Did anyone watch the Duggars last night?

cameragirl21 wrote: It seems the Duggars will be getting a regular show on TLC (I think, or was it Discovery Channel) that will air every Monday night. I think I know how it is they support their family while it appears that neither parent works--they have commercial rental properties...smart, definitely smart on their part.
Anyway, so their oldest, Josh, proposed to a girl he met at a homeschool conference 2 years prior. And the Duggars don't date, there is a courtship process whereby they don't go out without a chaperone and the chaperone is typically another Duggar kid. The idea is that not only are they not DTD prior to saying, "I do" but also they are not allowed to kiss and the chaperone makes sure of that even though both Josh and his fiance, Anna, are totally on board with all of this.
I'm curious about a couple of things--first, to those who watched, did you get the impression that those filming were making fun of them, so to speak, by asking the other Duggar kids if they think it's right not to kiss before marriage and taking them aside and asking them these sorts of questions? I honestly thought a bit of mockery was going on, I guess they have to make it interesting somehow.
Also, I'm curious--why can't they kiss before marriage? I mean, I can understand the no DTD rule, even though I don't agree with it but why no kissing? Is it because they believe that will lead to other things or is there another reason?
I think I understand now how the Duggar children are the way they are--they don't watch tv, mom and dad severely restrict their internet access and it seems they only associate with other homeschooling kids that from what I've seen, typically also come from very large families like the Duggars. That said, I think these kids don't really know any different so there is little to no rebellion going on.
Normally I'd say this is wrong because it doesn't prepare them for the real world but Idk if they are really living in the real world if they're always shut out from it and only associate with those like them so if you don't live in the real world then there is no reason to prepare for it.
Your thoughts?

My2Beauties replied: I think those people are insane and this is all I'm going to say

cameragirl21 replied:
LOL, I'm with you but I think it's kind of like watching 2 trains speeding along toward each other...you know a disaster is about to happen and it will be gross and bloody and you don't want to look but you just can't turn away, kwim? That's kind of how I am with the Duggars--I think they're a bit out there but when they're on tv, I can't help but watch.

Danalana replied: I didn't watch it, but I have a few thoughts. On the no kissing thing...I have a friend who has chosen not to kiss until he is married. Not because he is a weirdo or something. I mean, he wants to, but he has decided he wants to give every single intimate thing about himself to his future wife. I think it's awesome, though not realistic for most. In a world where people just give any and everything away, I think it's very refreshing. That said, I don't think "no kissing" is something that should be imposed on your kids. As fas as kissing goes, that needs to be a personal choice. And yes, parents who don't want their kids to kiss are probably fearful that it would lead to something else.
I don't know how I feel about the Duggars. I kinda think those kids need to get out and meet people. Family is great and, in the end, it's the only people we can count on sometimes...but they will probably eventually get out into the "real world" at some point and it is going to be culture shock. I guess that's all for now...I might add more later

luvmykids replied: I didn't watch but saw clips online. I can't answer for them on the no kissing, but I don't think it signifies anything awful. To each his own, they're not hurting anyone.

cameragirl21 replied:
I'm not saying it signifies anything awful, Monica, just trying to understand it, the same way I'd try to understand another culture's customs if I were to travel to a remote foreign country, for instance.
I'm just wondering if anyone knows why this is a rule, not knocking them for doing their own thing, even though I may think it's a little unusual.

luvmykids replied: My guess would be that since they definitely believe in abstinence, it removes the temptation of "going too far", or takes focus from physical attraction and chemistry to deeper intimacies. It's definitely "odd" given these days and times, but the meaning behind it (if I'm correct) is pretty admirable imo.

Kentuckychick replied: I will say -- after watching the last two episodes out of curiousity -- that this show is allowing me to see the Duggars in a different light. They seem to be less rigid and strick and their family seems to be having a lot more fun.

That said, I rolled my eyes a lot during last night's episode. I mean... did anyone else get the idea that the oldest son didn't even really know the girl all that well? He talked about seeing her a few times and just knowing... not that true love can't happen that way, but it just seemed somewhat awkward. And then the whole courtship thing. If that's the way that the two of them really want to do it, then great... but again, I sense that the parents are enforcing this a lot. He's 20 years old... time to grow up and get a mind of his own.

If I were that poor girl there's no way I'd want to live in that house right there on their property.

Jim Bob's sister had me cracking up the whole time.

jcc64 replied: I recently saw a clip of The Duggars on the Today show, which is when they chose to tell their kids of Michelle's latest pg. I could be projecting, but some of the older kids didn't look thrilled. I also thought revealing that on tv was a little, idk, disrespectful to their feelings. Talk about being put on the spot
Having said that, I think of them like the Amish- deliberately forging a lifestyle for themselves far outside of the mainstream, choosing only to associate with like-minded individuals, and adhering to a very strict social code most of us would find constricting or suffocating. Hard to say how their own kids feel--I wonder how Amish teenagers feel about the broader culture--b/c I would think there are some parallels. It seems to be working for them, they have found a way to make some money off of it in the process, so hey, you could say they're living the American Dream, right?

5littleladies replied: I was wondering when this was going to come up. I watched and it was kind of an odd episode. They were really putting the emphasis on the whole courtship and abstinence thing and I'd say the producers were even going so far as to try and make it seem a bit ridiculous which is sad in my opinion. I think courtship is a wonderful idea and as far as abstinence, well it may be odd in today's society but I certainly believe it is how things should work. As far as the no kissing, when a person is planning to save themselves for their wedding night drawing a strict line from the very start is a good idea. No matter how noble a person's intentions, if you cross a line, even a small one, it makes it that much harder to keep from going farther.

The proposal was totally awkward, but come on-It can't be easy for a guy to do that in the first place and then to know that there are cameras there and that her parents were in the vicinity would probably make it that much worse. I felt sorry for the guy. It seemed that once they got comfortable with the cameras and once the newness of the situation wore off they were much more at ease with each other.

The chaperoning, well I don't know what to think about that. It is certainly a good idea as far as keeping them in line with what they want to do, but I wonder whose idea it was. It is very possible that Josh and Anna wanted the chaperones and that didn't make it on air in order to make the Duggars look ridiculous (as usual). Either way, they didn't seem to mind and it's not like they had to deal with it for long as they got married Sept 26th.

cameragirl21 replied:
So I'm not the only person who thought there was a bit of mockery going on with the producers? Good, I wondered if I was just imagining it.
I can see where you're coming from, Jennifer, but I do wonder why abstinence is considered so noble when they are engaged and going to marry anyway and I also wondered how they could be so in love when they really don't even know each other, it was almost like an arranged marriage. I wonder if it's just hormones talking, kwim?
I like Amy Duggar the most, she's my fave of the Duggar clan.
I know they didn't mind the chaperones, just wondered why they were there if both Josh and Anna were agreed on this point, it was almost as if they needed witnesses or something, as if they needed proof, kwim?
I did wonder why the entire show was about abstinence and no kissing...I found myself a bit embarrassed for them, talking about the intimate details of their lives with the entire family present and the whole world watching.

jcc64 replied:

I think that's how they conduct their lives, and are probably pretty used to it by now. Not for me, and maybe not for some of them either, but it does seem that Jim Bob's word is law in that family.

Maddie&EthansMom replied: I was quite embarassed for them, too Jennifer! I also felt like the producers were mocking them. Maybe they were just trying to get a feel for what the other kids' thoughts/plans are when they become of age.

Courtship is not something I could ever see myself doing, although I had friends who courted. I liked kissing too much in high school. However, I thought Jim Bob made a good point about dating lots of boys creating unnecessary emotional baggage. I'm just going to say I agree with this for personal reasons. There are times I wish Scotty was the only person I would have dated. But we both had serious relationships before we met one another. I knew when I met him that he was "the one" and vice versa. Most married people will say this about their spouse. Not necessarily that it was love at first sight, but I just knew he was it. I believe you can love anyone and I've loved more than one man in my lifetime. I wasted a lot of time and energy on someone who wasn't "it" and I knew he wasn't. I wish I wouldn't have given him so much of my time and my heart, I guess. It's created a lot of heartache for both of us, as well as our spouses. I can't take it back. You can't just stop loving someone. So, I guess from that aspect I understand why someone very grounded in their beliefs would go this route. It's certainly not something you hear about often. Kids are raised in a culture where "dating" is the norm. How many people did you date in high school just b/c you were attracted to them physically but really knew nothing about them? Courtship is getting to know the person first, before anything physical occurs. Sure, there might be an attraction, but it's resisting the urge to act on the attraction and the desire to have something purely physical that is so admirable and respectable.

The kissing thing is a personal decision more than anything, I would think. It's about self control and respect for the other person. "I respect your body therefore I'm going to prove to you that I can remain whole and pure until our wedding day." It's sweet. And like I said, no baggage. They will only ever know each other. There will never be a question or comparison to anyone else.

Danalana replied:
Beautifully said.

luvbug00 replied:

i saw that and thought the same thing.

yeahhh i missed it last night and that is good because that family get's me all in a tizzy with anger.

luvmykids replied:
For those who take abstinence seriously, as they appear to, being engaged is not the same as being married. The commitment to be married is not the same as actually being married.

And from what I've heard/read, although their relationship has consisted mostly of long distance phone calls, I don't personally find that odd at all. Many people who meet online or whatever other way do it the same way....and I almost think that although physical chemistry is important, sometimes you get a much clearer picture of that person and a deeper look into their heart without the physical part clouding it all.

Lastly, as corny as it may sound to some, I don't doubt a bit that they've sought God's opinion and heard from Him that this is the person for them.

Nina J replied: So long as they aren't forcing their beliefs on their children. Of course you influence your kids, but I think if this boy is old enough to become engaged, he is old enough to decide what he wants to do. If he wasn't to kiss his fiance, his parents can't say no, because he is an adult. But if it is what he wants, then thats fine.

I like the idea of not DTD until marriage, I think it's sweet If I were young again I might have waited, lol.
But I think you need to kiss before you get married. I see it more as a sign of affection, not something sexual. It can be sexual, obviously, but the majority of DH and I's kisses are just to show affection

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
Apparently this is something he chose to do and when he made the decision he discussed it and sought guidance from his parents. Although his parents did not follow a courtship, they support it 100% and would love it if all their kids would do it, but they are not forced (or so they say.)

They hold hands as a sign of affection...and I mean they.never.let.go.

luvmykids replied:
It's funny you mentioned this, there was a show on Amish teens....I forgot the age period, it was 16-18 or something, they get to dress English, drive cars, go to parties, date, have cell phones. They're supposed to use that time to experience life outside the Amish belief system and decide if they can/want to commit to it for themselves. They were very typical teenagers during that period, and I was shocked at how many of them really saw it as sowing their oats and then choosing to return to their Amish upbringing. It was pretty funny to watch their parents through these years, they seemed surprisingly able to take it all in stride.

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
I saw this, too!! Well, bits and pieces of it. I can't remember the name of it or what channel it was on, but I found it interesting.

A&A'smommy replied: ok as far as the no kissing thing I had a friend that her and her husband while they were dating the didn't kiss, hold hands, or anything physical mostly because they didn't want there to be ANY temptation. It keeps them pure for each other I think its beautiful and sweet

mckayleesmom replied:
I watched one the other night where the community lets them go off into the world for a year to decide if they want the outside world or the inside. One kid became a drug addict....Sad. Most of them did fine and I was suprised that many of them decided not to go back to the amish community even though they would be cut off from their family.

Here is the thing though...I think its great that they give them the chance to decide for themselves, but I also find that they still kind of controll their decision a bit. If they chose to leave then they lose their family..and I don't think that is right. Some kids would chose to leave, but most wouldn't want to be cut off from their parents so they go back. Either way its a no win situation.

cameragirl21 replied: I want to say thanks to those of you who explained this to me, especially Aimee, Jennifer and Monica. I have a question though, and again, if I come off as snide or smarmy, I really don't mean to but I'm afraid my question may be taken the wrong way, but I really am asking in earnest. Ok, here's the question--so Monica mentioned that they probably asked God his opinion (or something to that effect) to see if this is the right person for them. I also recall years ago when a Baptist pastor tried every which way to convince me to convert, he told me that he talks to God all the time. I always wondered this--when you ask God for answers, etc, how do you know what his answer is? I mean, I have my own way of communicating with God and in all fairness, and I know those of you whom I'm asking are probably totally against this, but as I've mentioned in the past, I've been a tarot reader and highly clairvoyant all my life so I can usually "feel" the answers intuitively OR I see a "sign" as I believe there are signs everywhere.
I know I'm different from most people though so I'm curious how others get their answers.
TIA to anyone who answers.

Maddie&EthansMom replied: Jennifer I feel your question is sincere and I know a lot of people ask this question. Christians and non Christians alike want to know "how do I hear from God? How do I know when He is speaking to me and when it's His word?"

God sends us confirmation through His word (the Bible, scripture), He also sends the Holy Spirit and sometimes you will get confirmation while sitting in church listening to the preacher.

I speak to God, He speaks to me. It's a wonderful, fulfilling relationship. The more you seek God through prayer and His word, the more you begin to distinguish His voice in your life.

I hope that answers some of your questions. I know it's a hard relationship for most to understand. It was once very difficult for me as well.

cameragirl21 replied:
Thanks for your answer, Aimee. Ok, so I have never had a problem hearing God speak to me because I am "different" and have walked in both worlds, so to speak, since I was a kid. For me it has never been a problem although at times I have wondered (usually out loud) why God was challenging me.
But when you say you hear his word in scripture, do you mean to say you ask God about something and then read the bible and then you get an answer in the scripture? I ask this because obviously the scripture doesn't change so is it to say that you find a verse that talks of something in which you get your answer?
And as for the preacher--is that to say that you may ask about something and then the preacher's sermon has to do with it? For example, when I was in high school, one of my friends wanted to date an African American and her parents were totally against this. So she told him she's not available. Then that Sunday in church, she told me that the pastor talked about racism and how wrong it is, etc, or something to that effect, I don't remember the details as it was a while back but is that what you mean?

luvmykids replied:
I agree with what Aimee said, and just wanted to add that it's probably similar to what you feel or sense as clairvoyant....just from a different source. It's not this booming voice or clap of thunder, it's much like a gut feeling or a thought that comes to you. The difference is for those who believe in Him and have that relationship, there is no mistaking that it's from Him. It's dealing with something in your life, and going to church on Sunday and hearing something in the service that resonates or confirms something for you, or praying and having the thought to read a particular Scripture that has an answer for you. It can come from other people too, more than once I've had people tell me they don't know why but they're feeling like they're supposed to tell me such and such....low and behold, it's related to something I've been talking to God about.

It sounds a lot more mysterious than it really is, it's a relationship where as you become close, you recognize a familiar voice.

I hope that gave you some insights, it's pretty instinctual for me so it's hard to explain to others

cameragirl21 replied: That's what I was wondering, Monica, if it's like a gut feeling, which is what I get about things before they happen.
I know this is a whole other topic that many here may be uncomfortable with so I won't insist on discussing it but just wanted to say that the gut feelings I've had all my life as intuition may not be coming from a different source. I know that your bible says it's wrong to be a fortune teller and so does mine but I can't help but think that if God didn't want me to be this way, He'd not have made me this way.

A&A'smommy replied:
What do you mean? that may sound like a dumb question but I'm trying to decipher to you get like "feeling" or "visions' before something happens or to you TRY to tell the future?

cameragirl21 replied:
Well, I get a feeling all the time about things...that happens spontaneously without any action taken by me.
I started reading tarot cards some years back because when I'd go out and about, like shopping for instance, I'd get strong feelings and vibes about people, sometimes horrible things, like once I saw this mother and her 3 daughters and I had the feeling the mother was going to die soon. Not like in an accident but that she was sick with something awful and didn't realize it yet. I wanted to tell her to go see a doctor, take care of herself, etc but seriously, how can I as a total stranger come up to her and tell her that in front of her 3 kids. Anyway, I'd come home with horrible headaches from all of these vibes from strangers so I bought a deck of tarot cards on instinct and found they work as a light switch, in other words, when I'm using them, I'm "on" as in open for business and ready to receive any vibe but when I put them away, I'm "off" as in, we're closed. That said, I still get vibes all the time about people but it's not quite as severe as far as the headaches go, I feel the cards give me some degree of control.
I know many of you feel it's wrong but I've been able to do really good things with them. For instance, I once saw this woman's 3 year old daughter was going to get hit by a car and I saw it so vividly--I could see the scene, hear the brakes squeal, smell the rubber of the tires, etc, I was in tears telling her about it because I literally saw it happen but because I was able to describe the scene in detail, I told her where and how it would happen and she was able to prevent it from happening...she contacted me sometime afterward to tell me that she narrowly yanked her child out from under a car's tires just in time. I think it was a good thing she came to me, hard as what I told her must have been for her. Maybe God told her to come see me because I could tell she was not the type to visit clairvoyants.
edited for a typo.

A&A'smommy replied: ok that is what I thought you meant just wanted to be sure...

Maddie&EthansMom replied: I'm not sure about the tarot reading and I'm not really qualified to answer whether or not God made you that way. That's something that is strictly between you and God. If you have a close relationship with Christ, there is no question there on whether or not He is giving you these visions. I get visions, too. Quite often actually. I wake up in the middle of the night with someone on my mind and God tells me to pray for this person. I am obedient to this. The other night when I was doing my spiritual fast God impressed some things on my heart and I didn't get to sleep until 5:30 in the morning. He had some things He wanted to show me. When this happens, I journal b/c He speaks to me through my writing. That is how I process things. He gives me the words and as I write I begin to understand what it is He is trying to do in my life.

cameragirl21 replied:
I hope what I'm about to say doesn't sound like I'm trivializing what you said but--way cool, Aimee. What is a spiritual fast...where you don't eat in order to focus on the spiritual? The journal is a very typical tactic, for lack of a better term, it's called a stream of consciousness.
In that sense, Aimee, you are not much different from me at all, you just call it by a different name.

A&A'smommy replied:
Amiee I think when he puts someone on our minds that, that is a normal thing for christians. BUT visions are a spiritual gift from God (prophecy) and that is not very common.. Jeremiah has these sometimes but since he strayed away from God they are not as often as they use to be

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
It's actually very overwhelming to experience this. There is a tremendous flood of emotions when it happens and when God reveals Himself it is not to be taken lightly. It's very humbling.

A&A'smommy replied:
Yes it is.. I have experienced "visions" only once or twice it was almost a little scary

luvmykids replied:
I, like Aimee, can't say much about your visions and where or who they come from. I do personally feel tarot cards are not "Biblical", but thats all I'll say, take it or leave it, and it's not anything to do with you specifically.

I'm not gifted with prophecy, but I do get the unctions in the middle of the night (and other times too) to pray for a specific person. I was actually a little annoyed by it at first but then it dawned on me that if He told someone else to pray for me, I'd sure hope they were obedient