Close call with the dog - Advice? Long post

luvmykids wrote: I don't mean to sound like an idiot but we've never had neighbors before so I don't know "etiquette" for issues like this.

Today the kids and I were playing in the back yard and the little boy next door poked his head over the wall to say hi. Bogie, our lab, freaked out and tore over, jumped up, and snapped at his face. Grady, the neighbor, moved fast and I'm not sure Bogie could've actually reached him had he stayed, but it scared the crap out of me.

What I want to know is this:

Do I call the mom and tell her about it, and that Grady probably shouldn't do that? That he can call for the kids in the yard just don't lean over the fence?

Also, if you were the other parent, would you be expecting us to do something about the dog? Like chain him or something? He can't actually get over the fence, we are 100% sure of that. But I'm afraid Grady, being 5, might not realize how important it is for him not to do that again and that next time something might happen.

Also, I could be completely naive, but are labs known for this kind of stuff? We got him thinking he'd be mellow, which he is for us, but he's a pretty fierce guard dog, I have to lock him up before I can ever answer the door, and even if it's someone he knows, like my mom or our friends, he takes a lot of calming down. He seems waaaaay overprotective/guard dog-ish for a lab.

TIA

luvmykids replied: Ok, here is what I expected our lab to be, guess we got a lemon. He's super aggressive towards other dogs.

True Labrador Retriever temperament is as much a hallmark of the breed as the "otter" tail. The ideal disposition is one of a kindly, outgoing, tractable nature; eager to please and non-aggressive towards man or animal. The Labrador has much that appeals to people; his gentle ways, intelligence and adaptability make him an ideal dog. Aggressiveness towards humans or other animals, or any evidence of shyness in an adult should be severely penalized. (Show rules)

BAC'sMom replied: I think I would call and or contact the mother of the child. Maybe set up a play day, while I was talking with her I would inform her of what with happen with the dog and the fence. Just let her know!

Our last Lab Logan was protective she barked at people who came in the yard, but she never acted agressive. But my DH had a Lab when he was growing up that loved Meter readers. He would tree them everytime!

I think both of you got Lemons!

kit_kats_mom replied: Well, I'm not much of a dog person but if it was my kid who almost got bit, I'd probably appreciate you letting me know so that I could impress upon my child not to do it again.

If I were you, I'd check out my homeowners insurance to see if you would be covered if something did ever happen and then I'd look into obedience training.

luvmykids replied:
He's been through it as a puppy, and is very well trained in every other way. Does he just sound overly aggressive, as in a character flaw? Or like it is a training issue?

luvbug00 replied: Very unusual for the breed they are normaly very "people dogs" I'm sure a little training should fix your situationa nd I wouldn't think you have to chain him as long as you are 100% sure he can't jump the fence.

A&A'smommy replied: Um well we have actually been on the other side of the fence.. so to speak and our neighbors came over and talked to us and that made us feel better about things. As for labs they are VERY protective.. but I would definitly talk to them about it!

luvmykids replied:
Thanks, I'm trying to find a "refresher" course right now. It really puzzles me too, I've never heard of a lab like this. We purposely avoided several other breeds for exactly this behavior!

punkeemunkee'smom replied: If I were the child's mom I would be upset if my child came home and told me what happened and you didn't call me. We had labs almost the entire time I was growing up and only had one that became aggressive-she did not stay at our house after the first time she lunged at a neighborhood child....They are not supposed to be that aggressive toward people (children especially) and IMO they are too big a breed to take a chance with!

luvmykids replied: OK, I just talked to Grady's mom. She was super nice about it, I told her how worried I am if it happened again and that I didn't know what to do about Bogie, etc. She was totally understanding and said she didn't blame him (the dog) and that he just thought someone he doesn't know was trying to get in his yard. HOWEVER I told her I don't think that was ok, regardless, Grady's a kid leaning over the fence for petes sake. So she's going to tell Grady not to get up there and wanted to come over so Grady and Bogie could "meet" under supervision. But I'm nervous about that, I'm waiting until DH gets home.

I just worry that it's a sign of over protectiveness, and like Abbie said, he's HUGE, at least 80 pounds. I can't make him budge when he's sitting, I really doubt I could restrain him off if he was after somebody.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I don't know what to do or if I'm too worried about it, but I did talk to her and she was really great about it. So that alone I feel better about.

CantWait replied: I have a lab also and he's super sweet, and non-aggressive for the most part. I'm glad that you talked to the boy's mom to let her know so that she could talk to her son about not doing that again. The only time my lab gets even close to aggresive is when there is someone on our property. Otherwise he's great, and really loves kids. The little boy properly just caught him offgaurd and he reacted to it. You know your dog best, and if he's not normally so aggressive I wouldn't worry about it. He is a dog though, so his number natural instinct is to protect his property.

aspenblue1 replied: If you are scared that you can not control him then you definately need to take him back to obedience class. I would definately do some desentising him. Labs are not usually an agressive breed.

mom21kid2dogs replied: If I'm understanding correctly the "wall" is a fence or enclosure. If so, Bogie's behavior is not viewed as aggression but rather protection. We've had fenced dogs for years. Even the most calm, serene fenced dog is apt to bite/lunge/act aggressive if someone interferes with his/her space. Fenced dogs become VERY territorial around the fence~you'll see it from terriers to bassesets~it's just what happens when we fence dogs. Definately talk to the mom. Regardless of any dogs' "aggression propensity" if it has teeth it can bite. Another thing you might try (especially if you think this will continue to be an issue with a 5 year old who might not get it) is to either add a solid fence to that side or get an underground invisible fence system and have it installed a foot or two from the fence. You could chain him, too, if it continues to be a problem. An animal behavior specialist (way more specialized than just a dog trainer, generally) might also be able to work with you to train out the behavior . . .might.

luvmykids replied:
It's a cinder block wall about 5 feet tall, the little boy was standing on something on his side and leaning over into our yard. The mom said the same thing, that Bogie thought someone was climbing over the wall into his yard ...

Another issue DH thought of is that Bogie has not been fenced in until 2 months ago, we lived on 15 acres and he roamed freely, so he may be extra protective in a smaller, confined area like our yard now.

Looking at his behavior in general, he really is not aggressive, just very protective. Once we convince him we're ok with someone, he is too. And he's awesome with our kids, I've never worried about him hurting them at all.

I am taking him to school though, he listens to DH much better than me but I'm the one who deals with him more since DH is always gone, so a refresher course with ME as the boss might enable me to give him better cues.

C&K*s Mommie replied: BEST of WISHES!!!

And as Cheryl mentioned maybe you could try the specialist, if the dog obedience does not work enough for him to obey you, as well as your DH.

CAMSMOM1 replied: luvmykids Posted on Feb 27 2006, 11:14 PM


That's exactly right. He thought someone was climbing into HIS yard, and was showing this by acting territorial.

There is a BIG difference between being "aggressive" & "protective". I truely believe Bogie was being protective. And this is very common for Labs, German Shepards, ect. They are VERY loyal to their masters, and will protect them if nessassary. He thought someone was coming over the fence to harm the kids, and wasn't aware it was the little boy. IF he was an aggressive/mean animal, he would've bitten the child. I know you said you are 100% sure that he can't jump over the fence, but I know if he was motivated enough, he could. But he didn't, because he realize he made his point, and didn't feel the boy was a threat, after he saw him.

Our dog, Honey, is a German Shepard/Chow mix. Very protective, and loyal breeds. She is so gental and loving with our son. But if anyone comes to the door, or someone she doesn't know...you'd be afraid of her. Not only will she bark her tail off, but she seems very threatening. She is the best of both worlds, a great family pet (actually she's like one of our children) and also a great watch dog. And I'm glad she is protective. One time the meter man came in our backyard unannouced, and our dog went off on him. She cornered him, had her hair standing up, and wouldn't allow him to move. She never bit him, but she meant business. I had to pull/drag her away. I talked to the meter man a few min later, I was totally embarrassed and shocked, but he said, "Ma'am, you have a good dog. She never bit me, she just let me know that I was in her territory, and she wasn't going to let me harm you guys." And I wont forget that. That made me feel good that I had a dog that not only was going to protect us, but not harm someone at the same time. KWIM?

But please, do NOT chain up your dog. We had an old stray dog we adopted (not Honey, this was another dog) And he would jump the fence. So we had to chain him up. It only made him a mean, mean, mean dog...and he eventually broke the chain anyways, and was picked up by the SPCA. No dog deserves to be chained IMO, and it doesn't give you the result you are looking for.

If anything, buy a invisiable fence, that will go around your property. My Grandpa uses them for his cattle. One time they run into that fence, is there last time...and they never mess with it again. It's a better alternative, than a chain.

You did the right thing, but talking to his Mother. And she seems to be very understanding. And now the boy & his Mom know.

I really don't see your dog as a threat or aggressive. He was just protecting the family.

C&K*s Mommie replied: ITA... never chain a dog, for any reason. There are always better options than that.

luvmykids replied: I really don't think I could chain him, if it came to that I'd rather give him away. I already feel bad for cooping him up in a yard after he's been raised a country dog with all the room in the world to run. But it's temporary so we're hoping to be able to stick it out until we move again.

moped replied: I hope everything works out for you with the dog - I personally would freak out if that happened to my kid, but I don't trust dog, any dog really, especially around my child.

I love dogs, but I love Jack more............LOL

Oh and I love LABS!!!!!!!!!!!! I am sure he will shape up very soon for you!

mom21kid2dogs replied:
Let me present a scenario, Nicole, for you to consider. Bailey, our 70 lb Lab mix, could easily jump our 4 ft fence and did so routinely. Stephen & I spent a few weekends last year adding an additional 18" to the fence. To little avail~he'd just use the picnic table or a chair to jump it. Not only was this nusiance behavior to us and our neighbors, but a HIGHLY dangerous activity. He had poor response to the "come" call (despite the fact that we skipped obedience school with him and went straight to an animal behaviorist because he was such a challenging dog) and saw chasing as a game. We could not get him back in once he was out. We live in a small town neighborhood and a block from the high school. You can just imagine how fast the cars go past the front of my house. We were terrified he'd get hit & killed or cause an accident and get someone else killed. We bought a tie out and a 50 ft chain and when he was out he was on it. It was to save his life and there is nothing inhumane about that. He was walked 1-2 hours EVERY day of his life for exercise, lived in our house, slept in our beds and totally shared our lives. He was on a chain in the backyard to do his business or if we were out and he wanted to be out with us. It was the only safe option for the dog. Personally, I would prefer him to be safe and on a chain than dead in front of my house.

jcc64 replied: I have 2 words for you- "Dog Whisperer". It's a show that runs on the National Geographic channel 8pm on Fri nights, and repeated throughout the week. This guy, Cesar Millan, is absolutely AMAZING. I've had dogs my whole life, and I learn something new each and every show I watch. EVERY dog has the potential to be aggressive, even mushy labs. I have a 90 lb lab mix, and while she is an incredibly wimpy and docile dog, occasionally if a jogger passes my house and she is outside, she will give chase. If the jogger exhibits fear or aggression (which is certainly understandable when a big dog is coming at you), it forces Bertha into the role of the dominant figure, and she will in fact exhibit uncharacterstically aggressive behavior. The point is, dogs don't think like people, they think like pack animals, and it's our job to prevent that behavior from coming into conflict with those around us.
I HIGHLY reccommend anyone that has a dog to watch this show, you will learn ALOT, trust me. If you don't have cable, he has dvds, books, etc. Just google his name- Cesar Millan. He's awesome with any and all dog problems you might encounter.

MommyToAshley replied: I don't know much about dogs, but I think I would definitely talk to your neighbor. The little boy may not even have told his Mom what happened. Or, he may have told her but not the whole story. I would tell her just what you said... you know the dog can't get over the fence, but you want to make sure Grady doesn't come over the fence without one of you there to control the dog. I know I would appreciate it if my neighbor approached me and had a similar conversation.

TANNER'S MOM replied:
Off subject but I am dying to know...

Ann,

We have a small farm and I have cattle. I have ran a hot wire with some high AMP voltage that wouldn't keep cattle in..especially the bulls when a cow or heifer was calling there name and saying Hello Boys how are you?? And the same with some stud horses I have had. And a few Male Donkeys...well Jacks. Because there skin is so tough. I have better luck with horses because they can smell the current..but cattle seem to be really dumb animals..and they don't learn as fast. They just hit the fence and come back for more. They just really don't feel it alot. So I was wondering if you could tell me about this "Invisible fence" and how it works. Cause it might help on my small farm? I have wasted many nights getting cows up from a neighbors farm across the holler when a heifer was in.. or chasing horses when a mare was..and thats with alot of Amps

Oh a little story.. my best friend.. has 19 horses..and she is a cowgirl now. SHe is a tuff old bird. She has a few stud horses and keeps them away from her mares until its time to breed with a high amp Hot wire and barb wire fence. She went out to feed..and was messing with with something... she usually turns the fence off..but was busy and didnt take the time. She bent over and somehow..hit the very top of her head on the hot wire.. and it knocked her out cold in the middle of the stud pasture.. It is funny now but not at the time. She actually laid there..cause even she came too her body was still tingly and she didn't feel right.. all wobbly kneed! I don't think it wouldve hurt her as bad.. had it not been on the top of the head.. but low and hehold she has had some stud go thru that same fence..

BTW: It did knock the PEE outa her..lol Like I said funny now..but not then.

punkeemunkee'smom replied:


I was thinking the same thing! We need one of those too! I have chased many a bull out of our back yard horn blowing on the pick-up And they just keep coming back for more 'hot-shot' action when they are being loaded....Your grandpa must have some smart cows-or we have some dumb ones

Cal&Camsmom replied: Hi! I haven't posted on here forever, but I wanted to add my 2 cents. We have a neighbor that has an 80lb. male lab. When we moved in here 2 yrs. ago my son went over to their house, they have a son my sons age. Well, the kids went into the backyard & the dog attacked my son. He had bruises & lacerations along with a bite mark on his arm. It looked worse than it was but he's now terrified of dogs & he's 10. The dog is a nice dog, I think he basically wanted to play & jumped on my son who is very light, & just decided to knock him down. Luckily his mom was right there because the other kid couldn't pull him off, he's too heavy.

I don't think they've ever had him in obdience training, the dog is left outside 24/7 & with 2 teenage sons they really don't play much with him.

Anyway, I used to want a lab because I thought they were good "kid" dogs but now I'm looking at getting a smaller dog so that I can control it if something were to happen.


Jenn
ds '95
dd '03
& EDD #3 5/06

Kirstenmumof3 replied: Our dog Sandy (she is a lab, sheppard mix) is notorous for jumping the fence, jumping up on us and chasing cars as they drive down the alley. I would think if you just called the mother and explained to her that your dog usually isn't like that and that you will try to make sure it doesn't happen again, they will probably understand. I would also mention to the parent to not have their child lean up on the fence. I hope it goes well for you.

On the other side as a parent I would just expect a simple explanation. Most people are very understanding.

coasterqueen replied: It looks like you are doing all the right things. I'd definitely check your homeowner's insurance as well for protection if the dog does bite someone.

Right now in Illinois the legislature is having a field day with dog laws. There is legislation out there now trying to make the owners pay, meaning fines and/or jail time, etc. It's serious business if these laws pass.

Not sure what laws you have in your state or if there is legislation in the making, but I'd definitely know what your situation is if something does happen.

edited for spelling

CAMSMOM1 replied: TANNER'S MOM Posted: Feb 28 2006, 11:30 AM



And invisiable fence is kinda of like a "hot wire". The kind my grandpa has is very high voltage. I believe, and don't quote me on this, that he ran his along his bobwire fence. It has the sensors and any time a cow would get about a foot close to the fence, it would send out this eletric waves that would shock the cattle. No, it doesn't harm the cattle, it just shocks them enough to scare them. KWIM? He did this because one time a calf was tring to crawl underneath the bobwire, and she got her head stuck in it so bad, and he was unable to get her out, so I'm sure you can guess what happened to her. He didn't want to lose anymore cattle, like you said, the hot wire sometimes doesn't work. I'll have to call him up and ask him where he bought it, and who makes it.

CAMSMOM1 replied: CAMSMOM1 Posted: Feb 28 2006, 03:42 AM
We thought the same way as she did. We put our dog on a chain thinking he would'nt be able to jump the fence, and we would feel safer. Our old dog not only got mean, but he yanked the chain out of a brick wall, jumped the fence anyways, and was gone. That's why I was saying, NOT to get a chain. (even though I know you probably won't, I just saw a couple people saying that to you.) Of course this is JMHO....but for some, it might work out. It just didn't for us.

I really don't think you should be worried about your dog. Like I said, it's very natural for your dog to want to protect his territory. And if he wanted to harm that child, he could've....but he didn't. Like I said, there is a big difference between being aggressive and protective. You know in your heart you have a good dog, he's good with your children. He's just adjusting to his new home/yard. Give him a little while with it.

jem0622 replied: That is so tough. I would talk with your neighbors and suggest that he not do that (popping his head over the fence) but in the same breath I would tell them what I was doing to prevent it from happening again (chaining or keeping dogs indoors).

We have had labs in the family and they are not known to be mean. The dog must have sensed threat or danger. Unfortunately dogs cannot deliniate size and such, which is scary.

My sister has the invisible fence for her dogs and I do feel it is a better way to go for you and for the dog(s).

TANNER'S MOM replied:
Its the exact something we use here.. You just run it in your barb wire..it's a thin line of wire that runs currents. It's the same..nothing real invisible though. It will work for a dog like you were saying...

And you are right..they do have what you pulsesatures..spelling I have no idea..but they pulse kind of.. instead of a steady stream of current..the current it's at a higher AMP all at once..

But I felt like you meant that wire alone.

TANNER'S MOM replied: I just wanted to add that this kind of fence..is not recommanded for little boys who like to pee outside.. or dogs who hike there legs to pee...

lolololol

Don't ask I don't want to tell that story!

luvmykids replied: Mel and Abbie,
I have a hilarious stray bull story for you guys but it's long and I have to go ... I'll try to post it later.

punkeemunkee'smom replied:
Gotta love those stray bulls/cows/horses