Complaint about PC

Bamamom wrote: This thread will probably be deleted and I will probably be suspended but I feel it's worth it to have my opinion heard.

Several times in the last few weeks I have noticed overly aggressive behavior on the part of the moderators. In several threads there have been threats of locking the thread if the conversation continues down certain paths (see longest thread ever for a particular example) and intense questioning of individuals in open threads.

I understand that the mods have a responsiblity to try to keep trolls out - but I believe they should question individuals in private messages or on email. If they don't respond, then suspend their account until they clear up the matter to your satifaction - but don't harrass them in front of the whole group. That's very intimidating for some people. Especially if they have been away from the boards and come back to find a whole bunch of questions to respond to - most of them posted by mods.

As for the directions the threads take - if the conversation is sexually explicit I can understand moving it to the P&I board but other than that I believe people should be left alone to discuss what they want. So poop was being discussed - so what? No one is being forced to read or take part in any discussion - if they are reading a thread and encounter material they find objectionable they should leave that thread. Even though I wasn't taking part in the discussion I still felt like a reprimanded child. Not what I'm looking for by being part of this community.

I do appreciate the work the moderators do. I know it's a hard, often thankless, job. I just wanted to let my opinion on these matters be heard and I hope you give the others in the community the chance to respond so that we can have a group consensus.

Thanks for hearing me out.

mummy2girls replied: ok ill respond because I am a mod. The reason behind me saying i was going to lock it was because the intent of the longest thread was talking about how poop smells after eating a certain item, or things coming out of bodies as well. This i felt was not a good subject to keep talking about being this is a parenting board. If people want to talk about poop that should be done maby on a different board not a parenting bard.. expecially about how if we drink beer it will smell like beer. plus if we are talking about poop it usually is about our kids and that for sure was not leading towards our kids.. I think there is more better thing to discuss. To me that was pretty gross. And the reason i said it in teh thread was because if i had to pm i would be sitting her pm'ing at least 10 people. Plus its not like I sat here and said it ina rude way... IMO. so i know im the mod your talking about. yes us mods can be strict on certain things but that because we want this board to be a civil one and we try our hardest to make this a fun place to be able to come to to talk about parenting.

Bamamom replied: I didn't really notice who the mod was so please don't take that comment personally. But we all know that things are discussed on the boards that have nothing to do with parenting. Isn't that kind of the point of the general discussion forum and the games forum? I know some of the discussions that I enjoy most have nothing to do with people's kids - but just about who they are as people.

I totally understand why you responded to that in the thread instead of pm-ing everyone. I meant that if there are questions about a personal story then that should be dealt with in private - not in an open thread. Sorry for any confusion there.

luvmykids replied: I'm not a mod but I do know that the board has advertisers that may not approve of certain discussions. There was a similar topic long ago that was closed, not out of spite or personal opinion but simply respecting boundaries of the people who contribute to the financing of the board.

If I'm remembering wrong someone can correct me

Jamison'smama replied: I will respond with very little specific knowledge of the particular items you mentioned. I will say these things. Mods are human. We try to keep the board free from those people who are dishonest--we've missed things before and let things slide and it has come back to bite us. Sometimes the questions are just those, questions. Many, many times, questions and statements are made in private--of course no one whould know about that.

As far as locking threads, the board is a PG rated board---we are to be family and young person friendly. If the board starts on a topic that seems to be moving towards less appropriate, we may say--hey guys, less move this in a different direction--that is the job of a moderatator. I have not read that particular thread so I am just shooting from the hip here.

mummy2girls replied:
yes we do talk about thing other than our kids but when a subject starts to talk about how our poop smells it is the mods job to kinda veer it off into a better subject. yes i could of not responded or read the topic after seeing where it was going but i would feel like i wasnt doing my job if i just let it be.

And this is more surrounding the poop thread than anything so i just had to state my point in why i did what i did.

My3LilMonkeys replied: While I completely understand where you are coming from and I definitely agree that people should be able to discuss most anything they want, I can completely understand the warning from the moderator (even though I myself was participating in the discussion). We are able to use this wonderful board for free because of the sponsors and advertisers - so to some extent I can see why the mods need to keep conversations "clean" so that the advertisers will continue to pay for advertising space and the website will stay open.

I think the mods do a wonderful job around here - and if they are occasionally a little harsher than we would like, they're just doing their jobs. I'd rather they warn us about a subject's inappropriateness than just delete posts/threads without warning or explanation(as is done on some other boards I've visited).

mummy2girls replied:
yes that is true and that is another reason why i did it.

mummy2girls replied:
yes thats my reasoning behind why i did it

Bamamom replied: I guess I would have responded more positively if it had been phrased differently - like "Hey guys - lets change topics before we lose a sponsorship" instead of threatening to lock the thread.

Just for the record I didn't know that there had been an issue with that in the past - and I didn't know that our sponsor would care. So I officially change my opinion on that point. Thanks for clearing that up.

So far I'm holding to my point about dealing with things in private instead of questioning people in an open thread. And I guess I might add - mods are a little more intimidating that regular members. They can kick you out so their quesitons seem a little more intimidating for lack of a better word. So when there are 5 questions in a row (and I totally made that number up as an example) from mods it seems more like someone is looking for a hole in your story.

A&A'smommy replied:


I'm not really sure how to phrase this..... we do deal with things privately (always) and when it seems like we are "looking for holes" we probably are not, we are more than likely trying to straighten or figure things out, not trying to publicly out out someone we have rules against that and we DO try our very best to follow them!

luvmykids replied:
You sound really open and sincere to me, I understand where you're coming from and think it's great that you're willing to hear everyone out

A&A'smommy replied:
I agree... if you ever have a complaint again just pm one of us we are more than happy to answer you questions (to an extent there are some things we may not be able to answer for others privacy), or pm dee dee (mommytoashley) or Rod (TLCdad) we want to make sure our members are happy and feel comfortable here!!!

Hillbilly Housewife replied: I'm going to say this - we DO pm members in private. We do everything we can to make sure there isn't just some misunderstanding... and when we get pms from more than one person, we tend, as a group of mods, to try to figure out what exactly is going on.

We try to do this as privately as possible.

But when the member with whom we are trying to clear things up with just plain ignores the mods questions and then dissapears... well... we might get a little more agressive in trying to get answers. You would think that it would be very easy to just clear up soemting that's been said, if it's a little misunderstanding... but if it's just an outright lie, even if it's a seemingly small one, it's STILL in violation of the TOS, because it's posting fraudulent information.

As for the poop issue - come on... kids' poop questions are one thing - but grown adults, discussing the smell of feces after ingesting certain food items, just for the sake of having a long thread... not only gross, but NOT PG RATED. Which is why it was steered away...not because it's poop. We talk about poop all the time...when it pertains to our children's poop, if they're sick, nasty poop incidents that will make others laugh etc.... not our own smelling like beer.

lovemy2 replied:
I tend to agree here - while I know I am guilty of seemingly being less than nice about my questioning of a certain subject - I did it in the way I did to lets say "try to lighten" up the questioning - it was not meant to offend - it was a very sincere question cause I really didn't understand but I tried to pose it in a funny way rather than come right out and say "you make no sense"....as for the poop thing - I agree too - it was a little gross - albiet (sp?) funny I could see where it could have gotten out of hand and saw nothing wrong with it being steered the other way....

I enjoy this place and to be honest have only recently come to understand what the mods do - sorry I am a bit slow but now that I understand it better I see their job as pretty hard and think they do a great job - I have come to depend on this place and have myself been the focus of a heated discussion that at the time seemed pretty rough but the more I read it over and over it made more sense to me and I didn't feel as threatened - sometimes it is human nature to answer quickly before thinking - especially when on line - it isn't the same as sitting around a table and chatting face to face - it leaves alot more openings for false information and an inability to get your point across...........

redplaydoh replied: I don't have anything to add which hasn't been stated before. Sometimes I've felt like it's a little too stict here, that we're all adults... but "I" didn't make the rules, and what rules are in place seem to be working wonderfully or this wouldn't be a board that we all feel comfortable making our place here. That said, the moderators do a fantastic job and are put in spots that I wouldn't want to find myself in.
I'm sure they don't like confronting someone about some inconsistencies in their stories, but they do it to protect all of us here... for the good of THIS community.

Rules are rules and if someone doesn't feel comfortable abiding by them, or feels bashed by having to answer some questions then maybe this board isn't for them. There are many other places to fit in on the internet with different rules and different ways of controlling the forums, perhaps one of the other places would suit them better. I myself love coming here and knowing it is a very protected place.

lisar replied:
Yes I agree. The mods do, do things in PM. I have gotten a few. I am no angel on this board. I have gotten a few PM's from mods asking me to take it down a notch.

lovemykiddies replied: Hey--I don't post here a lot but I just wanted to make a comment while we're on the subject. I lurk occasionally.

I love the fact the the mods don't allow things to get out of hand. And I'm glad that they try to get to the bottom of things when there is a problem with a troll. I remember reporting someone a while back and they took care of it very shortly after (so I'm assuming others complained and they checked things out).

But I do know what Bamamom is saying, to a degree. I have stopped posting here for what is probably a silly reason--I'm afraid people will think I'm a troll! Sometimes it seems like people are kind of ganged up on when their story doesn't fit, and I would imagine it would hurt their feelings. I know I'm not a typical poster--I do not have children, but am a proud baby-sitter and definitely a future mother. But since I'm not "typical" I feel a little left out and fear my story might be questioned.

Anyways, I know this is the "Parenting Club," so it is a site for parents. So my "complaint" doesn't hold much validity.

On another note, I think most of the posters here are really sweet and seem like great people. And I like the mods a lot too.

CantWait replied: All I can say is that thank goodness that a thread of the way poop smells after ingesting certain items was deleted, how absolutely disgusting and really not the most mature of conversations.

I will also say that the mods do a very good job pm'ing instead of bashing members on the forums.

love my kiddies, all you have to do to help verify who you are is post a picture with yourself holding a PC sign. Especially after you have your kidlets. It helps a lot to verify who you are. There is a special thread pinned at the top of GD with everyone's photos.

moped replied:
I would like to say something about the "hole in your story"....I have been here a long time and have gotten to know people only to find out down the road they were a total fake and i was upset - there are lots of fakes out there and the mods have to do what they do best. If people get offended by questions then I have to wonder what they are hiding.

Mods are not intimidating, just doing a job.

Bamamom replied: Thanks for all your input guys. I have to agree with lovemykiddies - even though I have kids I too have wondered if others think I'm a troll cause I don't post as much as some. I've been a member for 18 months but only have 360 someodd posts. So I admit to being a bit of a lurker but mostly that's because I only post if I have something meaningful to add. Since I'm only on PC once a day or so often the topics in the threads seem to be pretty well covered and I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said. That's why I'm more active in the games like Person Below Me or the Longest Thread ever.

I personally don't put up pictures cause this is an open forum. I don't want to hang up pictures of myself and my kids at the mall where only a few hundred people might see them so I sure don't want to put them on the Internet where millions can see them (or steal them - lots of pedophiles take the faces of one kid and put them on the body of another. Without a "identifiable victim" they can't be prosecuted for having child porn - my dh is in law enforcement and deals with this so it freaks me out - sorry!)

I agree that the mods can and should question - but in private. And if there is an issue in an open thread maybe they should just be a little more aware of how many of them are asking questions at once - it just sometimes appears to be a little over the top. Just my opinion. To me it creates an atmosphere of distrust - which is not condusive to open conversation. It make people like me and lovemykiddies clam up even though we have nothing to hide.

gr33n3y3z replied:
that thought never crossed my mind not even once about the 2 of you

TheOaf66 replied:
no not you lisa

lovemy2 replied:
Yeah come on Lisa - are you sure the pms went to the right person

Chase-N-Paige replied: As a newbie I know what I say won't have as much validity as a member with a ton and a half of posts but quite frankly I think if the mods try to do things privately and then need to take things publically if their attempts are ignored is a valid process. Sure, if I was being the person questioned it may ruffle my feathers but it would also cause me to stand up for myself and say, yes - here are the facts and in doing so validate my statements. By hiding behind something, you are showing that you must have something to be hidden.

Also, I think that we all have different lives and circumstances and just because yours may or may not fit into the "typical" mold doesn't mean you shouldn't feel like you can't belong. It is just when a piece of the puzzle that makes up your picture of life belongs to someone else is the problem. I hope that makes sense. I have been a part of a different board in the past when I found out that a person wasn't what they said they were and it isn't pretty for anyone. Lots of hurt feelings and mistrust spoil things quickly.

Alli

jcc64 replied: As someone whose presence here in the past has been questioned based on posting habits, I don't think Bamamom's concerns about being incorrectly labelled a troll are completely illegitimate.
To be more specific, I was suspected of only being here to stir up the pot because it appeared that I was often embroiled in controversial posts. The fact of the matter was- my politics and social views just happened to be very different from many of the other members at the time, and I found myself in the position of having to defend my views time and again.
I've been a member here almost 5 years now, have made many good friends, and my legitimacy here is no longer questioned. However, I do feel the paranoia here can bubble over from time to time. Trolls are part of life on the net, and though I do greatly appreciate the efforts of the mods to keep things "real" around here, I also feel that new members are not always greeted as warmly or as openly as I would have liked back when I was a newbie. We have driven away some very decent people along with the trolls- Jennifer being at the top of my list, but there have been many others.
I don't know what's going on with Mommy2Isabella and what that whole inquisition is about, and it's really none of my business. And the poop thing- I must have missed that one too, and while bodily functions do not in any way offend me- I actually happen to find potty humor pretty funny- I respect the right of others to feel differently. I guess I subscribe to the notion that we are all adults here, and the discussion of poop is nowhere near as offensive as half the stuff one can see on network tv at any hour of the day.
Anyway, I guess the point of this rambling diatribe is that I think we need to figure out how much freedom of expression and/or friendliness we want to give up in an effort to keep this a completely troll free board. Yes, we've all been "duped" before, and while it kind of made us feel a little stupid, how much was really lost? They came, they fooled us, they got busted, they got kicked out. We all lived to tell the tale. I guess I'd rather accept the possibility of a few trolls here and there, in return for a more welcoming, less paranoid vibe here. That's just my opinion, and I'm sure it's divergent from those of many others here. But what else is new, right?
Kudos to the mods for all their hard work. This is not a criticism of you or the work you do on our behalf. It's more a request to the rest of the members to refrain from "piling on" when a suspicion arises. That is really distasteful and unnecessary to me.

Kaitlin'smom replied: Okay you know what I find ironic, this whole complaint. If some are so concerned about issues being dealt with in privet and not publicly they why was this posted? I am quite sure it was not brought to a mods attention or even the admins.

there is no reason people, members, mods, admins cant question a member in a post when something does not make sence to them, sure constantly repeting the same questions over and over is annoying and most the time unnessary, but trying to get clarifing answers, there is nothing wrong with that.

mummy2girls replied:
i agree...

holley79 replied: Well I have been here for a while. I have seen "trolls" that I didn't know were "trolls". I knwo for a fact a lot of people have been questioned privately at times and if you have nothing to hide then it's an easy fix.

If you don't feel comfortable posting a picture of you and your children but you are questioned you can always PM it to a mod or admin and they will most defiantly vouch for you. I still haven't posted a picture of Annika and I with a sign but it's not because I don't want to it's I dont' think about it.

I like PC a lot. There are a lot of great people here but we have all been played upon so badly we have a hard time believing someone when it looks like they are being deceptive. I hope newbies aren't feeling left out and I'm sorry if you have. I'm sorry if you have fely ganged up on also.

Crystalina replied:

I agree with this. I don't know what's going on with any of these recent problems so I'm not talking about anything/anyone specifically. I think when someone is constantly questioned in public (whether they need to be or not) others start questioning the person as well. When people see this done in several different threads they start making their own mind up about that person and when the truth is found out (in favor of the person) you still kind of look sideways when that person posts something. We all do it and I really doubt anyone who says they don't is being honest. Even if it's the slightest doubt it's still there. Then the person always feels like they have to explain everything they do ( to seem valid) or they clam up and barely respond to anyone for fear of tripping over their words. The mods and Admin may realize it was a misunderstanding and forget about it and move on but this is a huge site and the other members reading it may not.

I'm not saying that the mods are doing good or bad but I do know that others make up their minds when questioning starts. I think the mods here are great and the regular members are great as well. *Regular meaning anyone not a mod and not just members that post more.


To sum it up in a pretty package so my post does not seem negative:
The mods at PC are the best.
No specifics were in mind when posting.

lovemykiddies replied:
Well, I will look kind of silly but I'll do it , maybe a pic of me with my dog & parakeets holding the sign. Have most of the trolls in the past not posted their picture or something???

holley79 replied:
ALl it takes is you holding up a sign that says "Hi PC I'm ****" and have someone take a picture. It's quite simple. Trolls don't post their own pictures because majority of the time they are working with "stolen" pictures. Now people can not be trolls but be deceptive and lie about their actual lives. It's quite sad to say the least.

lovemykiddies replied: I think I might do it tonight. It sounds kind of fun, actually.

mysweetpeasWil&Wes replied: I've been so out of the loop...But to chime in, I totally agree with what Jeanne and Crystal said. Not criticizing the mods at all, because you all do an awesome job. But like Crystal said, when regular members start questioning along side a mod's questions, I just don't think it's fair. Reminds me of high school where if your friend hates someone, you follow. There was one post in particular where I saw this happen, where a mod was questioning a poster, and then a member bluntly questioned them too...And it just kept going on and on, with more members sorta "coming down" on this particular person. It's a total snowball effect. I just find it a bit immature and rude. I think it's fine for the MODS to publicly question prospective trolls, but hey, all the rest of us should just stay out of it!! JMHO.

TLCDad replied: Hi all. I believe everything was covered in the thread but I should give an official statement:

1 - Mods are instructed to delete any thread that would be considered offensive to even a small amount of people. Not only is this the most positive thing to do, it is also an agreement we have with our sponsors. And of course without the sponsors I could not afford to keep the website up especially as it continues to grow and more resources (server needs, etc) are needed.

2 - Mods are instructed to always send a PM to a poster when they have a problem with a post or need to ask them something. They are not to completely out some publically however, if someone posts a public message or brings a conversation in a PM to the public, the mods have a right to respond. Which was one of the recent issues.

3 - Mods only have the ability to ban someone if their account is new with few posts. This is so they can remove spammers, etc. They do not have the access to ban members who have been here for awhile. Only myself and MommyToAshley can ban those accounts. We never ban anyone without a good reason. I do not look forward to ever having to do that but, I we do trust the opinion of our mods and if there is enough evidence, I will suspend the account or if warranted permenantly ban.

I know we heavily moderate this forum but, for every complaint about over moderating we get 10 compliments when compared to other websites/forums. I am however concerned about how newbies can be looked at and I try to encourge everyone to welcome them, especially new parents. This is why this website was started. If they turn out to be a troll, no biggy they will get caught. We have many methods of doing so.

As for being concerned about posting pictures here, that is a valid concern with the world today and you are absolutely never ever required to do so to be a member. But unfortuantly, websites are not the only place those perpts get pictures.

redchief replied:
Your opinion is just as valid as that of any other member here. These forums exist for the newer members as well as those who have been here for some time. I'm actually glad you brought that up. Sometimes it's difficult to make sure newer folks feel comfortable with the "old gang," and I think this a perfect time to remind everyone that we exist primarily to share our parenting experiences. In many ways that REQUIRES that we welcome and embrace new members else all of our combined experience could well become irrelevant. And that's one old fart's opinion.

I hope I've not come off as snobbish or cruel to new folks.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
This is how I feel.

Personally, on a side note...if someone can not answer a simple question, like "do you have children?"...it makes a person wonder. Nobody has to legitamize why they are here, but if you can't answer just a simple question like that it only makes a person look like a troll. It shouldn't be a big deal, IMO.

julesmom replied:
I feel the same. I have been here since 2004, I think. I'll have to see what the date says once I post this.

Just wanted to add that I agree with the above quote.

And I also don't post pics, mainly for security reasons with this being an open board and all.

edited to add: OK, I've been a member since Jan. 04 and have less then 200 posts!

Bamamom replied:
You said this so much better than I did! You clarified my thoughts - thanks!

Bamamom replied:
The reason I started this thread is that I wanted to see what others thought. I have PM'd concerns to mods in the past and was never responded to. I wanted to get this out in the open where if couldn't be ignored.


Instead of posting again let me just thank TLCDad here for posting the official rational for some of the mods actions. That helped me understand some of the reasoning that certain actions are taken.

gr33n3y3z replied:
Hmmm who did you send the PM's 2 bc I never got any
do you still have the PM's that you sent?

Kaitlin'smom replied:
I never got any either

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Me either. I usually respond, to at the very least acknowledge that I got it...?

Jamison'smama replied: I didn't get any either---I never get pm's

jcc64 replied: Except from me about Jama and Corey's "issues".

Jackie012007 replied: I've been on the other side of the fence, accused of being a troll, and it really sucks. Once one person has made up their mind about you, others follow suit and it's hard to backpedal with evidence when they are jumping at you. I missed the whole M2I thing and apparently this thing too but I have to agree with what a previous poster said - don't feed into it and overwhelm the person in question. It overwhelms them and you may be accusing the person of something that is not true and you aren't exactly giving them the chance to explain. I got jumped on, on another site and the members came out of the woodwork to bash me - people actually followed me here to "warn" you guys that I was faking my pregnancy... and we all know how that turned out, I have a lovely daughter that I take every opportunity to share with you all. Just think carefully before you accuse, I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

I actually commend the mods here - I belong to several boards and am even a host on one, and this is one of the best. I kind of get aggravated with the censroship and moderation and "clique" activity, but I've come to find over time that you have to deal with it if you want to be part of a mostly peaceful board. Kudos, Mods!!!

Mommy2BAK replied:
Same here

Bamamom replied: Sorry i'm just now replying to this guys - I've been avoiding all forms of media because I don't want anyone to spoil the ending of the new Harry Potter book for me!

I have answered a PM from a mod about who I complained to and I let her take it from there.

Thanks