Do as you say, not as you do? - taken from another thread...

Danalana wrote: This question popped in my head when I was reading another thread.

Do you think it's reasonable to expect your kids not to use foul language if you use it yourseslf?
I know parents who talk like sailors but get mad at their kids when they do. I don't think the "Do as I say, not as I do" mentality is fair...after all, they learn by example, right?
Anyway, just wondered what you think.


P.S. I realize I don't have kids yet, but I WAS a kid. My parents were both alcoholics, so it wouldn't have been reasonable for them to tell me to stay away from alcohol (luckily, I did anyway). I think it's kinda the same thing.

luvmykids replied: For me, there are times that applies, and times it doesn't. I truly try to "lead by example"...but there are, of course, some things that are ok for me simply b/c I'm a grown up, like TWO brownies, or staying up late

But when it comes to language, treating others with respect, etc I really do my best to act the way I want them to. Of course we blow it sometimes, but bad language is really an exception here, DH drops a bomb once in awhile but we keep it clean 99.9% of the time. Not only because we don't want the kids to pick it up, but we just don't talk that way in general.

On the alcohol front, DH is an alcoholic (sober 11 years now ) and we'll have to figure out as we go how to talk to the kids about it. But as far as the example we want to set in that area, nobody drinks at our house for the same reason you mentioned. I'm not an alcoholic but I'm on the same page as DH, and could really care less if others drink at home, it's just a choice we made for our own reasons.

eta: To answer your question, IMHO, if you don't want your kids to do it, it's a lot harder to instill that in them if you're doing it. "Because I'm a grown up" only goes so far

grapfruit replied: I think yes and no.

Yes it is a bit unfair. BUT learning from example also means learning from other people's mistakes and bad habits and vowing not to follow down that road. My mom is an alcoholic as well and my brother and I have both watched her and said "I'm not doing that". So far so good.

Dana you always have intriguing questions

Oh and for what it's worth, no kids here either.

Danalana replied: Oh, I agree that there are some things that are just different for kids and adults, such as staying up late. I just meant on big issues

P.S. Thanks, Casey! I do my best

Anthony275 replied: i had the worst mouth when i was little- i kept quiet about it until i was 8

Hillbilly Housewife replied: I curse like a sailor. For the most part, the kids are ok... they will only say somethin gin context, like if they drop something and it breaks, they'll say sh*t...

I do try to keep it clean...but sometimes I can't help it, the words come flying out of my mouth. "that's mommy's word" is something my dh is fond of saying.. .

luvmykids replied:
Did you get it from your parents? Or school? Our hope is that although they'll hear it at school, they'll understand it's not an acceptable way to talk because we don't allow it at home.

Anthony275 replied: i didnt say it in school but my parents just laughed at it, its funny hearing a 4 year old say that
but i also watched south park from the day it debuted on tv

grapfruit replied:
Tim's brother cusses like a sailor (b/c he was one ) But the girls don't cuss. I don't even remember Megan cussing. Every once in a great while she will slip.

Calimama replied: I think it would confuse a kid if they hear you saying curse words.. while they are being told not to say it. It's kind of hypocritical IMO. I don't say curse words, my mom WOULD flip.. in fact she would STILL flip if I did, so I never got into the habit. DH on the other hand cusses like a Marine. Luckily he seems to have an "off switch" around Miabella and can catch himself about 70% of the time.

gr33n3y3z replied: I cuss bad and I would throw sub words in while cussing. Just bc I'm the Mom doesnt make it right two wrongs dont make a right
Now that my kids are much older it depends I try to hold my toungue with the cuss words but stupid ppl. deserve them sometimes along with a few select kind of ppl. also.

My3LilMonkeys replied: We try not to curse in front of the kids, hoping they'll learn by example and not say it themselves. That method worked for DH....he'll curse up a storm with his friend or when he's mad, but in 6 1/2 years I have never heard him (or either of his sisters) say a single curse word in front of his mother.

I'm the exact opposite - my parents cursed in front of me allll the time when I was a kid, and I've never been much of a curser.

redchief replied: Let's face it... Most of the cuss words your child is going to hear, he/she will have heard by the time they start school. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking we're immune from the occasional slip of the vulgar tongue. Even if you're perfect and never slip a baddie, someone in your close circle isn't as prim as you claim to be. So, the next question is, since the kiddos have heard us all say bad words, is it OK for them to repeat them because they've heard us utter them?

The fact that we're having this conversation is almost answer enough. We try to keep our tongues because it's not morally acceptable to "cuss like a sailor." Our children know from early on that these words will get them into hot water. I disagree that hearing an adult use a cuss word is confusing. Give the kids credit, they get it early on that there are things that big people can do that kids aren't allowed. Kids learn early that mom and dad are allowed to use the stove, and they aren't. They learn early that kids aren't allowed to drive, even if it might be true that they would drive better than many adults. It doesn't take them long to understand what a naughty word is and that adults can utter them with far less repercussions than if a kid should slip up and let one go.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Ditto! Totally agree. I think it's perfectly fair to expect my kids to talk like children should...without vulgarity regardless of what words we use. I do think though that it is our responsibility as parents to lead my example. Tanner has repeated things we have said before that have slipped, and we explain that the words we used were not appropriate and that it is unacceptable if we hear him use them. I think it's good for them to know that we also make mistakes and fess up to them.

I know this takes it a bit further, stemming from what Anthony said, but it really irks me when parents think it's "cute" when their little angel uses a swear word. I will admit, the first time I heard Tanner say "sh**" I chuckled, but that was because I was more put off guard and it wasn't something I was expecting, and it was totally innocent by default. Chuckling at their first slip up is one thing, but it is far different than fostering it in a child and continuing to think it's hilarious when it continues. To continue to encourage and laugh at it is not being a very responsible parent, IMO. I have come across a few parents a time or two who do curse like sailors and their children continue to use the same language as an every day occurance. I once got called a stupid bi**h by a 3 year old my first day of work, and when I brought it to the mother's attention she said "I know, he hears it from his father, but isn't it hilarious???". Um....NO!!!!!

On a side note...who the heck made the decision to declare certain words cuss words anyway???

Calimama replied:
Oh goodness...

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Believe it or not, he wasn't even the worst behaved one in the classroom. I didn't stay at that job long.

Crystalina replied: I was raised on foul language. I was a military brat and we always hung out with the army guys and heard lots. I have the same mouth now that they had then and it's just something my whole family does. I never use bad words in public or around anyone I'm not familiar with. I don't think about it but for some reason I just never do. Weird.

My kids are taught that adults can use certain words that kids can't. I try to refrain from the "F" word as much as possible around them but it comes out and they just know not to say it. Last night I was talking to DH and told him to go in the living room and clean up his "sh*t" that he left laying on the table. Evan then came to me and said, "Daddy is not cleaning up his "sh*t" like you told him." As soon as he said it he knew it was wrong and he looked like he would be skinned in 2 seconds but I just gave him a look and said that I knew it was an accident and to be careful next time and no harm done. I knew by his reaction to his own words that he knew it was wrong and that's all I have to know. Nobody died over it. They just have to know that adults can do/say things that kids cannot. That's how I learned.

Calimama replied:
Can't say I blame you.

Danalana replied:
I understand what you're saying. But why do we teach kids not to use the stove, even though we do? because it could physically harm them. But telling them not to do something because it's wrong, yet doing it yourself just sends confusing signals. I'm talking about anything of a moral nature, or whatever. DH and I don't cuss, but that isn't to say we don't have a whole host of other "faults". I've just been wondering how I can tell my son it's not ok to do something, if I do it myself. It's kinda like shoplifting (not that I'm grouping cussing with shoplifting ) and then telling your kids it's wrong.

Danalana replied: I forgott to address your other point, Ed. You're right that kids will hear all those words in school. They're also gonna bear that it's ok to have sex when they're 12, but most parents would never tell their kids that was ok. Hehe, it makes sense in my head, but I don't know if it's coming out the way i want it to!

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I think in a way that is comparing apples to oranges. Language vs. something like shoplifting. What your asking Dana is why it's important to see our flaws and try to do something about them. It's important to tell our children that what we did was wrong and that WE will also work on our faults. It's impossible to be perfect and that's just the way it is. But, we can see our flaws and do something about them. So, if we tell our children that those words are not ok, then we should make a conscious effort to not use those words ourselves. At least around them, that is. Are you perhaps thinking they may see it as hypocritical?

Danalana replied: Yeah, i don't see how they could see it as anything but hypocritical. But I'm just talking about things we deem as "right and wrong". A kid is gonna think "If it's wrong, why does mommy and daddy do it?" I know we all make mistakes, and we and the kids can learn from them. I'm talking about people who continue to say it's wrong, but don't make an effort to change their own behavior.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Then I think those people are wrong in doing so. JMO. I think we all with some things tend to do that though and don't realize it. I tell Tanner all the time to ask me before he takes a sip of my water, but then I go ahead and take a sip from his without asking. It's not a BIG deal, but I will admit it is wrong of me. The term practice what we preach comes to mind. When it comes to things like MAJOR situations...doing drugs, shoplifting, etc. then I think we are doing our children an injustice by not acting how we expect our children to act and not setting a proper conscious example for them. When it comes to things like language though, I think that's a different category because when they are older they will be allowed to be a little more loose in their language. Not anything radical while under our roof, but for example...I say the word crap all the time but I would never allow Tanner to say it. When he is a lot older I'd probably be ok with him saying it, but not until he is WAY older. Children need to understand that there are some things they will not be allowed to do until they are older or an adult. Make sense?

Danalana replied: Yes, it makes sense

redchief replied: Jennie did a good job of explaining what I meant. For real, go up to a five year-old and ask if it's OK to say naughty words. 99 out of 100 kids will tell you it's wrong to say naughty words. Ask the same children how many naughty words they know and they'll all tell you they know more than one. Now these kids are just entering kindergarten. How is it that they know these words? Nursery school? Not likely... Siblings or cousins? Maybe. More likely though they've heard those words from the adults in their lives. But they know and are not confused that these words are not ones they can use. As I said, we have to give the kids credit for intelligence and we often don't because they're little. Think back to when you were young and how many times you had a thought like this, "I can't wait until I'm older and I can... (insert adult activity or thought)."

Kids are smarter than we think.

Danalana replied: This is why i am arguing my point. Once, when I was little, i said "sh*t"...something my mother said ALL the time. She gave me down the road for it, and even spanked me. I don't remember how old I was, but it sticks in my memory.

Crystalina replied:
I agree!

I do not tell my kids cussing is wrong and then do it.
I do not tell them it's wrong at all. I just tell them that only grown ups can say those things. Period. My kids are 6 and 4 yrs old so maybe them questioning me will come later but as of now they don't question it. It's just a thing that grown ups do. I try to explain many many things to them throughout the day. Some days much more things then other days but when it comes to something like this I would insert the infamous..."Because I'm the grown up that's why."

luvmykids replied:
That's the standard reply to "Why do you get a bigger brownie/piece of pie/cake for breakfast?"

Crystalina replied:
Yes! Yes it is.

Danalana replied:
Oooooooh, i need to come to your house for breakfast!

luvmykids replied:
Part of the terrible eating habits I mentioned!

my2monkeyboys replied: I agree with Crystalina and Redchief... I do say cuss words sometimes, but I don't allow Will to say them. He knows what is a bad word (including fart, stupid, and freakin' until he gets much older. Those are just 3 words I hate hearing little kids say). Although he's never said them enough to actually get in trouble, when he has slipped I give him a look and he doesn't say it again.
He has said a couple of things (though most he's picked up from other people or movies), but I tell him he's not allowed. It's the same with drinking beer... I let him know that when he's an adult he can but I hope that he doesn't do either very often.
I think cussing is one of those things where it really is a matter of opinion. I've known families whose children cuss as much as they do even when they're young. Crazy to me, but they think nothing of it. They're just different words to say.
As for other stuff though, like moral issues such as lying, stealing and cheating I think we have a parental obligation to do the best we can. Not saying that we don't all slip up (esp in the "little white lies" department), but we should do the best we can.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Ahh, potty words! That could be a whole other thread! I'm trying to get Tanner to understand how to use them appropriately in the right context but that repeating them and laughing is not tolerated. It has been an uphill battle, as all kids, especially boys seem to hink fart, poop, pee, and wee-wee are hilarious!

Dana, I can't ever recall Tanner getting spanked or seriously punished for using a naughty word, since when he has said one it has been from repeating something we said and not knowing at the time it was naughty for him to say. Now, if he was told to not say it and continued to not listen and keep repeating it...well, then he'd get punished for that. I think spanking a child for saying a word that was said out of innocent ignorance is a bit harsh. JMO though.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
I agree. I've been spanked for less.

TheOaf66 replied: I honestly try my best to censor myself within earshot of the kids, I admit when I am not around them I have a bit of a potty mouth. I just remember my parents not censoring at all and not really understanding them and I used them a lot when I was younger...I knew they were bad when I got in trouble at school for saying it but when I was in Jr High etc I swore like a trucker. I am trying not to do it in front of the boys, I know other people don't have that same respect for my kids or they just forget about them and I call them on it. I know I can't shelter them from it but at least I can do my part not to lead by example. I already lead by my quick temper and frustration with things so I do what I can to raise them well...weather or not they'll listen to what I teach them is another story

Danalana replied: Troy, that was my point. Leading by example. They are going to hear swear words, unless you live in a cave...and away from other cave children. But hearing it from your parents still is bound to create confusion.

mom2my2cuties replied: I think at a certain age, our kids worlds revolve around repeating everything we say and do. I know Andrea even right now anything she sees us do, she will follow suit. Sometimes it's not always the right thing that she does but in correcting her behavior once it's realized that we did it to, we always apologize and tell her that mommy (or daddy or Brandi or Jeff) was wrong and that we will try to do better too.

Crystalina replied:
Dana do you cuss now?

The reason I ask is because your getting ready for your first baby and I remember that I was the same way you may be. I questioned a lot of things while pg and felt it was my job to shelter, protect and better myself for my kids. That lasted for awhile and things changed after my second child (the boy ) and I started cussing more around them. I never started smoking again and rarely drink but the cussing came back full force and I think "I said I would never do this." but now it's like, "I'm doing it because I'm the mom and I can so deal with it!". I don't love them any less and try to refrain from certain four letter words but there are times that I just say them.

I'm not saying that you will eventually cuss around your kids if you do now, I'm just saying over time all the perfectness that we want for our kids is substituted by real life. It's kind of like that diaper commercial.

Danalana replied: That's a good question! No, I don't. Neither does DH, so we're alright in that department
The only time I really cussed in my life was when I was in 5th grade. Apparently, my cousin and I decided it was cool, so we couldn't say one sentence without using a bad word. I mean, our parents did...older kids at school (high school kids on the bus) did. Shoot, we thought we were something I guess it didn't take too long for us to get tired of it, cause I haven't done it since. I saw him a year ago, and it would seem that he decided it was cool again