Educating your children

MommyToAshley wrote: Just curious, I am not sure what I will do when Ashley is of age.

DansMom replied: DH and I are in a debate about this. I went to an alternative school (not your traditional private school, but it wasn't a public school); DH went to public school, and even though school was not a particularly positive experience for him---he dropped out and later got his GED---he favors public school. It's ironic actually. Because he grew up fairly well off, he has this fear of being elitist. Since I grew up on welfare, AFDC and food stamps, I totally lack any fear of being elitist. I just want my child to have a supportive environment to learn in. We have excellent public schools in the city I live in, so I'm not worried if we go that route. There is also an "open" school, which is run like the alternative school I attended, but is larger and is part of the public school system, and you have to be in a lottery to get in unless your older sibling attended. There are also a good number of charter schools in our area. So we'll have a lot of good choices when the time comes.

Kaitlin'smom replied: not to sure yet, I wont be able to home school unless things change drastically, but I am not sure where she will go to scholl, it depends on where we buy our next home and what the schools are like as to public or privet, but I would like for her to exprience going to school, just dont know where it will be.

jdkjd replied: We live right by one of the best public elementary schools in our town AND they have 3K and 4K preschool. Very exciting.

I'm especially excited about not having to pay over a grand a month for childcare anymore after Bailey turns 3.

amynicole21 replied: Florida public schools are rated at about 48th in the country... unless we move into a MUCH nicer area it doesn't look good for us. We hope to move out of the state soon, and then we'll take the school systems into GREAT consideration. I'd like to send her to public, but will send her to private if we are still in this area.

jcc64 replied: Kwym about Fla schools, Amy. My parents are teachers, and my mom was horrified when my brother moved there. She said when students transfer to her school in NJ, she said they are typically one year behind in the curriculum. My girlfriend moved to Fla for one year, and came back for the same reason.
But my mom also says that in homes where education is a real priority, kids will do well regardless of their circumstances.
And while most kids I know that are homeschooled are bright and well adjusted, I have a bias against homeschooling in general. I believe most of the work in the elementary years is social rather than academic, and despite well intentioned efforts by homeschooling parents to create opportunities for interactions with other kids, it is often too controlled and contrived. I mean, I can't see a homeschooling parent deliberately forcing her child to hang out with a child they don't get along with. And yet, this is an invaluable part of the schoolyard experience- IF IT IS HANDLED WELL. Learning to adapt and compensate in less than optimal conditions is a critical part of growing up.

5littleladies replied: We homeschool and I love it! I went to a private school and I liked it but we no longer have any in our area that we would send our kids to, not to mention the fact we couldn't afford it (c'mon school vouchers!). Dh went to public school (the same ones our kids would go to) and while he didn't hate it he does not want our children going there. We want to be in control of what our children are learning-meaning I want them to learn what is relevant-not some of the ridiculous stuff that public schools have decided is necessary for kids to know. I consider myself fortunate that I am able to stay home and teach my kids. We have to give some things up to be able to do that but that's ok. I think it's well worth it.

MomToMany replied: Please don't let this turn into a debate. My kids go to public school. While it might not be the best in the world, it works for us. I applaude the moms who home-school. That's great! I've gone back and forth over this, and to me public is better for our kids. There are no private schools around here. I don't know how I would have time to home-school. I do work at home, nothing glorious, but it's money. Yes, I do feel guilty sometimes sending them to public school. Sometimes I think I could do better, but I don't know.

5littleladies replied:
Sorry but I have to take offense at this. My daughter is homeschooled (this will be her second year) and she has as many friends and is as well adjusted as the next child. She has her church friends (basically the only kind I had my whole life) and she has her activities during the week that she has requested to go to. She does have other friends who are homeschooled and I think that is great but I don't force her to play with them. She is not afraid to go up to other children and introduce herself when we are at the playground. I haven't tried to "create" any opportunites for her-she tends to create them for herself. You say that most of the homeschooled kids that you know are bright and well adjusted so that gives me reason to believe that your argument is unfounded and uncalled for. I totally agree that the elementary years are more social than anything but I don't believe that you have to send your kids to school in order for them to attain that. JMO.

Edited to say- I am not trying to turn this into a debate. In both of my posts I have simply stated my opinion. I have no problems with parents sending their kids to public school, in fact I have considered it myself. Homeschooling is just the best option for our family.

jcc64 replied: I don't think there's anything wrong with a healthy debate, as long as it's respectful and civilized, as I always try to be. I certainly don't want to offend anyone with my views. But I also don't think we need to be so afraid to exchange ideas, opinions with each other, even if we don't always agree.
It's why I continue to come here. I've come to realize that my political views in particular are wayyyyyyyyyyy out of step with many moms here, and sometimes it makes me uncomfortable. But I also don't want to surround myself with people who only think as I do.
For example, Mommy2Ashley and I couldn't possibly be more different from a political perspective, and yet, I've come to value her friendship, support, advice, and opinions.
It's ok to disagree. We can all learn from each other in the process.

And btw- to continue the conversation if you are so inclined, I see your kids are still relatively young yet. I think you may find that as kids get older, their socializing needs/interactions may become more complex.
In the meantime, I'm glad it's working for you, and I'm sure you're doing an excellent job. I admire your devotion to your children.

5littleladies replied:
You are absolutely right-it very well may. I hope when and if that time comes I will be able to find a way to deal with it that works to everyone's liking. It probably won't include sending them to school though as I truly believe in the long run my kids are better off at home.

Kaitlin'smom replied: well here comes one of my observations I do admire anyone who had the time and patience to homeschool there child, I know I could not do it, I would slack off to much and my childs education would suffer, so for us weither public or private it will work best for us. I do plan on helping her with her school work, it will be fun to learn what I did not and to re-learn things that I have forgotten.

I also know a few home schooled kids....well some are adults now, all of them are very bright and well adjusted, some of the ones I knew went on to college they said the first year was the hardest beacause they simply were not pre-paired, not accidemically but socialy, they had no idea what to expect in that kind of learning enviroment. So I ask the girl do you regret being homeschooled? She said for the most part no but she wishes she could have gone to some High School to be better pre-paired for college.

5littleladies replied:
We have actually talked about this and when the time comes will probably give our kids the option of going to high school. Another option is letting them take part-time classes at the high school, something I am personally interested in as I think they would learn more about ,oh say biology, in the classroom than at my dining room table. My youngest brother was homeschooled and decided to try going to high school his sophomore year and just didn't like it but now that he is in college is doing very well. I guess it just depends on the person.

Edited to say-I'm sorry if I am being too opinionated about this. Since I am homeschooling (and seem to be the only one on this board who is) I feel the need to let everyone know why I am doing it and why I feel the way I do. This is something I feel very strongly about for my family, but I am in no way criticizing those who feel differently, just as I would hope everyone would do the same for me.

A&A'smommy replied: Here is my point of view since I was home schooled most of my life... I'm not going to college not a regular college anyway, and the biggest reason for that is because I feel I'm not smart enough and the only reason for that is because my mom wasn't very disciplined, and they didn't have the money to send me to sylvan to get what I wasn't getting at home if she had done that I would have been fine because she was a LOT like me when it came to math not good at it! My brother on the other hand gets it and is REALLY good at it my mom doesn't even have to try to understand it because he does! SO really it depends on the child I was ALWAYS involved in something social so that was never a problem for me on the other hand other children may have problems with it. It depends on the child and the parents, the parents have to listen to the child if they want to go to school you need to find a good school and let them go because if they don't get what they need whether it be social or educational then they could feel regret for the rest of their lives. So please don't pretend to know anything about home schooled children until you have been there.

Edited to say: and please don't get mad at me lol I didn't say all this to upset anyone I promise!!!!

DansMom replied: I wasn't home schooled, but my high school was parent run with 3 full time teachers, and enrollment was so low at one point that there were only 11 students in our school. I was able to focus on subjects I enjoyed more thoroughly and in depth than I might have been able to do at a public school. We didn't have sports or a music program, though, and I feel I missed out on the chance to play music in a large group or be on a sports team and learn to play a sport well. We had written evaluations and we didn't have grades, although you would get only partial credit for a class if you didn't complete your work. I was able to do independent study, like an internship, at a magazine, and I credit that experience for leading to my work in the publishing industry now. On the whole, I'm grateful that my mom chose alternative schools for me from 1st grade on, even knowing what I missed out on. It was harder for kids coming into our school as teenagers from the public school system, though. They had difficulty adapting to being self-directed. Making the switch from small alternative school to public education (which I did when I went to college) seemed easy academically. I was surprised at how well I did in my freshman year, not knowing how I would compare and never having received a grade in my life. But I was used to being self-directed, studying, being prepared for class and taking notes, so I did well. But socially, it's true---I was intimidated. I was afraid to talk in class throughout college, absolutely terrified! A typical classroom would be the size of my whole school, maybe more. I didn't get to know very many students at all, and maintained more friendships with professors than with classmates after graduating.

ediep replied: I am a public school teacher and I will send Jason to public school. The schools in my town are new and very good. They have climate control (sounds trivial, but it is important to be comfortable while learning), have tons of computers and are very hands on, which goes along with my philosophy of education. The elementary school that Jay will attend is right around the corner from my neighborhood. The middle school is beautiful. I did my student teaching in the school that Jay will attend for 6-8th grade.

In some private schools, the teachers don't have to be certified, they just have to be an expret in their field. I know this because my dad worked as a teacher in my HS, and he is not a certified teacher. He was a retired pharmacist and was hired as a science teacher, he is also a deacon in the catholic church and also worked as a religion teacher.

I went to catholic HS, but knowing that now, I wouldn't send Jay there.

Kirstenmumof3 replied: My Children go to a Catholic School. It's exactly the same as the Public School System, it's not private.

MommyToAshley replied:
I couldn't agree with you more... I enjoy hearing (and sometimes debating) both sides of important issues. I don't mean to start topics that cause conflict, but I do like to be challenged on important topics like education and politics. I think it is wonderful that the members here are mature enough to debate issues without attacking the person with the opposing view. Some of our conversations have really opened my eyes to a different point of view.

I just wanted to add that I hope I haven't made you feel uncomfortable with some of my posts in the political discussions. I actually thought I was the person that was in the minority here, even DH has different political views than myself. We seldom vote for the same people. But, I apologize if I made you or anyone else feel uncomfortable.

Now, back to what this thread is about.... Wow, you all have really given me some things to think about. I am still not sure what I will do when it is time to send Ashley to school, I see the pros and cons of all options.

momof2girls replied: My oldest daughter started out in preK and Kindergarten in private school, I liked it although they were a bit too strict with the kids. The tuition for 1st grade went up soo much we could not afford to keep her there, we moved to a area that had A rated schools and she has been there several years and we are happy with the school, I volunteer there alot, since I have 2 days during the week that I dont work, Im very involved in what she is being taught.

I went to public school in Detroit which most people would turn there noses up at.
I have friends that went to private schools are their life I dont feel they are smarter or better then me, most of them were wild cause they were so strict in school...

Its all a matter of what will work for your family and your children.

I dont really think there is the right way to do things and where they should go, as long as they are learning that is what matters.

coasterqueen replied: I voted "other". I would LOVE to homeschool, but that's entirely not possible. Since Kylie was born after the cut-off of September 1st she would have to wait to go to school til she's almost 6 instead of 5. Dh and I both started school at 4 years old because our bday were right after the cut-off but it was possible then. So we both feel that if Kylie is ready at 5 years old we may send her to a private school for kindergarten then transfer her into our local school district to start first grade. We both really want her to go to the same school for her entire school years but we don't think she should have to wait til she's 6 if she's ready at 5. We are tossing up some ideas. We may send her to a Montissouri (sp?) school for kindergarten.

DH thinks I should lobby the school board to allow children to be tested and if they are ready they should be able to go to school. Not sure if I have that in me to take on that fight. It won't be an easy task of lobbying that's for sure. I know the school board president well and he said he wouldn't budge.

Otherwise the rest of her schooling will be in our local district. We both went to school in this district and purposely planted ourselves in the district so Kylie could go to school here. Her teachers will be most of the people we went to highschool with which is kinda cool!

jcc64 replied: Little word to the wise, Karen, on your idea about lobbying the school district to reconsider their enrollment age. SAVE YOUR ENERGY!!!
In my experience, all public schools have one thing in common: bureaucracy. And what that means to you as a parent is that change, ANY change is excruciatingly slowwwwww. Even if they did agree to revisit the age requirements,(which I believe they wouldn't ), they'd have to form commitees to discuss it ad nauseum, then they'd have to consult with the teachers' union, then the board, yada yada yada. In the meanwhile, Kylie will be driving by then.
I would redirect your energy to Kylie's particular needs. I think the idea of sending her to a montessori school for a year is a good one. Kids at that age have very little difficulty moving around, it's when they get older that they don't want to change schools. My kids had GREAT experiences with a Montessori preschool, it's very child centered and yet provides enough structure that prepares kids for public school later on.
When my kids were little, I was full of ideas and energy about how I wanted their education to be. I've since learned that rather than trying to change the entire school, it's more fruitful to make a relationship with the individual teachers and focus on your child's particular needs.

MommyToAshley replied: I totally forgot about the September 1 cut-off date! I am already afraid that Ashley will be bored in school but I think she needs the social interaction more than anything. Academically, she already knows many of the things that are taught in kindergarten (alphabet, colors, numbers, shapes, sorting, etc), but she isn't around other kids on a regular basis. I do plan to put her in pre-school, but I didn't think about the fact that she would have to wait until she is 6 to go to Kindergarten.

kit_kats_mom replied: We've discussed this in our family and even though we live in Florida, we will probably send Katherine to public school. We are adamant about volunteering at the school and knowing the teachers and what is going on though & we will do everything we can to enhance what is being focused on in the school.

I attended middle school in San Francisco and started high school in Florida. I was in honors classes and they were still covering things that I'd learned in 7th & 8th grade. It was not challenging, uncomfortable and frankly, awful. I transferred to another school that was public but different. There were only about 10 students per class, lots of art and music courses and they let you really focus on what you enjoyed. You still had to take the basics, but it was different. By the time I got in, 11th grade, I'd had enough of HS though and I dropped out, got my GED & started taking classes at the community college. Not something that I'm proud of, but I did continue my education and get a BS. I love learning it's just that the HS here was so bad socially and academically. Probably didn't help that I was a punk rocker in a school full of rednecks! LOL

I think that my experiences will help me to look out for problems that K may have with school & hopefully we will be able to nip them in the bud. I plan to be involved and supportive of her issues. If it appears that she is not meeting her potential, then we will re-think the issue & come up with something that works for our family.

One side note: the worst kids I knew in HS...the druggies, the drinkers, partiers, fighters etc went to the christian school or the private school. So although their academics may be better (I've never really researched that), they don't have my vote at all for the social aspect at all.

One more side note: I've read that Yale and Harvard are actually seeking out Home schooled students for enrollment. Interesting. I've not ruled it out but I'm just not sure I have the energy to devote to homeschooling full-time. We shall see...

coasterqueen replied:
Thanks, you are right. I still *may* do it. Dh thinks one day I should run for school board. Who knows maybe I will once Kylie is in school. I still believe that they should have a system in place that if a parent wants their children tested to start early they should. I know that means it would be a test at the parent's expense but that's fine, that's why it would be voluntary. I know then you get into the issue of those who can't afford it and it's not fair, etc. Not sure what to do there, have to think on that one, but our school district is a rich kid's district. Not that Kylie is by any means but most of the kids that go to school there live in $300k to $500k homes. About 25% of us live in regular to farm type homes, but even the farmers out here are rich. So there isn't much low income families out this way.

One reason we wanted to send her at 5 if she's ready is because we want her to go to preschool at 3 for social interaction with other kids her age. But if we did that and let her wait to go to K at 6 she would be in PreK for 3 years and the school won't allow that and I think she'd eventually get bored.

My SIL has her kids in Montessouri and loves it. I'm not a fan of private schools but I need to put that aside for the sake of what's best for Kylie. Montessouri might be that for Kylie. Just got to convince DH that the pricetag is worth it, lol.

Who knows things might change by the time she is ready .

maestra replied:
That's not all we teach in Kinder! We work with the child's individual needs, and if Ashley is ready to start reading, then we work on that. We also work on addition and subtraction concepts (and the actual writing of problems if they are ready for it) and how to write stories. A good school will be child centered, and have teachers that really look at the individual needs of a child. You can tell this right away just be talking to or observing the teachers.

P.s. To all- Sept 1 isn't some arbitrary date that we just picked to make people mad. The majority of time, children born past that point aren't socially ready for kinder. I had a child (of a colleague) that tested to get into kinder a year early, and while academically she was ready, emotionally and socially she wasn't. She did ok, but this will have lasting effects for her. There are also reasons why some things are so difficult to change, a "buracracy" some have called it. We have an obligation to be fair to ALL parties involved. And teachers do need to be involved in these processes. Most times a parent is thinking of the individual needs of their child. In my district, we have to worry about the needs of 32,000 plus children.

I, for one, will be more than happy to have my September baby wait a year so that she will be one of the older, more confident children in her class.

By the way, thanks for having a debate about education in which you have not bashed teachers. I usually don't read the threads about education anymore because it makes me feel so alienated.

MommyToAshley replied: Michelle, I'm glad you chimed in here. It's nice to hear from teachers like yourself and Edie. I didn't mean to imply that was all that you taught in kinder, but the point I was trying to make is that I think Ashley is advanced academicallay, but needs to be around more kids socially. That's why I thought it would be better for her to go earlier. However, you are saying that the opposite is true and that she should wait until she is 6. So, now I am more confused than ever.

I wish I could feel as confident as you that Ashley would get individual attention. Just like any other job, there are some really great teachers that give 120% and then there are few bad apples that gives everyone a bad name. And then there are issues like over-crowded classroooms, that would make individual attention impossible even for the best teachers.

Is there any chance you could move to Ohio and I could send Ashley to your class!

coasterqueen replied: That cut-off date is blah blah, lol. It's a debate none of us can win really. When people tell me that I think well how come my child born 6 days after the cut-off wouldn't be emotionally ready than one born 6 days before her. I know they have to have a cut-off, though.

Dh and I both started early and were among the youngest in our class. Most of our class that started later were actually MORE immature than us who were younger and the younger ones actually excelled better academically.

So I guess they must go on an overall percentage when calculating what's the best date for cut-off. I just never see how they can determine Sept 1 and before babies are emotionally ready and those Sept 2 and on are not. I think they should test academically and emotionally as to whether a child is ready and go from there, but for some reason the school systems don't see the necessity.

This is a good thread though. It's given me a lot to think about, areas I necessarily haven't until now. So I appreciate this debate. And as far as teachers go...there are good and bad..just like there are good and bad school systems...so I would never bash teachers . They hold the key to my child's future since I can't homeschool.

5littleladies replied: I also started school early-I was a few days shy of 5 when school started and I was emotionally not ready, but then again neither were alot of the other kids who were the right age. I don't really think I have suffered in the long run. My daughter Megan won't be 5 until November but I am starting her this fall. Accademically I think she is ready. Of course since we are homeschooling it is quite different as we can go at our own pace. I really think it should depend on the child.

jcc64 replied:

First of all, thanks for providing the perspective of a teacher. I know it must be difficult to be in a profession where everyone is so judgmental and sometimes critical. I hope you continue to participate in these conversations because it is essential to hear the teachers' perspective.
My parents and most of my close friends are lifelong public school teachers. I am still seriously considering a mid life career change to elementary ed, so I obviously have an awareness about and an affinity for teaching.
Having said that, I want to respond to your comment above. The real problem with public education, imo, is the temptation to view the student body as a monolithic structure. Schools are often criticized, rightly so sometimes, for teaching right down the middle, to little Johnny Average with one specific learning style. Anyone that falls outside of that prototype may or may not get their individual needs met. There are all sorts of programs and state mandates for children with special needs, but many kids fail to meet the criteria. And very often, those children are those like Kylie or Ashley, very bright, high achievers, as well as those whose learning style is not well accomodated in a regular classroom. (I'm thinking of kids who are not quite ADD, but are atypical learners that struggle with the rigid structure of a classroom) I realize the schools are only required to meet minimum standards, but it's sad and frustrating that these kids with so much potential are basically ignored.
And while the school is obligated to consider the needs of 32K kids, it is also obligated to remember those needs are not all the same.

3_call_me_mama replied: While Cameron is our oldest and won't be going to school for a while, we will homeschool when the time comes. I have taught in publoic schools and done a lot of research on homeschooling, and have found that homeschooling will be the best option for us. Since I have a teaching degree, our state allows me to teach and assess my children without interference. I just need to report the results out. Like Ashley, and several other kids on here it seems, cameorn academically knows most of the things taught here in our public school kindergarten. As far as the social aspect is concerned, I own a licensed daycare center and he is there 4 days a week with me but in the toddler classroom. he is socially learning all the things he need to and academically he is above the level that they screen for here in Kindergarten. So I am not concerned that he will become some socially withdrawn child because he will be homeschooled. It is about the opportunities that you encourage and provide for your child that help them develop and grow, not the ones that they are merely thrown into and hope for the best, or hope that some other adult will encourage positive relationships to be formed/ social skills will be learned. As a parent and an educator I firmly believe that God gave children to parents to raise, educate, socialize, nuture and love. He made teachers, daycare workers, doctors, etc. to help in the areas as needed, NOT to do the job for the parents. This is why school systems cannot have children! It is not their primary function, they are there to ASSIST the families in child rearing and educating, not to do it for them. IMO anyway.

Also as far as cutoffs go VT allows each district to choose their own cutoff date. Some districts have a sept 1, some have a sept 30, some have a nov 1, etc. Our school district curently has a Dec 31st cutoff. This allows any child born in a calendar year to attend school with their same age peers. Now i understand that it doesn't take into account their development levels but in all reality, why would a child born 5 days before another be any more ready for school than one born five days later? It would be discrimination if a child had a disability to hold them from entering school because they weren't developmentally/socially ready, but it's not for a "regular" kid?! Also paretns have the choice (at least here) to keep their child from entering Kindergarten until age 6 if they feel they are not ready, and a school can suggest that a child stay out until age 6 even if they meet the cutoff but it ends up being the parents final say if they do meet the cutoff. But regardless of their ability levels/socialization levels, if they don't make the cutoff for age. they aren't allowed in.
VT want to change the law so that all districts have the same cutoff of Sept 1, but allow individual school boards to make exceptions as they see fit! IMO this is rediculous! All it is saying is that paretns that have pull with the school board can make their kids the exception, and those without pull have to abide by the rule! What an awful thing to teach 5 year olds! ( or almost five year olds!)

raysnroof replied: Hello ladies! I am brand new here at Parenting Club and I am enjoying reading your lively but good-natured discussions. We home school our five living children. They are between the ages of about 12 and 1 years. I have been home schooling since the first was born. I consider it a lifestyle, not just an educational choice. I allow them to have varied social contacts. They are not less human for never having had their lunch money stolen and been hungry the whole day. They are no less socialized for not having been punched out on the playground. They have been involved in various activites through the years and are not socially deprived in anyway. I consider a certain amount of isolation a good thing. That said, my children have encountered people from all walks of life through AWANA and chess clubs, church choir, community theater, home school group activites, and much more. They have had to deal with less savory individuals but they have come out shining because they are not brow-beaten with said "opportunities" and have ample time to come up for air. They are not adults yet and I do not feel it is healthy for them to be exposed to adult-sized confrontations beyond their scope 8 hours a day for five days out of seven.
All this said, I have the utmost respect for teachers. My oldest sister was an excellent teacher up until this year when she quit after 20 years due to frustration with the system. Children who were no longer allowed to ride the bus were forced to drive cars and getting hurt at alarmingly increased rates as they hurried to school while her summer breaks were being stolen from her through district-controlled hooplah. I taught pre-K in private institutions prior to becoming a mother. I saw the inside of the private sector and my sister saw the inside of the public sector. Before I was even married and long before my sister's last disenchantment, though, I was convinced that home school would be the best for any children I would be blessed with.
I did not know then what I know now, but I did see the struggles that gripped me as a teacher in a simply stupendous private school. Even with resources like an olympic-sized pool and an indoor track, I was still pressed to give those kids all they needed. I did not know, at taht time, that even Ivy League school enrollment staff would be clamouring to have home schoolers in their student body due to unprecidented studies that home schoolers are self-starters. I did not know then that the school gun issue that hit my high school would become rampant in later years. I did not even know that only 10% of what is taught at the chalk board is truly retained when 90% of what is heard, seen, AND worked with is retained, making home school unit studies even more desireable.
Now that our dear children are nearly 12, 10, 8, 4, and 1, (our 5th child would have turned 2 years old in June) I can see that my pull toward home schooling was a wiser choice than I had ever dreamed. My first three children, alone, represent three different learning modalities! Yes, most teachers are trained to meet the individual differences of such a range, but it is truly a challenge I wish not to release to anyone but myself, in regard to my own children. The student-teacher ratio is also much easier to deal with. I even consider I am doing conventional school teachers a favor by lowering their class attendances just a bit. A few years ago, a nationwide (US) study was done with teachers of K-6 children. The teachers were asked to estimate how much time they were able to spend with each child in their class. Stop and just imagine what the average was. You will surely be at least as shocked as I was, even though I was painfully aware of how few those minutes of individual time are when your student-teacher ratio excells even the "good" standards of my largest class of 15-1. Well? Did you guess 7 minutes? Now guess how often they received those precious 7 minutes.
Did you guess one week? I am not fabricating this, my friends! The average individual time each child got with a teacher was seven minutes per week! Even a working mother could provide that! Again, PLEASE understand that I support teachers of all walks. I am with them in the fight for our future! I am only painfully aware of their challenges. They have been given an insurmountable task with limited resources. I have seen the very best private schools and I still have come to my own opinion that my children will be the most well rounded if I allow them to use our home as thier educational, social, and spiritual base. (notice I said BASE) This means home schooling for us.
Thanks for letting me barge in and blab.
Sharon in KS
Jill of all trades
Master of none
Mom of many
Wife of one

kimberley replied: hi Sharon! welcome to the board and thanks for that inspiring post. it almost made me want to get off my bum and try home schooling my 3 kids but i don't think i have the discipline and know-how that it takes. you must be very proud of your accomplishments. you are doing such a wonderful things for your kids

MomToJade&Jordan replied: I actually voted public, but that was because I myself went to a public school. The only thing is we are military so I think I am going to have to see how good the base school is first before I make that decision. I will tell you one thing. If we were going to be in Hawaii for Jade's schooling I would homeschool. The education system out here is really bad. Even the schools on base leave a child way behind for other schools. I went through the Florida publc school system myself and I was fine. I even went to a Florida college and I felt like I was ready when I got there. I just want what is best for Jade so If I have to homeschool her then I will. Most likely though she will go to a public school.

sunnyH2004 replied: I homeschooled my son for a little over half a year in 2nd grade. The main reason why was because I didn't care about his teacher. During the remainder of the year I was able not only teach him school subjects but also made a lot of stress on my own expectations of him, teach him about how important school is and just give him a break from the strict routine. He is back now fully prepared, completely improved in behaviour and I feel a little better about him being back in regular school. But I won't hesitate to take him out again if he develops any problems that could interfere with his studies, or if I feel he is not in a safe situation. During my own years in school I sometimes wish my parents could have homeschooled me for a year. The reason why is that in some cases when you go back after some time spent in homeschool you are ready to have a fresh start and feel more confident, rested and ready to take the world. But I wouldn't homeschool for the entire school career. However, even while he is in a regular school we never miss an opportunity to learn at home.

We didn't have a very good experience in pre school, so I am not sure if I would want to send my second child to preschool. But a lot also depends on the child, and all kids are different and some might do better in homeschool while others in a regular school. I think that if you have an opportunity to try both and see which fits you best, it is a good idea. And with some kids it is a good idea to include them into this decision. Before we took our son out I talked to him extensively about homeschooling and stated what I expected from him. I also kept the door to public school open during our homestudies so he wasn't surprised when we sent him back this year. He feels good about both, homeschooling and regular school now, and this makes me feel good too that we have options. Fortunately, in our state homeschooling is also very much supported by the government.

Alice replied:
I went to Catholic Schools, and spent 20+ years teaching in them. (my husband too!)

Yet our kids are going to public school. I'm a SAHM for the time being, and we just can't afford the tuition. It kills me, because I really do believe in a school where there are moral absolutes. But we can't afford it. Luckily, the public schools here are great. Maybe by the time high school rolls around, when I'm back to work, we'll be able to afford it.

I agree with what you say about teachers in private schools not needing to be certified, at least in NY. But... honestly, to me that isn't a big deal. (And yes, I am certified. I got my Masters in 1984). What I learned in my Ed. courses didn't really effect the kind of teacher I would become-- I don't remember them ever hitting the really important things you learn the first few years you teach (Like how to get a bee out of your room-- turn off the lights and open the windows-- they love light!) or how to get a class's attention by lowering your voice. The math I learned in grad school was like Calc 3 and Calc 4-- not the geometric proofs I taught to the kids in high school

I think that, more than Certification, a school with lots of great experienced teachers is what makes a newbie into a good teacher. I was lucky enough to have a WONDERFUL chairman my first few years...a little old nun who was just amazing with the kids. And one of the other teachers -- also amazing-- took me under her wing and taught me a lot.

momof3angels replied: Hi everyone, I am Jeanine, and while I have been to this board before, it has been a long time. I am mom to Gabriel (9) Dominic (6 1/2) and Mikayla (18 months). My DH went to private school his entire life and he prefers to send our kids to public school and I went to public schools all my life and preferred to send them to private! LMAO Go figure. Anyhow, we decided to compromise and as long as the kids are in decent school districts, then we will send them to public school, however if we aren't in great school then we will look for a good private school. While I LOVE the thought of homeschooling, I just don't have the time, energy, and most of all discipline to provide a great homeschooling environment. This is where another compromise comes in. I send my children to public schools for their primary formal education, but I work VERY HARD at home to supplement with whatever they happen to need.

As for the cuttoff dates, personally I agree with the schools trend to go to a September 1, or even a July or August 1st cuttoff. My first two kids are boys, and while it is not written in stone, girls tend to be ready for school much earlier than boys. This is definately the case with my firstborn. His birthday was August 14, so he made the September 1st cuttoff by just 2 weeks. However, the closer he got to the Kindergarten Roundup dates, it bacame more and more clear that he was not ready for K. We opted to hold him back. We worried for an entire year whether or not we made the right decision. Well, just before Kindergarten we moved to a new school district that had a DECEMBER 1st cuttoff. This meant that he was even OLDER than the general class. I was very active in his classrooms, and while I noticed that at least half of the girls were ready at the age of 5, hardly ANY of the boys were ready! Gabriel was STILL just barely ready. Now my second son had a January 4th birthday, so we didn't have a choice, he had to wait until he was 5 1/2. He is a VERY BRIGHT boy, but I am still glad he couldn't start kindergarten until 5years9months. Again, I looked at his class and most of the girls were OK, but very few boys were.

Another thing to keep in the back of your mind...I have read that a lot of us started school when we were still 5 and some even 4, and we all turned out OK. BUT, we weren't learning half as much as the kindergartners today are! We were taught the same stuff that our pre-schoolers are today, and our kindergartners are expected to already know all their colors and to count to 20 and their abc's and how to write their names and alphabets. In Kindergarten they are expected to do much more, including beginning math and reading and writing. Anyhow, that is just my opinion and I am thankful that my 6 1/2 year old is among the older first graders and if very mature and confident and same with my 9 year old 3rd grader! I would rather they be the oldest than the youngest! OH, and when we finally moved to AZ, the cuttoff was once again September 1st, so they are the right age in their new schools. Again, Gabriel is 2 weeks older, but then there are several classmates who waited and extra year too!

mom21kid2dogs replied:
I'm THRILLED my daughter can't go to Kindergarten until she is nearly 6. Olivia, too, is way above the curve academically ,and, fortunately, socially as well. I have the same worries about being bored in Kindergarten, too but then I went and "observed" several classes. Kindergarten in our neck of the woods is now bootcamp with little consideration given to the fact that 5 year olds should not be in school 6 hours a day let alone being pushed to the academic limits they now are. Kinda nutty, actually. Seems like society as a whole now sets the standard by the weakest of parental ability and starts making up from there.

In response to your poll, we chose the local Catholic school. Best teachers overall (though there is no assurances they'll always be there), fantastic class size (9 in this years' Kindergarten class as opposed to 29 in the public school Kindergarten class), mandatory parent involvement, uniforms, combined upper classess, it all appealed to us. For $1,150 a year, it's well worth the cost. I never thought of it as elitist, though .

If my daughter has learning issues not well addressed in the school system, I wouldn't hesitate to homeschool. I'm very connected to a large network of homeschooling families, have seen several of my friend's kids graduate. 5 of the 7 went on to college. One got a full ride to Carnegie-Mellon. Guess I'm biased towards homeschooling because I've witnessed it done right over and over again.

gr33n3y3z replied: Our public school only has 71 kids from 1st to 8th grade
So Were lucky

MyBlueEyedBabies replied: I voted public because we will definately be going that route. Though we will doing the same thing as Karen with Kylie petition for her to start even though she missed the cut off by 20 days and if it doesn't work go to private for a year (if we can afford it ) My best friend is the kindergarden teacher at the public school here and she is already saying she would love to have Katy in her class and hopes the district lets her in, and agrees that we should put her in when she is 5 not 6. Also if we ever move back to California she would be a year behind starting at 6 as the cut off there is December.

mysweetpeasWil&Wes replied: We would like to send Wil to a Waldorf School, which is K-12, if there were one in our area...but there isn't. Our public schools are great though, so that would be my second choice! If we moved and found a Waldorf though, I would only put him in there up until end of junior high. Both DH and I think it's important he goes to public school for High School. Mainly for the social aspect.

luvbug00 replied: We are going public here. For the social interaction and the fact that we are in a state with one of the nations highest regarded education programs. we have magnet schools each specifying in a differant area. You can got to a school that teaches spanish, japanese or french or Mya's school which does the arts and sciences. I think she needs the interaction and the experances for "survival". soo off to public we go!

mammag replied: Obviously I voted for Homeschool since I just started it. It is something I considered from the time I had Kristen. I have serious issues with the public education mainly because it is what I did myself. Those issues were starting with my own children and I knew that I couldn't continue to send them there every day. I'm sure there are some homeschooled children who are not socially adept but I can also tell you I run into public schooled children and adults who attended public school who could learn a thing or two about how to behave in social situations as well. I think it's more about the personality. I don't think it will affect my kids in a negative way. We already have many upcoming social activities planned and I'm finding that it is bringing us closer already. In fact, social situations was one of the considerations of mine for homeschooling. I have not been happy with many social things going on in the public school already.

In fact, Jeanne gave another of the reasons I am homeschooling, the fact that they teach to the average child. Is there even such a thing as an average child? Each child is soooo different and when you try to tailor the education to the "average" many kids lose. It's too hard to give individualized attention to one child when you have a class of 27 and have to deal with trouble makers. Let's face it, they are the ones getting the attention, not the quiet child in the back of the class getting poked with a pencil by one of her friends. When I went in for P/T conferences it didn't seem like they had a clue who Kristen was as an individual. All they cared about were the numbers and she was doing "just fine" so no problem.

I don't feel it is bad for anyone to send their kids to public, private, or what have you, school...it's just not for us.

I should clarify.....we are technically going to public school. We are using a Virtual Academy that is funded by my tax dollars. They provide the curriculum, I have to log 920 hours a year for each child, they take the standardized tests, etc. Many homeschoolers would take issue with me calling what we do homeschooling our children but it's the easiest thing for me to say. We are using a curriculum that some homeschoolers use on their own it's just that we don't have to pay and if I am stuck on something, they have a teacher that I can call and talk to. We have scheduled field trips with the school and with our teachers "class" so there are plenty of chances for socialization as well as the individual activities they are involved in.

Anyway, I think any option can work, it just depends on the family and what you put into it. Oh, I also wanted to add that even with e-schooling you really have to look hard at the programs because there are really some bad options in that route also. Some of the schools have a far inferior curriculum that I would never settle for. The program we are using, Ohio Virtual Academy, was just recently rated #1 in eschools for our state. Bill Bennett (former secretary of education) is on the board with K12, Inc. which is what we are using. It is a very impressive curriculum and I am very confident that I will be providing the best education for my children. I'm so excited about it (as you can probably tell )

Sorry, I didn't mean to go on and on......

punkeemunkee'smom replied: We homeschool and we love it! I am from a homeschooling family that has produced some of the most well adjusted,AMAZING and talented people I have the joy of knowing! I am very blessed to be in a situation where we can homeschool and have just as many activities and social interaction as a public school student.

mom2tripp replied: Obviously Tripp is too young to go to school but next year I will be a school teacher at one of our public schools here in the county and fully intend on sending Tripp to a public school as well. There are many positive and negative points that can be made for homeschooling, private schools, and public schools. I think it's really what works best for your family. Of course I'm biased bc I went to public schools all my life and plan on teaching in one. I think public schools have a lot to offer today's youth. I also don't really like what's being discussed about public teachers teaching the "average" student in the classroom. Even though some classrooms have 20-30 students most teachers will tell you that they have an individual relationship with each one of their students and work with each one to develop full potential.

JAYMESMOM replied: I chose other because we chosen to put Nick in a charter school. He did not recieve the education he should have in Kindergarten from our local public schools. He has thrived in the charter school environment and we are very happy.

If money wern't an option though he would be in private school.

I was homeschool from 2-7th grade and then went to private school for High-School. I had no problem adjusting there or when I went on to college. I had friends in the neighborhood and people would not call me socially shy or inadequate. I can go into a room full of people I don't know and fit right in.

Some of it is a personality thing. I am dealing with knowing Jayme will be 5years8months when she goes to Kindergarten because of her b-date. I am disappointed because if she continues on this trend then she will be ready. I started school at 4yrs 8 months and did just fine. Every child is different and think a parent should be able to chose. In MI if the child is 5 by dec 31st then they must go to kindergarten. I think parents should have the right to wait an extra year though. My son was not ready and should have waited but we couldn't. Luckily we had great teachers last year for 1st grade that brought him up to where he should be.

I will probably send Jayme to a Montessori or private Kindergarten and then have her test the next year into 1st grade when the time comes. I don't want her bored in school.

Kay Bear's Mommy replied: Even though that's a good 3 years down the road for us, we plan on homeschooling Kayla. Please, no one get mad, but DH and I strongly disagree with sending children to school, public or private, simply because we don't think that children get an adquate education in school. We think they can learn better and focus better in a more comfortable environment...there's no place like home!

PrairieMom replied: The preschool that I am sending The Boy to is a Christian school, but when it comes time for "real" school I will be sending him to public school.

ashade75 replied: My children go to public schools. I would love for them to go to private schools, but then I would be working 24/7 to pay for them (lol). And as far as homeschooling, I really wish I had the patience. (but MommyToAshley, I think you would be a good candidate and you are right Ashley is very birght for her age)

I think the important thing is, whatever road you chose with your child, you make their education a #1 priority and stay invovled.

**** Now I have to brag a second, my oldest DD, Brittany who is a freshman, ranked #1 out of 387 freshman in her class first quarter with a 4.2 GPA. We are really pround of Her

A&A'smommy replied:

I disagree I was home schooled and I didn't like it I don't feel like I learned everything I needed to learn it varies for every child. You can't always say that your child WON'T get an adequate education because that is NOT always true some children learn better at school.
Now I think it would be different if you said that you didn't think it would be right for YOUR child but not right for you but not to say that about all children...

Alyssa will be going to public school we have a WONDERFUL school system all except our middle school and I'm hoping by time Alyssa is there it will be better if not we will consider something else until high school. I want Alyssa to have the experience of school that you don't get when your homeschooled things that I really wanted to do!

MamaJAM replied: Our girls currently attend a private Jewish school....and we plan to put the boys in there when they are old enough. The school goes Pre-K through 8th grade....once the kids hit high school - I'm not sure what we're doing (and DD#1 is in 8th grade this year).....the school district we live in isn't that great - we can't afford to move - and there are no private Jewish high schools in the area.

C&K*s Mommie replied: with fingers crossed, and more convincing of Chris~~ I hope to send the girls to a charter school that comes very highly reccommended, or one of the only Montessorri schools that we have. There are also several private schools, too. That are reasonable~ but Chris cannot see 'paying' for an education when public schools are "free".

luvmykids replied: First of all, all nine of my cousins have been home schooled, and of the two who just finished high school one is in nursing school and the other is majoring in elementary education. All of them are wonderful, intelligent, charming people.

Secondly, I went to a very small private school for elementary then a bigger private school for middle school and public high school. The elementary school was not really traditional and we worked at our own pace within the same grade. In high school I was on honor roll every quarter and tested in the top 25% of the country on my ACT/SAT's and had an academic scholarship to college. My point is I had small private, mid size private, large public schooling. And still I fell apart in college! The moral to the story is one size does not fit all.

Depending on where we live, I don't know what we'll do. I know I absolutely cannot homeschool, I am not nearly disciplined enough. We live a block from the highest rated elementary school in our state, if we still live here I will send them there. If we move back to the country, I don't know. The schools are less than great but IMO school is not only what they learn there but also how much the parents participate in the whole school experience, at school and at home. I didn't learn EVERYTHING at school, my mom taught me a lot. She didn't leave it to the school to decide exclusively what to teach me.

Everyone's got an opinion on this, and a valid one, but I don't think anyone can or should say one is right or wrong across the board.

LovinMyGirls replied: Public School