I need some help with caleb - parenting advice

boyohboyohboy wrote: I am having some real tough issues with caleb. He is 7yrs old and in first grade.
He has made honor roll every semester this year. He is also at the head of his class. He is way ahead in reading and math for his age.
the problem is, he is in trouble daily. he doesnt get into fights, he doesnt talk back..but he cant stop talking in class. His teacher gives you two warnings if you get in trouble. the first time, you get your name on the board, the second time your name goes on the board again, and the third time you lose recess...well needless to say he hardly gets recess...
she says when he is done with his work and is supposed to be quiet he talks..he is supposed to go to a center and read or do other work she has set out, like word finds, but he talks to the other kids in those centers..she has all the kids desks in the shape of an "U" but caleb who is in front of her desk touching her desk to his..so he isnt near anyone else to talk too..
we only found that out because we had to pick him up early this week and went to his class. the teacher never told us, even though right now we get weekly reports on is behavior. We get a book that shows either a smiley face for the day or a check mark..most of the time its been about three checks a week..today it was three checks for three days of school..
now this has been going on since the start of school, but she said he was improving at one point..apparently not..we have spanked him, but he is getting to old for that, and we cant spank him hard enough anymore for it to hurt..I mean we just cant do it that way..it feels wrong.so we tried taking away his wii time.he earns wii hours for the weekend by how well he does at school..he hasnt played the wii forever..he lost his toys, we threw them out..he lost time with friends..no tv..there just doesnt seem to be anything that bothers him enough to deter him from doing it again.
when he is home we yell at him , ground him he gets upset, cries and says he is going to be do better, then goes to school the next day and it starts again..
we are at a loss...
I have asked the teacher if she feels he isnt challanged enough and is bored in class..but she says no...
what would you suggest now?
he only has one semester left, but he is so immature for his age..he did go to preschool so he was aware of how to act in this setting..I dont want this to cont. into second grade..I am sure his teacher hates him, I wouldnt want to deal with him like that daily disrupting the class...he is the worst kid in his class...

help..

boyohboyohboy replied: I forgot to add the reason today has totally pushed me over the edge is today..he went to school and was pretending to do his "fighting moves" he was a gedi, and he kicked a seat in the caff..and broke it!
he has never gotten into fights with the kids, he doesnt hit others..he just has his head in the clouds all the time..every second of the day he is doing this spitty gun noise..no matter what it is..fingers, toothbrush, silverware..if you have boys I am sure you know what I mean..
but he cant seem to stop it!

moped replied: Stacy,

Jack isn't as old as Caleb but I do want to offer hugs at least. While I was reading it I was going to suggest taking things away, but it sounds like you already have. When you take it away does he earn it back? When we take things away they are gone forever. Does he get an allowance you can take away? Is there anything he REALLY cares about??

I have spanked but I am not certain they are effective. Jack just thinks I am horrible and I feel even worse after.

Typical of me, but is he getting 11-12 hours of sleep a night? Does he eat good balanced meals?

I am also not sure about the effectiveness of a reward chart, because I always feel I am giving him something and rewarding him for things that he should be doing anyways.

I sure wish they came with a manual!

boyohboyohboy replied: I used to give the toys back but that started to fail because he knew they would come back eventually, so we started throwing them away..and we started with the toys I knew he loved the most..It was one of the hardest things I have had to do.

I cant do that spanking anymore, because hitting him into submission just doesnt sit well with me...I mean as a young child a small smack on the hand would take care of it..he wasnt that hard to dicipline..but now, he was getting spankings on the butt, on top of his pants by dh and he wouldnt even flinch..
he even said it didnt hurt..the thought of the spanking and sitting in his room until dh got to him was worse for him..but now he knows its not going to hurt so that doesnt work, and we would never hit him with an object.
so spanking seems ineffective..

we do have a chore chart, and that was working, it has 7 things on it he needs to do each night, and gets a sticker for it..one is no "d" or "F"'s on school papers, no name on the board, he has to clean up his room nightly, and wipe down the table. he has to brush his teeth..not hard things..well he started to skimp on them, and then come sunday when it was time to get the money, he got 0.25 and then with tithing and savings, 10% each he hardly got anything so it didnt mean any thing to him..and also if those things were done each day he earned 15 mins towards his weekend wii time, and the total was 3 hours possible for the weekend, well he hasnt earned the wii in a month.

we took away his tv and favorite shows..
he just has his head in the clouds all the time..pretends he is a jedi, or some kind of good/bad guy and is always in some imaginary battle..he doesnt get violent or fight for real, but you can ask him to stop and 5 seconds later he is at it again..
now he has started to lie about it..he made this thing on paper the other day and the teacher knew it was an ax and when asked he said it was a screw driver..so when he got home he told us the story and I knew it was an ax or at least a battle weapon and he cont. to lie, and then finally said ok, it was an ax, and so he got in more trouble for lying about it..

unfortunetly the kid has so many toys, and all kinds, that he doesnt really have one that means more to him then the other..every time we think we know which one is more fun we take it and he just finds something else to play with..I mean even in time out in the corner alone, he is playing with his hands in the air!

he is creative..imaginative, and darn right driving me nuts..my dh is going to meet wth the teacher next week.

MommyToAshley replied: If he is finishing his work ahead of time - and he's getting them right, not just rushing through it for the purpose of being done quickly so he can play - then I think maybe he isn't challenged enough in school.

I am not sure what to tell you on the discipline. Maybe the teacher will have some ideas.

Just a thought, but maybe you should limit some of the shows/cartoons he watches that deals with fighting and guns if that is what is bothering you the most. I took Ashley to see Kong Fu Panda at the theatre and I was surprised how much fighting there was in the movie. DH said, "duh, what did you expect" LOL. Anyways, after the movie, Ashley went around all the time practicing Kung Fu. I had to repeatedly tell her that I didn't want her acting out fighting and DH explained to her that it's not about the fighting but discipline and Karate/Kung Fu should not be used for fighting. I still don't let her watch cartoon that are about "fighting" the bad guys. We still watch "Martha Speaks" and Curious George.

Kentuckychick replied: Since I'm not a parent, I have no real "parenting" advice to offer, but as a teacher I want to offer you some advice from another point of view.

I would have a serious conversation with his teacher about her methods of discipline. It is totally understandable for a teacher to put a child's name on the board or take away some fun activity during the day as discipline, but taking away a child's recess should NEVER be acceptable. There was a school here in Kentucky that got into trouble not long ago because there were several classes that used "taking away recess" as punishment.

Recess is necessary for children who are active and energetic. Recess should be the time when your son CAN socialize and get out that extra energy. Personally I think if children had recess twice a day (once in the morning and once in the afternoon) they'd all talk a little less!

I've dealt with several "constant talkers" in my classes and the thing is, I've never seen any method of discipline work. Talkers are talkers and it seems to be something they just have to outgrow. Personally, I would ask the teacher if maybe she could assign him special jobs to do to keep him busy and quiet.

luvmykids replied: I really agree with a lot of what has already been said, especially recess. I understand the teacher (and for that matter, the school, it may be an across the board type policy) but it seems pretty clear that he NEEDS that time to burn some energy and they get so little as it is without it getting taken away.

I agree too with Dee Dee on what he's watching, maybe trying some redirection would work. Is there anything outside of school you can get him involved in? Sports, Awana, anything to give him an outlet of sorts and also something to boost his confidence?

Also, what Rachel said about outgrowing it...we went through a little of the talking problem with Colt and he still doesn't pay attention like he "should", he brings home papers that are blank and the teachers note saying "We did this together in class, please talk to Colt about doing what we're doing." When I speak to her, she says he is good, grades are good, etc, he just isn't always on task. I do think some of it is a boy thing, and some of it is a talker thing that will just (hopefully) get better with time.

I feel bad for Caleb, he must dread school everyday knowing he will get in trouble Does the thought of a visit to the principal do anything to him? I wonder if instead of losing recess he had to face the principal, would that bother him? At home the only thing I can think of is to practice in small amounts of time, sitting still and not talking for two minutes and getting a reward of some kind, even just lots of praise like "See? You did it! Lets try one more time." Nothing "negative" seems to be working, I get torn like Jen and don't want to reward them for something they should be doing but at the same time sometimes it just takes the extra encouragement to get them to really want to do it.

I hate to say it, but money is a big motivator for my kids, they'll do anything to avoid losing their allowance or for the chance to add on to it, if that's an option financially maybe .50 for every good day so he has the chance to rack up enough that it would matter to him.

Kaitlin'smom replied: Kaitlin is a chatter box but not to much in school unless she is board. The teacher saw this early, she would always finsh her work first and it was always right, she was not being challenged. Thankfully the teacher saw this and started giving her more work, usually the pages they dont do in class, something else like coloring, sorting, reading or even helping another child who just did not get it. They use the stop light system everone starts on green, you get a warning then it moves to yellow, one more warning then to red and if landed on red its off to the principal. She has had it move to yellow 3 times but never to red. She tells me each time the first 2 were early in the year and once the teacher reconised she needed more to do it had not moved in months, the last time she said it was casue she was tring to first ignore another kid that was bothering her but she ended up chatting to much at them and both of them moved to yellow.

what I am saying is it really sounds like he needs recess to let off some energy and more work to keep him busy.

lesliesmom replied: Thank you so much for posting this. Although my son is almost 6 and only in Kindergarten, we have similar issues. The whole "head in the clouds" and chatterbox thing describes Christopher exactly. Nothing is working for us either. He has lost the computer for almost a month now for bad days. As far as I know, the teacher does not take away his recess but does make him have a "lonely lunch". I have no problem with this because I think he enjoys it. It gives him down time and time to regroup but after he "regroups" watch out.. it starts all over again.

I will be following this thread closely for suggestions because I, too, am at a loss. I do think he is bored in class (he was home sick last week and I gave him 1st grade math pages to do, which he did no problem and he is reading books his sister read towards the end of 1st grade) and although I have mentioned this to the teacher, either she doesn't see it or has a hard time giving him extra.

mckayleesmom replied: We have the same issues with Mckaylee. That child cannot be quiet for more then 2 seconds.. .

There are a couple of things I agree with

1. The child should not be held back from recess...

2. He isn't being challenged enough



Instead of going to centers when he is finished with his work..maybe the teacher can ask for his help in doing things...Putting stickers on papers, wiping down tables....Something that would make him feel like he was doing an important job by helping the teacher.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Stacy...I could have written that post myself!!! We are going through the SAME exact things with Tanner. He is getting grades above almost the entire class...he is in the top 3. He doesn't get in fights, isn't agressive, but he talks out of turn ALL the time instead of focusing on what he should be doing. Like you said...his head is in the clouds sometimes, and being a boy he is SO impulsive!!! He doesn't think before he makes his choices half the time.

I emailed the teacher the other day. I didn't get much of a response back, but I told her the same things that were mentioned here....that taking away a recess isn't going to help because he NEEDS his recess. I also told her detentions (has gotten 1 so far, but almost got another one this week) were uncreative and that he needs creative punishing. I don't think she cared for that much...oh well. To me, it IS uncreative for their age to sit in a glorified time out after school. Oh well...if she wants to take it as if I think she's uncreative...so be it.

I have often thought that Tanner is still bored at school. He brings home his homework and breezes through it in minutes! I am wondering if Caleb's teacher doesn't want to say he's bored because she #1...doesn't want to do extra work to challenge him, and #2...knows she may be part of the issue (lack of patience, etc.) and doesn't want to admit it or work on it with him.

Part of the issue we have with Tanner's teacher is we think she is uber picky. It's like he can't do anything right by her. He brought home a test one day...got an A+/100% and I noticed some doodling on the back with a little mark that said "caught doodling on paper". My first reaction was "So what. The kid got 100%, was it really necessary for you to scold him for doodling and then have to tell me?". If that were me I simply would have said "No doodling please, put your pencil down", and left it at that. BUT, she makes mountains out of molehills. I still don't even know if it was after or before the test, but if it was after...who cares??? Ironically, whenever we get a newsletter or such home, as I'm reading it I find numerous grammar errors and mistakes in her letters. I am tempted to highlight them and send them back to her! If someone is going to be as picky as she is, she should try leading by example a little better. Afterall, she IS the teacher!

I honestly don't know what advice to give, because we are in that same boat with Tanner. Troy tells me the same thing...only a few more months and he's done with her, but then what happens next year if he gets a teacher who is even more picky and impatient? Don't get me wrong...Tanner is not innocent at all, but the way she goes about things with him I believe do not work.

I have battled the homeschooling issue in my head, which I am still praying about. I just wonder if the environment isn't working for him. I have talked to dozens of homeschooling moms I know and they all are combating for me and educating me about it all. I'm just praying right now...which is about all I can do at the moment. As great as he's doing acedemically, his self esteem, self-worth, and love of learning is just as important, and I slowly see that fading. I don't want to ruin that for him if that is what will happen keeping him there.

Praying hard...

Boo&BugsMom replied: Stacy, I also want to add this.

The way boys learn is SO different than girls...and really, kids in general can be like this. Boys need to be active. They need to be able to move around. They need to always be busy. Tanner is this way a LOT. When I am quizzing him on things, I have to allow him to be moving around while he's telling me his answers. Not jumping or hyper type stuff, but just moving because that's just how boys are! He's moving around, and even though he looks unfocused, the moving around is actually helping him to focus. It is REALLY hard for kids to get that type of environment in school, because they are landlocked to their desks all the time, IMO.

boyohboyohboy replied: Caleb hardly watches much tv. He gets about 2 hours on week days, and most of that is watching the wiggles and the littler kids shows....he gets one show on weekends which was star wars clone wars..but that has since ended..
his imagination is what causes all these "battles" the kids in his class tell him about things they watch and he acts them out or plays out scenerios..he is so imaginative.
I really dont think its the tv that causes it.

he has done this since he could walk and talk..we didnt allow guns or any type of that stuff in his life at first, I was set in my ways that I wasnt going to allow those in my home, well then his fingers, toothbrush and silverware were guns, even though we didnt watch it..I think its just something boys do..had he had barbies they would have shot people!

I actaully talked to a friend of mine and she has suggested that we start doing more positive rewards then dicipline..
so if he gets A or B he gets 5 mins wii time each day he earns it..then he gets wii time for each chore he completes.instead of constantly taking things away..
I can see how if you had an entire chore board to do, and then on monday messed up and lost most of the wii time or money then whats the point of doing well the rest of the week. money doesnt motivate caleb because he has no concept of what things cost.

we are going to meet with the teacher as soon as we can..my dh has always said that boys and girls shouldnt be taught in the same class, that boys cant sit still..they are more physical learners.

Jenny, I will say that hearing that caleb isnt alone is a huge help. I was really starting to feel like a bad parent..He is a good kid, and we can control him at home but this teacher just doesnt seem to like caleb. I have posted before how she picks at him. I think that he got off on the wrong foot and she just has assumed he is a bad kid ever since. we told caleb that if he gets a bad rep. then he is going to get blamed for things he doesnt even do...

I am going to try this positive reward system for a while and see if it helps. I took him to breakfast and shopping with me today and we spent some time together and he seemed to respond well to that..
he is however going to miss the easter activities because he destroyed school property due to breaking that chair..we felt that was serious its just so hard to be consistant sometimes..

Boo&BugsMom replied: I wonder if not allowing the play guns at all is making him want to do it more? Kids are like that. A friend of mine had the same issue with her older boy, ironically named Caleb. He would make guns out of everything. A friend of hers suggested allowing him to have a toy one. So, she did, and the making guns out of everything stopped. They set rules with it, and it solved the problem.

boyohboyohboy replied: we only didnt allow guns until he was about three, then gave up...and he has had them ever since.
I do think it made the entire thing seem more interesting by not letting him do it..
and he was doing it anyway..
he knows not to point them directly at anyone, and we discuss regular gun safety, but its really not about the guns when he is at school.
He mainly just plays out what his imagination tells him. Its not always guns, its not always fighting but the majority of the time it is..sometimes its just trucks running things over..or what ever it is that causes boys to make that noise..then one that requires more spit then girls have!

I dont have a problem with him having a gun. his issues are being disrespectful to the teacher by talking and being disruptive by talking..and not paying attention.
His grade are perfect..until this week nothing had ever been broken before. I dont think he meant to break it, he was playing karate and kicked it and must have hit it just right..but we told him breaking school property is very serious. I am sure he has just a horrible reputation at school. I dont know that we can do anything about it. I just want this year to end with out incidence and get on to the next teacher..I am hoping in such a small school its possible for him to get a second chance..if the teachers dont talk and set him up for a bad time in second grade too.

He seems so immature for a kid his age. I cant get him to pay attention to what is going on around him..he could never be responsible enough to cross the road alone at this age. I dont know if thats normal for his age, but he cant..he doesnt keep his attention long enough. I also worry about strangers because when we talk about stranger danger he says he gets it, and answers right, but we have been in situations where he chose the wrong thing to do.
do you think being so immature is normal for his age?

I guess I also call it naive, and thats partly my fault because I never let anything happen to him. I just cant seem to let go enough for anything to happen to him... we dont allow him to go to parties alone or to other kids homes..I am to afraid of something happening.
so he is immature and naive because of me..dh is always for letting him go a little but I cant.

luvmykids replied:
Anytime we've had a party, the other parents stayed....I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem next time he gets invited if you took him and stayed, it might do both of you some good

MommyToAshley replied: I would never let Ashley cross the road without supervision either, and she always stops, looks and listens twice before crossing. But, it only takes one time of missing something, so right now she holds my hand or Rod's hand when she crosses the street. And, we have the parking lot rule... she must hold our hands in the parking lot. Maybe it's being over-protective but I don't care when it comes to safety. So, I don't think you are holding him back there.

As for going places alone, I only let Ashley go certain places without me... to girl scouts and to a very good friends house. I've stayed at the birthday parties that she's been invited to, but I try to stay back out of the way unless the parent needs help with something. I personally don't think that is holding him back either.

It sounds like you are in a tough spot because academically he is either on target or advanced. So, you wouldn't want to hold him back a year. But, I am not sure what you can do to help him mature socially except to give him some time. I have always heard that boys mature more slowly than girls, and it may be that he just needs to grow out of it. I think you are doing the right things with being consistent. I like the idea of positive rewards. It may just take time.

boyohboyohboy replied:
I wouldnt want to hold him back a year because he has the odd birthday that already allowed him to start kindergarden when he was 6..so he is older then most of his class.

I am not around other kids his age often, so I felt he was behind a little in maturity, but maybe not.

Kaitlin'smom replied: I to wont let Kaitlin cross the street alone she must hold and adults hand and I have the same parking lot rule, I dont care if I am over protective about that I woudl rather her be safe.