Homeschoolers - article I read

mckayleesmom wrote: on another site I go to....Thought I would post it here and get your thoughts..I didn't know you had to have credentials in some states..

Homeschoolers' setback in appeals court ruling
Bob Egelko,Jill Tucker, Chronicle Staff Writers

Friday, March 7, 2008

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Arial
(03-06) 14:26 PST LOS ANGELES --

A California appeals court ruling clamping down on homeschooling by parents without teaching credentials sent shock waves across the state this week, leaving an estimated 166,000 children as possible truants and their parents at risk of prosecution.

The homeschooling movement never saw the case coming.

"At first, there was a sense of, 'No way,' " said homeschool parent Loren Mavromati, a resident of Redondo Beach (Los Angeles County) who is active with a homeschool association. "Then there was a little bit of fear. I think it has moved now into indignation."

The ruling arose from a child welfare dispute between the Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services and Philip and Mary Long of Lynwood, who have been homeschooling their eight children. Mary Long is their teacher, but holds no teaching credential.

The parents said they also enrolled their children in Sunland Christian School, a private religious academy in Sylmar (Los Angeles County), which considers the Long children part of its independent study program and visits the home about four times a year.

The Second District Court of Appeal ruled that California law requires parents to send their children to full-time public or private schools or have them taught by credentialed tutors at home.

Some homeschoolers are affiliated with private or charter schools, like the Longs, but others fly under the radar completely. Many homeschooling families avoid truancy laws by registering with the state as a private school and then enroll only their own children.

Yet the appeals court said state law has been clear since at least 1953, when another appellate court rejected a challenge by homeschooling parents to California's compulsory education statutes. Those statutes require children ages 6 to 18 to attend a full-time day school, either public or private, or to be instructed by a tutor who holds a state credential for the child's grade level.

"California courts have held that ... parents do not have a constitutional right to homeschool their children," Justice H. Walter Croskey said in the 3-0 ruling issued on Feb. 28. "Parents have a legal duty to see to their children's schooling under the provisions of these laws."

Parents can be criminally prosecuted for failing to comply, Croskey said.

"A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare," the judge wrote, quoting from a 1961 case on a similar issue.

Union pleased with ruling
The ruling was applauded by a director for the state's largest teachers union.

"We're happy," said Lloyd Porter, who is on the California Teachers Association board of directors. "We always think students should be taught by credentialed teachers, no matter what the setting."

A spokesman for the state Department of Education said the agency is reviewing the decision to determine its impact on current policies and procedures. State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell issued a statement saying he supports "parental choice when it comes to homeschooling."

Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific Justice Institute, which agreed earlier this week to represent Sunland Christian School and legally advise the Long family on a likely appeal to the state Supreme Court, said the appellate court ruling has set a precedent that can now be used to go after homeschoolers. "With this case law, anyone in California who is homeschooling without a teaching credential is subject to prosecution for truancy violation, which could require community service, heavy fines and possibly removal of their children under allegations of educational neglect," Dacus said.

Parents say they choose homeschooling for a variety of reasons, from religious beliefs to disillusionment with the local public schools.

Homeschooling parent Debbie Schwarzer of Los Altos said she's ready for a fight.

Schwarzer runs Oak Hill Academy out of her Santa Clara County home. It is a state-registered private school with two students, she said, noting they are her own children, ages 10 and 12. She does not have a teaching credential, but she does have a law degree.

"I'm kind of hoping some truancy officer shows up on my doorstep," she said. "I'm ready. I have *beep* good arguments."

She opted to teach her children at home to better meet their needs.

The ruling, Schwarzer said, "stinks."

Began as child welfare case
The Long family legal battle didn't start out as a test case on the validity of homeschooling. It was a child welfare case.

A juvenile court judge looking into one child's complaint of mistreatment by Philip Long found that the children were being poorly educated but refused to order two of the children, ages 7 and 9, to be enrolled in a full-time school. He said parents in California have a right to educate their children at home.

The appeals court told the juvenile court judge to require the parents to comply with the law by enrolling their children in a school, but excluded the Sunland Christian School from enrolling the children because that institution "was willing to participate in the deprivation of the children's right to a legal education."

The decision could also affect other kinds of homeschooled children, including those enrolled in independent study or distance learning through public charter schools - a setup similar to the one the Longs have, Dacus said.

Charter school advocates disagreed, saying Thursday that charter schools are public and are required to employ only credentialed teachers to supervise students - whether in class or through independent study.

Ruling will apply statewide
Michael Smith, president of the Home School Legal Defense Association, said the ruling would effectively ban homeschooling in the state.

"California is now on the path to being the only state to deny the vast majority of homeschooling parents their fundamental right to teach their own children at home," he said in a statement.

But Leslie Heimov, executive director of the Children's Law Center of Los Angeles, which represented the Longs' two children in the case, said the ruling did not change the law.

"They just affirmed that the current California law, which has been unchanged since the last time it was ruled on in the 1950s, is that children have to be educated in a public school, an accredited private school, or with an accredited tutor," she said. "If they want to send them to a private Christian school, they can, but they have to actually go to the school and be taught by teachers."

Heimov said her organization's chief concern was not the quality of the children's education, but their "being in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety

luvbug00 replied: Gonna be honest here but i have basic knolage on hsing. i believe parents get together and stuff with other hs families and have curriculam meetings and such an i thought they had govenment guidelines the kids had to meet. so why would a parent have to be so well educated?? ( as by my spelling you can see i am not, who says the one of the richest school systems in america has good teachers? HA!)

5littleladies replied: I can tell you this is making the rounds among homeschoolers everywhere and people are very upset about it! In MN we have specific laws that protect a homeschoolers rights but there are 20 or so other states that do not have protective laws (obviously CA included) and that needs to be changed! There are so many studies out there proving that not only do homeschoolers do just as well as their otherwise educated counterparts, most of the time they do better, and it has nothing to do with a parents' education or lack thereof. On the contrary, parents who homeschool who haven't even completed high school themselves almost always have kids who do significantly better than other kids. If I lived in CA I would probably move.

My3LilMonkeys replied:
I am curious...how can a parent who has never completed HS teach their kids things they never learned? Do they just learn right along with the child or rely mainly on books?

Another example would be the new math they teach - it is WAY different than I ever learned to do math and I don't know if I would be capable of teaching it to my child unless I studied up on it first.

I am too lazy to read the whole article, but the part I did read I don't agree with. As long as the homeschooled children are getting an education at least equal to what they would receive in public school, I don't see what the problem is.

~Roo'sMama~ replied: That's just wrong. Well I guess I have at least one reason to be glad I live in freezing MN instead of sunny CA!

5littleladies replied:
Often times I would say that yes, they do learn along with their child. I know that as I am teaching my children I am learning things that I never knew! In the younger years it is fairly easy-there so many curriculums out there and such a wealth of help and information on the internet and in homeschool support groups, it's really hard to go wrong. As the kids get older, well in my case I know there are things that I might have difficulty teaching, but even then there is so much out there to help me make it work. I have many other moms I can turn to who have strengths that I don't and vice-versa so we can help each other out. There are homeschool co-ops available that offer certain classes for kids (I have a friend who teaches biology in a co-op), plus many people don't know this, but if you homeschool you have the option of sending your child to as many or as few public school classes as you wish. I know some parents who send their homeschooled kids to public school for language lessons. And if you don't want to look to outside sources there are lots of curriculums and resources that you can use to do it all yourself-this will often involve a parent learning along with the child.

Parents who homeschool have so much invested in their childs schooling that it really doesn't matter what their education level is-They will do whatever they can to ensure their child has a wonderful, and thorough education.

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
Yeah, me too .

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
Well said Jennifer! I know when I think about homeschooling high school, I freak out some. But then I think about all the resources available, and realize we will be OK. I've only graduated high school, but I was on the A honor roll the whole time, and am confident I can teach my kids what they need to know.

luvmykids replied:
I don't homeschool, but a friend of mine brought me some of her curriculum and I was amazed at how much they break it down for the parents...it even says "Now ask your child these questions" and "Once you've written the sample problem, have them do this" etc....it basically tells you EVERYTHING to say in the lesson plan so I think it's definitely feasible for a parent to teach their kids things they don't know.

~Roo'sMama~ replied:
Yep - my sister and I were home schooled all the way through high school, and I know, for my mom anyways, by the time we got up to those grades, we were pretty self sufficient and could just do our work without much help. When we got to the point in the book when we were supposed to take a test, we'd get out the test book and do it ourselves. My mom would even give us the key when we were done and let us grade our own papers. (and no, we didn't cheat. I think we were the two most honest and UN-cheatingest kids there ever were. )

Now days too, we have so many resources out there. I'm planning on homeschooling my kids and I'm sure I'm going to be taking advantage of the internet, the library and local homeschooling groups to help me out.

my2monkeyboys replied: It's a shame that a single family that isn't doing right should cause a law to be passed/upheld against all the others that are. That's our governments at work for you!
I, too, am a homeschooler, and I would hate to see the day that our state takes that right away from us. It's just a shame, but unfortunately it will probably not be long-coming. It seems that once liberal old CA passes a law, the other states are just that much more interested in doing the same.
I hope the HSLDA gets in on this... it'll be interesting to watch.

bawoodsmall replied: It is a shame. I dont homeschool and honestly dont have any desire to. IMO it is like everything else you reallly have to take it as an individual basis. I know two people who homeschool. One of them does an awesome job and the other one I think is doing her children a disservice. She does not teach them at all and I am not kidding.

my2monkeyboys replied: The problem I have with those who are against HS is the fact that they can not show that the children who attend school elsewhere, be it public or private, are in any better shape than those who HS.

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
Yes, exactly!

Hillbilly Housewife replied: I send my kids to school... but i do some "homeschooling" too. Both kids in school are way above the rest of their class.

I graduated high school, but that's it. It doesn't mean I'm uneducated. Someone on here even actually thought I was a med student or majored in science or something like that once... a couple years ago.

Being educated doesn't mean you're smart. I know plenty of people with degrees who are dumb as doornails... a major doesn't get you by in life. Funny how my uneducated butt has a longer better resume than most university grads I know.

What I personally think ppl are up in arms against HS for, is that HS doesn't take nearly as much time and effort as "school". I mean.. the kids are in school from 8 to 3 (average) and then they come home with homework. What for? It's just wasted time. Both for the teachers, who claim not to have enough time to teach it all... and for the students who have to sit through it. I know I certainly wasted tons of time in school... I was tested as gifted, I had a 154 IQ at 7 years old. I was usually practically done the work by the time the teacher got done explaining it and answering questions about it. I'd have benefitted from homeschooling. A HS'er can do all the work from that day in about 2 hours....not 6 hours plus homework time.

And no, my math doesn't suck... i considered 2 15 minute recesses and a half hour lunch, which is what i had in elementary school.

my2monkeyboys replied: Exactly! It's much easier to teach a few students than it is to teach 25 the same thing. Esp when you have control over them as opposed to a lot of classrooms today where there are 1-2 students who continually act out and cause the lessons to take longer.
As for homework, I think if you can't teach the kid what he needs to know in the 8 hours you have him each day then something is wrong.
And before anyone mentions it, when it comes to socializing, most HS children I know are more adept than adults at carrying on conversations and using their manners, regardless of the age/background/race of the other persons. Any parent that has their child's interest at heart is sure to have them involved in plenty of social activities.
Plus, when you think about it, how many minutes in a day do regular school children get to socialize with their peers? They may be sitting next to them all day but rarely are they allowed to freely talk/play with them outside of recess, you know?
Anyway, I just think it's awful.

skinkybaby replied: Sounds like a few bad apples ruining the bunch. And that's a shame. I don't think you should "take away" home schooling for all those that want to do it just because there are a few parents out there not doing their job. Heck, you even get that with kids sent to school. Like someone else said, even if you send your kids to public or private school parents should still be doing some home schooling. It angers me to see parents who leave everything to the teachers and makes no effort in helping their child learn.

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
Yes, yes, yes. PS kids have so many rules about what to wear, what to do, and when to talk. It's hard for them to be individuals when they need to conform to so many rules for the group.

Boo&BugsMom replied: I don't homeschool but I like the fact that I have the choice to be able to if I were to some day. This article makes me angry. The part that ticked me off the most is when someone stated parents have no right to teach their own children. Um...excuse me...NOONE has the right to tell me what to do with my children, and certainly not how to school them. As long as they are passing in their work then it should not be an issue.