Homework Load - How much is too much?

redchief wrote: Last night my DW called me at work to inform me my 12 yo DD was still doing homework. It was 10:00 PM and except for a small break for dinner she had been at it since 5:30 PM. I told my daughter she was finished for the night and wrote a "not too nice" letter to her homeroom teacher this morning. I've had "discussions" with the teachers about over-homeworking the kids... Things change for a short time, but we always wind up with a new letter every month or so.

Some of the excuses are unreal.

Boys r us replied: I voted for 1/2 hour to 1 hour. Now I realize once they are in high school, it probably will require a bit more than that. But for right now, I think 1/2 is more than enough!
Good for you!!!! I would have done the same thing, that's ridiculous!

Littlejojames replied: When i was at school we had around 5 lessons a day and got homework of each one. Some where ok which was just like one question one answer but then we had horrible teacher that gave us loads which we did end up spending around 3 hours doing them which i think was not fair.

Children spend all day at school and a night they sould be time for the children to play and develop other skills.........

booey2 replied: I voted 1/2 - 1 hour because here they are only allowed to assign up to 1hour of homework each night. However, I know of instances where the child doesn't finish their work in class for some reason they have to finish it at home and still do the assigned homework - so this can make it seem like they have alot more to do at night. I know my day will come too where I will get angry about the amount of time they spend doing it but for now I am happy with what he has been given, Matthew is only in grade 1 and we have seen very little homework as of yet.

jcc64 replied: I have real issues with too much homework, particularly elementary aged kids. I think it's critical that kids pursue their own individual interests such as sports, dance, whatever. And I also resent the intrusion into much needed family time. A half hour or less is fine, but my son spends every second he's not eating dinner or at soccer on homework right up until bedtime. It's wrong, wrong, wrong, and I intend to speak with his teacher about it.

kimberley replied: i voted 1/2 - 1hr also but actually it should be less since my kids are in grade 1 and 3. Teri is right about the classwork though. the couple of times i complained to the teacher about Jacob having 2-3 hrs of homework, she said most of it is stuff he didn't finish in class. they should make sure he finishes his class work at school imho!

Kirstenmumof3 replied: It's funny you should bring this up. We just had a conversation with our DD's teacher. Emily had spent 2 hours one night on her math homework. I re-read the note that the teacher gave us at the begining of the school year and it said that homework should not be more than 20-30 minutes, if your child is spending more time to come and talk to the teacher. I'm glad I did talk to her teacher because it turned out that the whole class and the teachers were having problems with this new math. I don't think any child should be made to spend more than 30 minutes on homework, unless of course it's a project and that of course needs more time. But think of it this way when you go to work usually you don't have to take work home with you. My DH of course is the exception to this rule and is always doing extra work at home (I think he's a work-aholic) If you are concerned I would definately talk to the teacher!

ediep replied: I am a 7th grade science teache and when I was working I never assigned more than 15-30 min of HW per night and actually, I didn't give HW every night.

redchief replied: Thanks for the reinforcement so far. I have no problem talking with the teachers... I've been doing it a long time and being involved in adult education I have an idea for what, at lease IMHO, is appropriate. Which leads me to this somewhat humerous (but only somewhat because the message was clear) story.

On the very day of "Back to School Night" (a night in which parents are invited to the school to review class goals for the year with faculty) my daughter came home with her homework. There was approximately two hours worth of homework and she had work in each of her subject areas. This entailed bringing home every textbook she had. I weighed her backpack (and there was NOTHING extra in it) in at 32 pounds (over 1/3 of my daughter's body weight). Quiet and unassuming person I am, I halted the homework, gathered the backpack and myself and headed off to school. Starting with the superintendant I had each of the people who interact with Kaitlin during each day lift the pack. In doing this many of the other parents took up the battle with me. It wasn't a pretty night.

The Super said we shouldn't use this occasion to complain, but to listen to the teachers and schedule a conference if we had a problem. Sound like divide and conquer to you all? Me too!!! I quickly reminded him that since I paid his salary and the school operated because of the taxpayers and not in spite of them, that I would complete my mission that night.

At any rate, we haven't had a repeat as of today. Handouts for homework have become more the norm so that text books don't have to be lugged home. I'm much easier with this, and NEVER allow my daughter to do more than two hours a night. I prefer an hour or less, but I understand reality. As far as unfinished classwork goes, my most common answer to that excuse (and that's what it is) is that poor classtime planning on the teacher's part is not my child's fault.

I pay them to teach my children. Punishment is my job.

MomToMany replied: Good for you!! It's ridiculous what some kids have to do. My older boys (6th & 4th grades) have some homework every night. Logan (the oldest) has maybe 30 min. of work to do, and Quentin (4th grade) has 1 worksheet and his writing journal everyday, which takes him about 15 min. to get done. Logan takes home 1 textbook on occasion, but not all of them at once.

I voted 1/2 to 1 hour at the very most.

My2Beauties replied: Being that your children are older I voted 1-2 hours since when I had homework in high school that is about the amount of time I spent. In elementary aged children I think no more than 1 hour, and even that is a little too much, especially since they get out later than high school children! At least in Kentucky they do! I remember those days when I was lugging a backpack around that weighed as much as I did and my mom was like this is ridiculous!!! My DSD is 8 and her homework usually takes her about 30 mintues, she is in the 3rd grade, I think this is appropriate. If she was doing homework from 5:30-10 with just a small break inbetween my butt would be marching right up to that teacher ASAP!!

ctymom replied: I think they give way too much homework these days. What do they do in school all day? And sometimes, my kids have been sent home with homework they barely went over in class. Homework is supposed to be practice.

My son Dylan used to have so much he just couldnt finish it no matter how hard he worked. He would get so worried that he'd wake up at night and try to do his reading and we would find the book in his hands in the morning. He didnt remember doing it either.

I finally called the teacher and told her that he is getting way too much homework and I told him to stop working on it.

Pamela

maestra replied: Unfortunately, your responses are not the norm. If I do not give enough homework, (even in Kinder!) I get parent complaints that are even taken to the principal. I believe that children work hard all day, and should have that free time to explore and have new experiences. At kinder, they get about 20 minutes of homework per night, but it is things that parents should really be doing anyway (ie reading a story before they go to bed, etc.)


As for comments like " I pay them to teach, punishment is my job." Or "What are they doing all day that they send home so much homework." please remember that there are teachers on this board, and that I would not attack you or your profession because of a single bad teacher. And, unfortunately, giving consequences for inappropriate behavior that happens during the day IS my job.


If you would like to know where all the goals come from that have been set for the year, see your congressmen and state board of ed if you live in the us. They are the ones who decide the curriculum, often making harsh demands on children and teachers. In Arizona this year, kindergarteners must be able to do their addition facts to 10 (and write out the equations). This is the goal when only 7 of my 19 children could count to 10 when they came in, much less counting objects one to one (one number per object to find the total number of objects)

Something to remember- often, if a child has been sent with extra homework that they did not complete in class, it is because that child made poor decisions as to how they spent their working time that day. (For example, the child who decided to talk to their friends while they were supposed to be working on it, or the child who spent time in time out because of physically hurting another child.) That child should still have to do their work.

I'm not defending all teachers, there are always bad apples in the bunch (as is true with ALL professions). They are actually the minority. But it is amazing how quickly people love to get together and teacherbash. I know I'm always the "devil's advocate" on the subject of schools, but maybe you will find value in my opinion.

kimberley replied: i have the utmost respect for teachers who devote their careers educating our children and building the future but find the current school system unorganized and unsupportive. the expectations are too high and there is not enough support imo. aren't teachers in a better position to fight the congressmen on curriculum guidelines? i am not saying parents shouldn't play an integral part in their child's education but a lot of us don't know where to turn beyond the school board.

think of it this way, if you as a teacher, are frustrated that most of your kids can't count to ten but are expected to do addition to ten... how do you think those kids feel? i just think we all (teachers and parents) need to take a more pro-active stance against this type of thing.

and for this comment...


i guess my case is different because Jacob is on an IEP and should have extra help that he needs to finish things in class but i don't see that happening right now. he is 7 years old. he cannot keep up with the amount of work thrown on him and his confidence is once again dwindling because he is overwhelmed. and even if he was chatting during work time, isn't it the teacher's job to make sure he sits down and does his work? when i was in school it was. i have spoken to his teacher and the principal many times this year already and she claims to help Jacob but he still comes home with hours of homework. next week we have a meeting so i can specify what additions i would like to see in his IEP. i am not a teacher or psychologist... i had hoped they would know what teaching techniques would work best for him. oh well. i will do the best i can.

maestra replied:
Unfortunately, no. The legislature view us as a bunch of whiney employees, and often threaten to replace us with computer programs and and technitions teaching from textbook scripts. The phrase "stop whining about too high expectations or we'll rate you as underperforming and fire you" is basically heard all the time here in the states.

Children are disciplined by the teacher for inappropriate behavior, but many children have been taught to have so little respect for the teacher that those punishments can still be ineffective. There is actually a teacher next door to me that has a child tell her "F*** you" when she disciplines him. He is 5 years old. Today when I sent a child to time out for getting too roudy in his center (just giving him some cool off time so that he could re-focus and return to his work), I found him with his hands down his pants and playing with himself (also not uncommon for kinder boys- the seem to be fascinated with that area at that age).

I wish teaching people were an exact science. Unfortunately, it's not. It can take a long time to find what really works for a child. Sometiems it's just trial and error to find what really works. By this time next month, I will have 3 children on IEP's, and 1 more who needs one, but has parents who won't take her to the dr (a free clinic arranged by us) to get the diagnosis she needs. (She has non-contracting pupils in her eyes, and we suspect she can actually only see shadows) I still am not totally sure if I am even reaching one of them, and am happy because he finally stopped making screaming noises all day long. I wish this were an extreme case, but it's not.

The good thing in your case is that you were proactive and got Jacob on an IEP early (although things are different in Canada than the US, so I can't speak to the Canadian education system). I hope things do get better- maybe it would help to try to go in and observe for the day? I know it would be hard to get childcare for Jade, but then you could really see what was going on. And I'm just curious- what kind of homework is she sending that takes him hours to do? I can't imagine it at 7. I never assigned that much homework when I taught 1st-3rd multiage, but then again, I am completely against homework for children below 3rd grade. ( But assign it because I have to) Also- where is the special ed teacher if he is on an IEP? He should be getting individual or small group time with that teacher (either in the class or in a pull out setting). The spec. ed and regular teacher should be working together on the homework assignments to make sure they are appropriate.

ctymom replied:
I don't believe it is an attack on a profession but rather individuals are speaking from experiences in their situations.

I have personally had bad experiences with a number of teachers. There have been a few that were good so I wont say my comments are speaking for all teachers. I've delt with teachers ranging from being fired for abuse of the students, childish rude teachers, teachers who say they will do this or that and then do nothing, calling students names. And so on. Even with that, (and its not even the tip of everything) I dont judge all teachers. But the comments are not attacks by any stretch of the meaning.

I have to say that in my experiences, too much homework has been the norm. I've heard many complaints about it from a few different schools. It's also been in the news along with complaints regarding the backpacks being so heavy. (Which really makes me mad....I never had so many books in school!)

And from my understanding of the comment by Redchief... "I pay them to teach my children. Punishment is my job" was stating "that poor classtime planning on the teacher's part is not my child's fault." Not saying that if a child misbehaves that he shouldn't be punished.

This reply isnt an attack on your post maestra. So dont take it as such. I'm just expanding on the topics mentioned while letting you know that the posts are not personal attacks on your profession.

Pamela

A&A'smommy replied: I voted 1/2 to an 1 hour but I totally believe that the once you get into highschool and middle school that you should be give a little bit more with grade but NOT five hours worth. I think I would like being a teach I LOVE children and I think I would have a good time with them....

kit_kats_mom replied: I really think that parent/child interaction, extracirrucular activities and just time being kids (riding bikes, playing outside etc) are super important in a childs development. I actually like the idea of a little bit of homework, if for nothing else to keep the parents up to speed on what the kids are doing in school so that they can reinforce it at home.

for example, when K starts school (if we don't home school) my goal is to be involved. If she's studying Spain in social studies, maybe we will go out to eat at a Spanish restaraunt or cook a Spanish meal. If she's learning about civics, perhaps she will read the paper to me while I cook dinner.

Unfortunatally, I know that many parents are not as involved as most of us on this board are. Many parents may be really happy that their kids have tons of homework because that can let them off of the hook to entertain the kids. Many parents don't read to their kids every night etc. It makes me sad but many families just have different priorities....the teachers can't just give homework to some kids and not others so I see where they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Maybe a "only students with a "B" or better grade dont' get as much homework and give the rest of them increasing homework with decreasing grades? I dunno. Maybe that would be an good incentive for paying attention in school.

ediep replied:
yes, this is what I was trying to say yesterday.

ctymom replied:
I just wanted to clarify my statement b/c it was bugging me. lol I didnt tell him to stop working on homework in general... I just have him stop working for the night when I see he's working really hard and there's still no way of him finishing it. Every child needs some 'me-time' to wind down before bed. It's not healthy to wake up in the middle of the night, half asleep, trying to finish homework.

Not sure if anyone really thought twice about this but it was just bugging me. I hope I didnt make it worse trying to explain what I meant. I'm so exhausted right now.

Pamela

kimberley replied:
she is there but she is 1 teacher to over 400 students. she usually doesn't work with Jacob directly. they have a volunteer who comes in named Hailey. Jacob worked with her last year also and is comfortable with her. i haven't spoken to her this year, but hope to soon. unfortunately she is not their everyday and works with other students too. on those days, Jacob does the work that everyone else does in the class. those are the days he comes home with lots of homework.

an example this week was,

1 paragraph about family
1 prayer about Thanksgiving (10 lines)
1 page of spelling and study words
1 page math
reading 20 minutes

Hailey usually helps him complete the writing work and does his spelling tests with him if she is there... but it is not consistent. we are meeting next week to hammer out the specifics.

maestra replied:
Not having time in regular intervals with a Spec. Ed endorsed teacher for a child who is on an IEP would be ILLEGAL in the U.S. You would have grounds to sue the school, and the teachers, and could collect a monetary settlement, as well as have the school under an investigation from the Office of Civil Rights. It is not ok to just give him time with a volunteer and count that as services. I would demand that he recieve his services from the spec. ed teacher, and that those take place at least 4/5 days a week for a certain time period.

We have 2 spec. ed teachers, and our enrollment is at about 850. The teacher pulls the children out to her room, and they work on the objectives that those children are needing to work on at the moment, as opposed to helping them with regular classroom activities (although they will do that for the older ones so that they still feel like they are doing the work).

Was that homework the homework for the whole week, or just one night? I could see it for a week (though it's still a little much) but not for one night. Typically, the homework for one night at that age should be to read for 20 minutes, and one of the assignments from the list. (And with separation of church and state, I could never ask a child to read a prayer about Thanksgiving )

I know it's not easy to watch him go through this. I'm glad that you are so involved. I wish parents like you were the majority, but you're not. I get many parents that tell their child "Go do your homework" so that they won't have to deal with them (and they tell me so). But then I get the parents that just make me all warm inside becuase they tell me- "We didn't do the homework because we went to the museam instead." Or "We got caught up in reading this new book I bought and ran out of time. Can he do it tomorrow?" Great! I love that stuff! It's so much more valuable then paper and pencil work anyway.

kimberley replied: that was his homework for one night and you wonder why i get frustrated. the writing assignments (prayer and paragraph) should have been finished in school but Hailey wasn't there that day. spelling, reading and math (or french or writing) is what he gets usually. it is just so hard to watch him lose the confidence we worked so hard to build last year because he is overwhelmed.

i didn't realize the special ed teacher had to be the one working out the IEP. i know she does all of the assessments and testing and reports personally but was under the impression that these volunteers (in collaboration with the class teacher) are the ones to carry it out. i will look into it further.

and about the prayer, he attends a catholic school, so it is expected. i have so many concerns and can't understand how every parent doesn't get this involved in their child's education. i was actually upset with the school for not involving me more last year. i would LOVE to observe but unfortunately i don't think they will allow it and child care is an issue.

thanks for the advice and chat. you made my evening fun and educational

redchief replied: I too have a daughter with an IEP. In Elem school she had 2 special ed teachers. This school had a total of 92 students in her eighth grade year and she still had one to one with 2 special ed teachers. It is federal law and it is funded outside of local school taxes (combination of state and federal funds). Her IEP has been modified as she got into high school to in-class assistance. This aide is there every day, and a substitute is there when she is unable to be there... We also have bi-annual review of the IEP with the study team and her special ed instructors.

Now this isn't the daughter that had the homework problem, but I understand how homework can effect a child with learning difficulties, not to mention taxing the parents.

I in no way intended that this become a parent vs. teacher standoff. I was basically seeking an opinion on my own feelings regarding appropriate time spent on homework. What we often do on review of the homework book is have Kaitlin complete at least part of the assignments given so that the teacher may see whether she understands what she had to do. Projects and completion dates are placed in the book also so that time may be allocated to it and there isn't "last minute" crunching.

maestra replied:
In the US, they can't keep you from observing all day if you want to. They can discourage it (it does tend to make us a little nervous- like having your boss look over your shoulder all day) but can't stop you.

And you're welcome- I hope it helps.

redchief replied: I know, maestra, how you feel about having parents in "observing" all day. The truth is it isn't LIKE having your boss hang over you... It IS having your boss hang over you. Unfortunately you have as many bosses as you have students (usually x2), but the unfair thing there is that usually only a one or two parents think that extreme is necessary. The squeaky gets the grease theory often applies here, because in my experience, the parents that do that are those who assume it is the teachers' and the system's fault there child isn't heading straight for the Dean's List at Harvard. And these people make noise.

We (the Home and School Assoc.) actually chased one mother (and, unfortunately her children) out of the school because she spent better than 1/2 of every day in the school. It made the administration squirrelly, it made the teachers paranoid and it made the other parents feel unheard. She decided that she would home school her children when we pressured her to give the school a little space.

I truly feel for the teachers because they are in the middle of this struggle between state mandated performance standards, cranky parents, frugal and demanding school boards and a disciplinary system that allows a single child to disrupt an entire day. With that in mind any time I disagree with a teacher about anything (too much, not enough, whatever the problem may be), I begin with a note to the teacher (NOT the principal; I dont' think that fairly allows the teacher & parent an opportunity to discuss and solve) outlining my problem and ALWAYS that is followed by an offer of conference at the teacher's convenience. I will discuss with DD's teacher on Tues. AM our problem yesterday. In the past I have found this to be best way to deal with problems without letting it get too personal (no one likes their work critiqued), and it gives the teacher time to look at my complaint and set up alternatives.

I believe that dialogue is good between teacher and parent, but I don't think it's fair of us as parents to direct every move the teacher makes. At that point we might as well home school. We want our children to be exposed to different and innovative teaching styles, and even though our elementary school system is very small, we've got excellent teachers!

maestra, keep working on those parents with the child with visual acuity problems. My daughter's IEP is directly related to learning difficulties due to poor vision. She has a rare and often misdiagnosed or undiagnosed eye disorder that, fortunately, my DW and I caught when she was very young. If there's any way I can help, contact me!