemental?

cameragirl21 replied:
lol, abbie, i can always count on you to instigate something and while i rarely respond to your posts for this very reason, for kicks, i'll go ahead and indulge your provocation.
see, this is how it works--when i was babysitting, the parents were not home, and at the time, i was not sure how they'd feel about what i said, not because they disagree with me about Native Americans because most people with a conscience, especially those who can relate to the situation (this family was Jewish, i hope you can make that connection) will feel the same way i do about Native Americans and will agree that the subject needs to be discussed and not glossed over. but rather, i wasn't sure if the parents would have appreciated my bursting their daughter's bubble about the pseudo magic of her favorite movie du jour.
however, when the parents got home, and this was after i told the children and after they were both asleep, i told them about the discussion they had and they agreed with me.
so what i knew, or thought came beforehand and what i learned to be the truth, after the parents returned home happened afterward and knowledge passed over after a situation takes precedence over assumptions made beforehand, when one doesn't know for sure but can only surmise.
do you understand now?
eta--just want to say thanks to all of you who stuck up for me here and via PM. it really is amazing how such a big deal can be made out of nothing.

MommyToAshley replied: It really is ridiculous that I have to close a thread about Disney movies because no one can get along. We haven't had these problems in the past and I hope people can move past this phase and get along.