I have to ask again.... - previously posted success

boyohboyohboy wrote: I know I have asked, ok begged for help with this before.............and I thought that we were getting a handle on it, but oh was I wrong!

I have not slept in 2 1/2 days except for small one hour increments, Jake WONT sleep!

He is nursing to sleep, then falls asleep, I stick him in his crib, and he sleeps for about an hour and then its only one hour intravels from there....all night all day.

I am seriously losing my mind. I get so tired come 2-3 am, I feel myself just wanting to shake him.
I of course WILL NOT, but I dont like how I feel about him right now.

I cant ask DH to help, because of his work schedule.

Does anyone have any ideas left on how to get this child to sleep?

I am holding him for naps during the day, as suggested by Dr sears.

I am waiting on a book from DR Tobin on sleep, although it says there is a window of time to get a baby into a good sleep habit, its 6-8 weeks age.

I really dont want to go to the CIO method, I am against it, but I am afraid we might be headed in that direction, only because I am going to have to walk away from him.

HELP PLEASE!

amynicole21 replied: Will he take a pacifier? Try reading the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley... she has loads of good ideas for this kind of thing. The first of which is getting baby accustomed to NOT nursing to sleep.

We have the same problem, but that's the reason I always just keep the kids in bed with me

I hope you get some sleep soon!!

boyohboyohboy replied: Jake refuses a pacifier, or his thumb, he has never learned to sooth himself.

He was starting to eat some solids, but has now stopped. I am nursing him but I do feel my supply is low, which is just compounding the problem, cuz he might be hungry. I think with little sleep, and stress, and not realy able to eat when I am so tired, did I mention I also have another child to care for, that I am dwindling my own supply down.

Kirstenmumof3 replied: You sound like you are getting a little bit of PPD. And this is definately being caused by your lack of sleep. It might be possible that Jake is going through a growth spurt right now, I remember Claudia nursing every hour round the clock. Is it possible that he is teething? Is there a Lactation Consultant you could speak too? I only mention this because the LC I was seeing was wonderful. I know this will also sound wierd, but does he still use an infant car seat or is too big? Claudia loved sleeping in her Car Seat, you could try that or putting a pillow/book under his mattress to elevate it a little. Have you talked to your paediatrician about any possible reason for Jake not sleeping? Have you talked to your own doctor about how you are feeling? I hope this bit of info helps. And I hope that I have not offended you at all! Take care of yourself, even if it's just time out for a cup of tea!

One other thing, is he too big for a swing? That always helped with Claudia as well!

boyohboyohboy replied: Kirsten, you have not offended me in the slightest, I am so thankful for any ideas to bounce around!
jake is 17 pounds, my swing says the limit is 15, he is also in a larger then infant seat, He has always hated the small car seat.
I cant sleep with him at this point, I am so scared of rolling on him as tired as I am.

I havent talked to his ped. because he wanted me to stop BF and make Jake eat. He called it reconditioning him. I am against that. I want to BF as long as possible, and I had just started solids. I am afraid if I cold turkey him from BFing that he wont get enough to eat. He has not been gaining weight the way the dr would like, but he is still within his limits as far as height.

I feel tired, but I dont know if it PPD. I have taken the quiz as you suggested the last time. I am feeling guilty about complaining mainly because I know Jake is going to be small only a short time, and I want to cherish this time with him, but its so hard when he is driving me nuts, with this sleep thing.

I am reading anything and everything I an get my hands on,
thanks again for the help

redchief replied: We've done this. Time to wake up daddy.

Kirstenmumof3 replied:
Please don't ever feel guilty for venting! That is what we are here for! I totally understand the breastfeeding! Claudia was so small and the doctor kept wanting me to start her on solids, he told me I would have to quit if I went on antidepressants. Claudia didn't start solids until she was over 6mths and really didn't get the hang of solids for a few months. Maybe try the solids again, but try something different. I really hope you get some sleep. I couldn't co-sleep with any of my children, I was always afraid I would roll over on them, so I understand your fear. Is there anyone that can come and take Jake for a few hours, just to give you a bit of a break!

amymom replied: Does he have reflux? Unfortunately, my dd did not sleep for 2 years, and sleeping with her was the only way I got sleep. Sometimes reflux will only manifest itself in pain within the baby and not in spitting up or anything like that. Elevating part of the bed may help.

I wish you much luck. And maybe a respite, with a friend caring for him for a few hours would help you rejuvenate?

Bamamom replied: I think the first step is getting someone to take him for a few hours so you can get some sleep. If you're exhausted everything seems 10 times bigger and harder to handle. Just last week I told DH to take DS and GET OUT for at least 4 hours. They did and I met them at the car crying cause I had missed them so much. But you need some YOU time.

Have you tried laying down on the floor with him? Once he gets to sleep you could get on the couch and nap yourself. It works for Tripp and I. He wants me close as he goes to sleep but I don't cosleep because I'm scared of something happening to him.

HTH!!! Sending sleep vibes to Jake!!!!

boyohboyohboy replied: I am taking jake to the dr's this am. I didnt even think until reading the post this am, that it could be reflux. I have it, and so do many family members. Jake was treated for it when he was first born, because he spit up so much, but that resolved itself, and we stopped the meds.
Oh I will feel so bad if it was due to pain that he wasnt able to sleep all this time!

It makes sense to me now, that he is able to fall asleep after nursing, the milk is cool and coats his throat, and in 45 mins to an hour of laying flat he is up screaming, like he hurts, I thought it was his teeth....but if its reflux, then he wants to nurse again, so the cool milk coats his throat and we go thru this hourly all night and day....

UGH sometimes I feel so stupid!

holley79 replied: I'm sorry sweetie. I wish I could help.

~Roo'sMama~ replied:
Don't feel stupid. As tired as you are I wouldn't expect you to remember your own phone number. I hope the doctor can help, and you and Jake can start sleeping!

Boo&BugsMom replied: Stacy, is it possible, since he's falling asleep while nursing and since you hold him during naps, that he gets upset that you're still not there when he wakes up? Some kids are like that. Just a thought. Sorry I can't be more help.

my2monkeyboys replied: I think a trip to have the reflux checked is great. Then, as was posted above about kids crying when they wake up in a different place, you should probably start trying to get him to go to sleep on his own. When he falls asleep with you holding him and then wakes up in his crib, it probably frightens him. Kind of like if someone pushed your bed out into the yard while you're sleeping... it'd freak you out a bit, right? When you first start getting him to fall asleep on his own he may fuss some. I know that crying it out is not an option for you, so maybe you could try that Ferber (?) method where you go in and talk to him, etc. every few minutes until he falls asleep.
I will say though that however you do it I'm sure there will be some crying involved. Just know that you are helping him greatly in the long run, as it is so much better when they can fall asleep/stay asleep and therefore they'll get better sleep.
Also, if at all possible, get someone to come stay with him a few hours so you can nap... that will help you tremendously.
I'm sending you lots of sleep vibes!!!

msoulz replied: Did you find anything out about the reflux? Any better sleep??

boyohboyohboy replied: I am sorry I didnt update on this, I am just so discouraged. The dr didnt really feel it was reflux, she feels he is having some teething pain, but she felt that I needed to once again, STOP BFing, and stop feeding him on demand.

So as a last resort, I have spent the day at the library, getting some books. I just know that I cant handle the CIO method. I do realize that no matter what I do at this point there is going to be some crying. I am not sure if its going to be me or jake. But I got the baby wise book, and again the no cry method.

The dr feels that I have let Jake become in charge, by feeding him on demand this long, that the cues I was using that were really for anything, I mistook for hungry and everytime he made a peep I offered him a feeding. I admit I did, but he cant talk so I didnt know what one cry meant from the other. I guess she is basically telling me I have made him spoiled.

So he is now waking because he wants to be with me.

so we are going to go thru some kind of process to decrease his feeding....
its just I have NO idea how to start this, and just thinking about how much he is going to cry is already bothering me.


so keep your fingers crossed...

PrairieMom replied:
Have you tried baby signs? you can teach him the work for "more" and a few other words, then when he is hungry he will tell you. We started signing with The boy at about 7 months and he started signing back at about 8 or 9. It made things ALOT easier.

I don't really think you can spoil a child by demand feeding, but I didn't go to medical school either. Have you thought about seeing somone else?

boyohboyohboy replied: I actually am considering seeing new dr's. I do intend to be blunt on my next visit which is in two months. I am going to ask them if they are Bfing friendly, and if not then leave.

I got a book today, called the no cry solution for toddlers, since I guess thats more what Jake is now. I am going to see what it suggests. I am a little more encouraged that it mentions toddlers, not just babies...

I am half way thru the baby wise book, and well to be honest with you , feeling pretty bad. It has told me that, basically I have messed up Jake. It said that if you demand feed, then you teach a child that they need immediate gradification, that they cant self sooth, or self play. they are insecure unhappy children who dont sleep...
thats Jake.

so I am in search now of the easiest way to undo what I have started. I hope he doesnt have to CIO.

I swear I will so know better for the next baby. I should have tried bottles sooner, I should have kept at it, and left him with others once in a while so he wasnt so attatched to me...

He just gives me this look with that little lip hanging down, its the worst thing I have ever seen, why not just rip my heart out with salad tongs!

really I am ok, its just going to be a long few weeks...

msoulz replied:
I also demand feed, and Erin is not the best sleeper (she did sleep through the night from about 4 - 6 months, then got teeth, and according to my doc her waking now is a habit), but she is not insecure or unhappy. That is one person/group's opinion, and my opinion is that their opinions should not make you feel badly! You have been doing what is right for you, and maybe now it has to change, but that's OK!

I did the same thing with my Jake, who was a terrible sleeper, but he got over it around 18 months and he is a great kid. Now I realize getting up two or three times each night is very different from every hour

I am curious about these no cry solutions as I tried the CIO method and it seemed crazy to let her scream for an hour when I could have her (and me) sleeping in 10 minutes. I don't understand how being left to scream can make a kid secure and happy???

Anyway, when you do come up with your solutions, please do share! I hope you find peace soon, but please don't let the so-called experts make you feel badly!

MommyToAshley replied: I understand how you feel... Ashley did not sleep through the night until she was about 10 months old and then she didn't sleep consistently through the night until after a year old. I also didn't have the heart to do the Ferber or CIO method. To be honest, it was when I night weaned Ashley from BF that she slept through the night. (I only weaned her from the night time feedings)

To night wean her, I made sure she was getting plenty to eat (including BF and solids) during the day, and then when she woke up at night, I had DH comfort her. He would rock her or hold her, but it had to be DH because if she saw me then she wanted to BF. In the beginning, she was nursing two or three times a night, so I would still feed her one time and have DH get up with her the other two times. Eventually she was only getting up at the time I had been nursing her, and slept the rest of the night. (we were down from three feedings to one) So, we cut out the last feeding... DH did the same thing and would get up and comfort her and rock her back to sleep. After a few nights of this, she stopped waking up to BF and started sleeping through the night. She was nursing at night for comfort, not nutrition. We just replaced that comfort with DH rocking her, and it was an easier transition than I thought it would be. I would suggest at least giving this a try when your DH has a few days off... he may have a few restless nights, but you ALL may end up getting more sleep in the end.

And, I agree with your decision to find a doctor that is more pro-BF. My ped was very pro BF, but another doc in the office made a remark that 16 months was a bit old to be BF. I requested never to see that doc. My ped also suggest that I try the CIO method but when I told her I wasn't comfortable with that, she never brought it up again. It's important to have a ped that you feel comfortable discussing these issues, and that doesn't seem to be the case.

Keep us informed... I hope you get some sleep. Hang in there, I can honestly tell you that it doesn't last forever.

MommyToAshley replied:
I agree... especially since none of the experts can agree. One says to hold your baby and the other says to let him cry to get him to sleep. All babies are different and what works for one might not work for the other. I know how easy it is to blame yourself, but I honestly believe that some babies just sleep better than others. Just like some babies smile all the time and others are more serious.

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
I couldn't agree more. I've been there and was about to lose my mind and I had to MAKE DH get up and help me. He works a lot of hours and doesn't get much sleep, but his job is not anymore important than mine and if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. You NEED your rest. Find a way to get some rest. Can you leave him with someone a couple of days a week?

I hope you find a solution, hun. I know how frustrating it is. I was so sleep deprived until Ethan was about 14 mos old and started sleeping thru the night. There are still several nights a week when he will wake up. It doesn't take much of that to wear you down.

PrairieMom replied:
What a crock. Jake may fit the bill, but I don't think that you have totally ruined your child by meeting his needs. IMO, you need to open a window and throw that book out of it. you are a good mother who happens to have a difficult child. follow your heart. You know what is best for your child, just don't forget , you need to make sure your needs are getting met too.

boyohboyohboy replied: you guys made me laugh! I was reading that book till way late last night, hoping I guess for some miracle page to pop out of it, and finally got so frustrated, I thru it down the stairs. So I know it wasnt an open window, but it went for a ride regardless.

I have asked a friend to come and watch Jake today while I go out for an hour. Jake needs to get used to others watching him. He just gets so upset when I am out of arms reach. I mean crying till he gags, and cant catch his breath.

I know this is something I let get out of hand, but boy is it hard to be the mean mommy now.
I did talk to Dh about the signing book, and we think it might help us communicate with Jake, so he can at least understand we are not trying to be mean to him.

I just know in my heart I cant do the CIO method.

Jake did eat for Dh last night and slept from 930-130am so I got some sleep there adn feel more refreshed today.
Yesterday when I went to fill his prescription they asked me his birthday, and I couldnt remember it! I knew then I needed some sleep.

I am thinking it might not be GERD, only becuz I have been trying to be more attune to what he is doing. I know he is waking 45 mins into a sleep cycle, but if it was pain from GERD would he stop as soon as picked him up?

I think this weekend we are all sleeping together on the floor!

Thanks agian for all the help you guys have given me!

amymom replied:

Yes, yes, and more yes. Especially if the pain is 'minor'. First, Gravity comes into play and that gives some relief. Second, He will stop, because he 'believes' you are going to fix the pain. So his emotions calm down. You are his center and he gets relief just knowing you are going to make him feel better even when you have NO idea what to do!! I hope I explained that correctly.

Lots of hugs and I hope you get some rest today!

Boo&BugsMom replied: I'm a little confussed why the doctor's still want you to stop BF all together. I can understand the putting him on a schedule, etc. But, why do they want you to stop BFing if that is all it has to do with? I think you can form him into a schedule and everything, maybe stop the nighttime BFing if you have to, without having to wean him all together. I don't see the logic in that. The doctor doesn't make much sense to me in that regard.

PrairieMom replied: I'm sure all this has been addressed already, but I am racking my brain trying to help you out, so...

have you tried swaddeling? or sleeping proped up in a seat? I like to swaddle Ally, and put her in her bouncie seat with a passy, she falls asleep every time. Have you tried proping the head of the bed up? what about using a sleep positioner to help him sleep in his side? those are ways Ally likes to sleep.

We also have a little vibrator thing that goes in the crib that we use to help Ally sleep. it has a function that makes it start up when the baby starts fussin. It makes a heart beat sound too.
http://www.thefirstyears.com/products/prod...asp?pValue=3094

Is he on solids yet? can you give him a little cereal before bed to tide him over a little?

Boo&BugsMom replied: Oh, that reminds me. Does he sleep to music at all? Tanner has been sleeping to music since he was a baby. It soothes him pretty quick. When he was a baby he also had that little electronic fish aquarium from Fisher Price that played music and lit up. That helped him a lot.

My2Beauties replied:
Kirsten's car seat thing had me thinking. Does he have acid reflux? Are you laying him down on his back in a crib or a bassinette? The reason I ask is because Hanna had reflux really really bad so laying in a bassinette or crib was out of the question until she was around 7-8 months old, the only thing she would sleep in was her car seat. Once I started putting her in her car seat at night - we all slept much much better! Just an idea.

ashtonsmama replied:


Same as Amy here.

ashtonsmama replied:
You DON'T need to stop BF! Don't do it unless you want to. I'd get a different doctor myself.

boyohboyohboy replied: ok, so here is what we are working on now. I have been encouraging as strongly as possible for Jake to take solids, it is getting better. I think his teeth are bothering him and he doesnt want the spoon in his mouth, but he is taking more. from what I have read, on here and in the books, he needs to get a higher calorie intake during the day.
I am also going to try the very detailed, and very helpful idea of night weening.
and I am enlisting DH help.
I just got the no cry sleep solution for toddlers from the library.

so we are armed and ready.

I think that I am nursing to much during the day but for to short of periods, I think he isnt getting the hind milk, and is nursing constantly day and night because he is hungry. I am not sure how to make sure he is emptying so I am block feeding as much as possible.

I think thats about it..

thanks guys for sticking with me here!
I did get three hours of consecutive sleep last night!

Dont give up on us, we will update on monday!

jennie, you asked about the bfing, and I think the dr's think if he stopped bfing then he would get so hungry he would agree to take solids and he would sleep better...thats what I think they are saying.

and I cant remember who else asked, but he refuses a pacifier, and he also just started the prilosec for acid reflux, but we are not sure thats it.

I truely from reading the books, now and watching him think he isnt getting enough calories during the day, and he is up eating..

ok..thanks again

msoulz replied: Fingers crossed for you!! Not wanting to be greedy, let's hope for 4 hours tonight!!!

Erin has always been a snacker too. I don't think she has ever nursed more than 15 minutes, and it is usually 5 or 10. I have wondered about the hind milk thing too, but I guess she is just efficient. Plus I nurse only from the one breast, so maybe that makes a difference.

She doesn't seem to like food too much either, except cereals, which she does enjoy. I'll bet if I gave her a Hershey bar she'd chow down!! These veggies are just not cutting it!!