Child murders baby - Discussion

boyohboyohboy wrote: I wanted to discuss something that has been going on in my town involving a co worker. This has been in our newspaper this week and the comments surprised me, and thought I would like see your views.

My co-worker took her 11 month old son to the sitter. The story is the sitter puts the baby to sleep in a basement bedroom and shuts the door. She is then upstairs doing something, no one knows what. I don't mean to assume she was doing anything wrong. She could have been caring for the other preschool kids in her care. There was a 7yr old and 9yr old who go to the basement and the 9yr old picks up the crying baby. She starts to shake the baby repeatedly and then force ably throws the baby back into the crib. She tells the 7yr old if she tells she will hurt her. She then shuts the bedroom door. Later the two girls go back in and find the baby making weird noises trying to breath. Again the 9 yr old shuts the door and tells no one. At some point the babysitter goes to get the baby, who is barely breathing and his lips are blue. She starts calling the moms cell phone. The mom is a nurse she can't answer right away. 12 mins. Go by before the mom can answer and the sitter tells the mom, she can't wake him from his nap and she should come. She immediately speeds to him. She finds the sitter standing in the yard holding the limp baby. The mom takes the baby and starts CPR begging the sitter to help her. She asked her to call 911. The sitter refused. She said, there is no need for that. And never calls. The mom has to stop CPR and go to her car to call for help.

The baby is flown to a pediatric Hosp. But he has severe brain swelling and is brain dead. He remains on life support for a week before his parents can let him go.

This happened last aug. Until this week nothing had been done. These parents have been barely getting by waiting for justice for their son.
I don't know exactly why.

Today, the jury for the coroners inquest found enough evidence to suggest a third degree murder charge for the 9yr old girl and involuntary manslaughter for the sitter.

The comments these last few days in the paper were things like the 9yr old was to young to know right from wrong or have responsibility. They felt she shouldn't be held legally responsible.
Do you think the child should face a criminal sentence for what she did?

The other issue was, there was a large majority of people who felt the sitter didn't hurt the child. Meaning she didn't physically cause the baby's injuries. She had a policy that the kids were not to pick up the babies. She was unlicensed and had five children in her care that day. The woman is 65 herself. It's believed she didn't call 911 because she didn't want to get caught running this business unlicensed. Some say she was just in shock. There was a 45 min time period from when she found the baby was hurt and when the mom called 911. The neurosurgeon said, that time period might have saved his life if he'd had help.

Do you feel this sentence is to strict for her or should she be held more responsible since she was the care taker?

We are waiting to hear now what the DA is going to do with these suggested charges.

I was just shocked at the community response here.

What do you think?

My3LilMonkeys replied: I believe the sitter should absolutely be held responsible. At the point where she found the baby struggling to breath and turning blue and called the mother, I feel that is the point where 911 should have been called first - before calling the mother. By not calling 911 at that point she was negligent and should be charged.

As for the 9 year old, that is much tougher IMO. I think the fact that she told the 7 year old not to tell clearly shows that she was aware that what she did was wrong. However, children mature at different rates and it is possible that she didn't understand the serious consequences that could come about because of her actions. I feel she should be punished in some way but I'm not sure criminal charges are appropriate at that age.

~Roo'sMama~ replied:
I definitely agree, the sitter should have called 911 immediately after finding the baby, then called the mother. The fact that she refused to call 911 is shocking... I don't care if she was running an illegal daycare and afraid of getting caught, we're talking about a baby's life! And the fact that she might have cost him his life by not calling makes it even worse... she should be put in jail.

For the 9 year old, its hard to say without knowing more about that child you know? I mean was this kid a bully or a trouble maker or just have a mean streak? Or was she normally a sweet kid who wouldn't want to hurt anybody and just got scared? But the fact that she even went in and picked up the baby and shook it, and then told the other kid not to tell or else makes me wonder. Maybe she has some problems at home and has anger issues or whatever, I don't know. But I would be afraid to live in a neighborhood with that kid free to hurt MY kids too, if nothing was done to punish her.

my2monkeyboys replied: How terribly, terribly awful....
I agree that the sitter should be charged - she IS old enough to know better. For her to refuse to call 911 is just dumbfounding.
As for the 9-year-old, something should be done, but I can't say what exactly. I think it would depend a lot on what kind of child she is in general.

I just feel so sad for the parents.

luvbug00 replied: Both sitter and child both did actions that caused this child's death.
Both knowingly hurt and didn't seek help.
Both deserve the charges against them.
And I hope they both are punished appropriately by a jury and judge.
The nine year old definitely knows what she did. I hope she gets help mentality along with her juvenile detention time.

mummy2girls replied: I feel the sitter should be held responisble for the fact that she found the baby in the playpen/crib with blue lips and then told the mom there is no need for 911. That time frame of 45 could saved the child. And when you are paid to care for kids you ahve to know what and where they are at ALL times! For her to let the kids get out of sightf or so long and into the basement is uncalled for AND being the child is on a diff level of the house and so young there should of been a monitor in teh bedroom and if there was one she would of heard the girls go in there and heard the noise of the child being thrown back into the crib. And if there was a monitor and this lady heard it and did noithing then yes that adds to her guilt for sure!

As for the child... Yes she should have some punishment. She obviously new some of the consequences that would happen for doing what she did by threatning that other child not to say anything. But she may not of known the Real consequence of what she did. She shouldnt get away with that. Im not sure if criminal charges shoudl be done but something should. If Jenna did that with one of my dayhome children then yes i would expec t some consequence and that may seem harsh but thats how i feel...

I keep hearing stories like this and even a friend of my SIL was chraged with shaken baby syndrom with one of her dayhome children and she denys doing it but medical evidence shows she did.. I am tempted to install cameras in the nap rooms and ever room of teh house im with the kids...

mummy2girls replied:
I agree... one of my ex-dayhome children was 5 when in my care. I terminated because the mom was just not respecting me or my dayhome. The mom blew up and i never heard from her for a year. Well she contacted me again and apologized but i refuse to take her chiuld back even though she begs too. This child was recently diagnosed with ODD. She is very agrresive to her mom and moms boyfriend, and harms the dogs and other children. I dont want that in my dayhome for safety issues... This child is on meds, going through therapy and is in a BI class because of this at school. This child is 7 almost and she knows teh consequence of what this child did... So who knows that 9 year old may of known the true results...

cameragirl21 replied: I haven't read the other replies so it's possible someone may have already said what I am about to say but I am not convinced the 9 year old is responsible...if MY 9 year old did something like that or any 9 year old in my care, I would have called 911 myself, not called the mom...in a sitch like this one, you don't have a lot of time and have to think and move quickly and the sitter's handling of the whole thing is suspicious and I wouldn't be surprised if she put the children up to taking the blame because they'd be less likely to be punished in the legal system.
I also can't imagine a 9 year old shaking a baby unless the 9 year old has something seriously wrong with him/her. And why would they go to the basement to deal with a crying baby...that is not their problem.
Idk if the sitter is responsible but if the story about the 9 year old is true, I still say the sitter should be held responsible because she was the adult in charge at the time and also because she failed to call 911 or attend to the situation.

jcc64 replied: I think a 9 yr old may know "right from wrong" in a basic, 9 yr old sense, as in, "If I do something wrong, I will get in trouble." But a child this age does not have the cognitive development to fully understand the gravity of her actions, particularly in a legal sense. The child should be remanded to counseling, and LOTS of it for a long period of time. But punishment, as in juvenile detention, is not appropriate for a child this age.

As for the daycare provider, yes, she should be held responsible. If not her, then who? She shouldn't have had the child in such a remote location where these children were able to have unsupervised access, and she should have called 911 immediately. No question about it.

How very tragic for all involved.

Boo&BugsMom replied: My oldest is almost 9. He knows right from wrong, and he knows harming someone is wrong. I don't see how a 9 year old would not know they are harming a baby in this instance. I don't think the 9 year old should be tried as an adult, but I do think she should be held responsible to a degree. I think at this age their reality is skewed a bit, and she may not know to the extent of what she had done...but she obviously knew she was harming the baby and yes should be held responsible for her actions.

The sitter...well, first off...I don't care how nice her basement is, I would not put a baby to sleep in a basement or allow someone to put my baby to sleep in a basement room (unless the basement was specifically used for daycare and set up that way). If the baby was crying and this was happening, why didn't the sitter hear what was going on? This leads me to believe that this basement room is not the best spot for a baby to take a nap! I watch my friend's 8 month old. While she is here she takes a nap in our bedroom on the second floor in a pack n play. I don't even let my kids upstairs while she is napping so she can nap in peace and quiet. I can also hear a pin drop in that room from the living area where I am. I want to make sure she is safe at all times and I can hear everything at all times. This situation leads me to believe that the sitter could not easily hear what was going on in the basement room...which IMO, is not reasonable accomodations for an infant (or any child).

Do I think the sitter should be charged? Had she called 911 right away and did everything possible, I would not hesitate to say no. Things happen. Accidents happen, and sometimes BIG accidents happen. Everyone is human. However, she outright refused to call 911 when the mom asked her to and she was being irresponsible by letting the child nap where he did (IMO). To a degree, yes she should be charged. I can understand her being in shock, but I don't think that's a valid enough excuse.

coasterqueen replied: It's hard to say on the child. I agree with Jennie that a nine year old should know the difference. I know my 8 year old does. Both my girls have been taught from a VERY early age that babies are breakable, that you have to be very very careful with them or they will "break" and could die from it. Because of this my children have and still are very gentle with babies and other kids in general. This child obviously needs MAJOR counseling.

The sitter -- definitely deserves fault. She refused to call 911.

luvbug00 replied:
exactly. there is no way this kid had no clue what she was doing. she told the other kid not to tell. In other words she knew she was gonna get into trouble.
They are both at fault, the kid needs help badly...