Jennifer - cameragirl - Ok, you guys wanted it!

moped wrote: So I was reading your reply to Tara's vegetarian post. You stated that it is the healthiest choice you can me to quit eating meat. Aside from smoking and tanning, all 3 of which I LOVE to do bTW....

Anyways, I think i want to argue this a bit with you. I know that too much red meat is not good, but it certainly isn't unhealthy to eat it. And chicken is the first thing a trainer etc will tell you to throw itno your diet for protien and muscle building etc. Fish is big as well as pork, all very healthy if cooked correctly. And please correct me if I am wrong, but if you aren't eating meat you have to get hte protein and nutrients from another sourse, like tofu etc...........so I guess that you can't really say meat eaters aren't healthy people. I don't know your reasons for the vegetarien choice, maybe the killing of animals, the taste, etc.........and you dont' have to answer that.

So while I agree wholeheartedly about the smoking and tanning, I cannot agree with the cutting meat out to be healthy. And children need a balanced diet, including meat. I don't know wht you follow, but we follow the Canada Food guide (American food guide) for a healthy balanced diet.

lovemy2 replied: I agree whole heartedly Jen - I thikn people who go veg and do it to be more healthy aren't really always being more "healthy" since you are cutting out a major food group and a very important item - protein - I can understand people arguing that meat and how its processed and how the animals are fed raised, etc. may not be the best but there are free range chicken and other organic meat for that - I think veg is more a personal choice or a belief - as you said - animals, etc. I know someone who has gone vegen because she wasn't feeling good - that is a whole different thing......balanced is just what it means....

moped replied: My niece was a vegetarian and has now gone vegan, she is unhealthy to the point that her father (BIL) has had to intervene in her diet. Doctors and dieticians are currently trying to help her get her healthy again, she is 14 years old and has been a vegetarian for many years "because her mom is" (which I don't think is a good enough reason)....we are all very worried about her choices. If you saw her you would understand!

TheOaf66 replied: yeah try and take my red meat away

mckayleesmom replied:
My sister is the same way...and she is a so called physical fittness trainer....Her whole body is falling apart. The last time I saw her she looked like a cancer patient...very sickly. She has had a number of surgeries from it also...There is such a thing as cutting to much stuff out of your diet.

moped replied: Oh I totally agree bri......my niece is not good at all right now - they are trying to convince her to start slowly eating meat again - he is SO SKINNY......OMG skinny!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I an not saying that all vegetarians are like that, but she is an extreme case for sure!

DVFlyer replied: IMO, our bodies are designed to process meat and therefore I eat it. Just like we are designed to process veggies etc. We are omnivores which, to me, means we should be eating both meat and plants.

Plus, if God didn't want us to eat meat, he never would have invented the BBQ.

moped replied:
Now that is so true!!!!!

mckayleesmom replied:
I just think that some people's bodies can't handle not having meat.

I for one get really moody if I haven't eaten some kind of red meat at least once a week.


I can't even tell you about the issues my sister has had...hair falling out, looking like a skelaton, stomach and digestion issues....and her bowel issues are to disgusting to mention. Yet..she still keeps doing it.

PrairieMom replied: OOH! yeah! is this the fight for the day! FINALLY! its been a while since we have had some good deep conversation around here.
Meat isn't the only place you can get protein, its in beans, nuts and dairy too, and we aren't cutting out dairy or eggs. Plus, I'm not exactly weight training here, just living my nice normal mommy life, so I'm not really trying to bulk up or anything.

moped replied:
Oh for sure Tara, I know you can get protein from many other sources.......not arguing that at all!!!!

PrairieMom replied:
I wanted to argue!

moped replied:
Oh ok......yes you can get protein from other sources, but to cut out a whole food group out of your diet cannot be healthy at all.......now granted I have not done my research on this. I am a meat eater, not as much as DH. Almost every meal will include meat for him!!

I guess my not so healthy niece got me thinking about this!

mckayleesmom replied: My sister eats all that and then some, but she still gets really sick from it.

Like I said though...some people it works for, but I don't think its healthy for everyone.

mckayleesmom replied:
UGh..your husband is just like mine...He is a meat guy.

moped replied: My kids love meat too!

PrairieMom replied:
I suppose it depends on what kind of meat you are eating. Highly processed meats that don't even resemble the kind of "meat" they are supposed to be, things like turkey bacon that have all kinds of additives to make turkey taste like pork, that kind of stuff is not so great.
If you are eating farm raised grass fed hormone antibiotic free beef from a cow you personally met, thats a different story.
We aren't. by WE I mean me and MY personal family.
We are eating beef from confine raised cattle (ever smelled one of those? ) that have been injected full of hormones so they won't take as long to grow so the ranchers don't have to pay to feed them as long before taking them to slaughter. Then they are processed again at a processing plant, (ever smell one of those? ) before being trucked to the store.

stella6979 replied: Vegan diets can be perfectly healthy for you so long as you're supplementing properly for the lack of calcium, B12 and vitamin D. Lack of B12 can cause anemia and screw up your nervous system and I have read that lack of vitamin D may increase heart disease. So there are risks there too.
With that being said, I'm a proud meat eater and for the past 30 years I've been perfectly healthy and I feel great too!

moped replied: I cannot say I have ever personally met the steak before I ate it........

PrairieMom replied:
I have. Its amazing how different it tastes. WAY better.

mckayleesmom replied:
Me either, but he tasted great...



I don't think I could eat it if I met it....Wait..I take that back. Once on vacation at my stepdads grandpas farm. Me and my brother went walking and ran into them slaughtering a cow. I'm pretty sure we probably ate him at some point on that vacation.

cameragirl21 replied: I'm not here to convert anyone, nor do I intend to be sucked into any kind of "altercation" here, if you want to eat meat, eat your heart out, literally.
I've done loads of research, not to mention my own experience--my allergies are nearly non existent now, and I was constantly sick with allergies and asthma before, not to mention that my cholesterol is so ridiculously low--127, all due to shunning dead animals.
I do eat fish, so it's not truly vegetarian, it's more pescetarian, although I don't eat fish everyday, or even every week.
A personal trainer is not a nutritionist, lean proteins like chicken and turkey are good for weight loss but not necessarily good for you.
One thing I can say for sure--vegetarians age better than their meat eating counterparts...why, you ask? Because meat takes days to digest which takes its toll on your body all the way down to the cellular level and that encourages aging.
At any rate, it's up to you, I said what I said to Tara after a choice she made for herself that I had nothing to do with. You don't have to agree with me and I don't have to argue with you or anyone else, if you choose to eat meat, that's up to you, but none for me, thanks, I'm a happy, healthy vegetarian!

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Same with Troy. If I told him I'd be making veggie only dishes I'm afraid I would have to find a new place to live.

Personally, this is JMO, but I think the important thing is balance and moderation. Big meat eaters and vegitarians/vegans who don't eat any meat can both be very unhealthy, and they both can also be very healthy. I think as long as you are getting the right amount of nutrition from which ever source you choose, then all is well.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I could not. I'm a sap. I can't "pick out" an animal to be slaughtered. Those big brown eyes starring at me would just break my heart.

Personally, I don't eat a whole lot of meat. Troy is the big meat eater...but if I had to go vegetarian, I could probably do it. I prefer the fruits and veggies over the meat....as long as I can have a southern fried chicken every once in awhile.

TheOaf66 replied:
you're like Jennie

I told my parents they should raise some cattle for meat (we have pasture land from the horses we used to have) but she said she could never eat it if she knew it when it was alive.

Me...I could walk out there, give Bossy her last treat with one hand and have the 44Mag in the other to turn the lights out...all while the grill was heating up.

I am so insensitive

My2Beauties replied:
I agree Jen...well said.

I'm pretty sure I could probably cut a LOT of meat out of my diet and I wouldn't miss it but it would be hard to cut it all out (I say this as I just scarfed down a 1/2 lb cheeseburger ) on a serious note though I would become a vegetarian for the sake of the animals...I'm an animal lover and the thought of what those animals go through...it tears me apart.

PrairieMom replied:
I don't get that. The meat you are eating still had those big brown eyes.

People go veggi for lots of reasons. My x-best friend did because of the brown eye factor. She was eating a juicy burger one day and realized what exactly those juices were, and was a complete veggi from that moment on. She would literally retch from the thought of eating meat. It went from "meat" to " muscle tissue and bodily fluids" for her in her mind.


I am making the switch for health and environmental reasons.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Because I don't think of the animal while I am eating it if I never saw it. I never saw the animal so I don't know what "Mr. Chubby Cow" looked like before. If I saw it, I would have that furry face engrained in my brain while I ate the meat. It's an out of sight, out of mind kind of thing.

mckayleesmom replied: I would never pick out my meat....or else I would have a cow living in my backyard. I guess for me if I just don't think about it, I'm fine.

PrairieMom replied:
I get that. We all know my mind works way to hard, and it is rarely something that simplifies my life.

luvmykids replied: I agree with you, Jen, meat in a balanced diet is not in and of itself unhealthy...as long as it has it's proper place along with other good nutrition, I don't think being a meat eater automatically makes you UNhealthy.

As far as meeting the steak before you eat it, I am a softie there....when I'm eating a steak there is no denying it came from an animal who was once alive, but if it was one I'd raised I couldn't do it for whatever reason

Although now that we live on a cattle ranch, DH keeps reminding me that any one of them I like to take pictures of could end up on our table The good side to that is I've had an up close and personal view of what nasty animals they are so it makes them a lot less cute

moped replied:
And I thought we were getting along so much better these days........

I totally understand your point Jennifer, and obviously you are a healthy vegetarian!!!!!!!

I know a trainer isn't a nutritionist (typed wrong word), however I also have nutritionist freinds in my life that would agrue this point......but if protein is replaced then all is well!

And I wasn't trying to "suck you in", just asking how you thought it was the healthiest choice to make! For you it is a healthy choice, fo rme it might not be - I don't know!

moped replied:
So true....and the reason cows are on this planet is for milk and beef......right? Maybe I am wrong!

cameragirl21 replied: Jen (Moped), it's not that we're not getting along, it's just that, I don't think you and other really understand--this is a VERY personal issue for me as I consider meat to be murder and like I said, I take these sorts of things very personally.
I did NOT say that eating meat is unhealthy, per se, what I did say is that giving up meat is one of the best things you can do for your health, and it is, I've spoken to quite a few cardiologists about it and they have gone vegetarian...their reason--they don't want to die of a heart attack. To me, that is evidence enough, especially considering all the ones I've spoken to were meat eaters prior to becoming cardiologists. Btw, this is NOT to say that every cardiologist on the planet is a vegetarian, I've just spoken to quite a handful here who are.
I don't mind answering questions but I did feel like I was being sucked into a debate that I don't really like to get into because for me, shunning meat is a highly moral decision whereas to others here, eating meat is part of their daily lives and I know it's a topic that has the potential to be highly explosive here. I apologize if I sounded mean or accusing, I realize that you didn't mean any harm, it's just that like I said, believe it or not, this topic for someone like me is like abortion for those who consider it to be murder, it's very personal and emotions run deep.
For the record, I don't think that eating meat automatically makes a person unhealthy but I have yet to see any evidence that eating meat is healthy or even that eating meat is NOT unhealthy, depends on how much you eat. Remember also that all the nutrients in meat are killed when you cook it so the only way to truly get any benefits out of it is to eat it raw, like the French do--steak tartare.
There is definite evidence that vegetarians are healthier in principle but to be fair, there is definite evidence that those who don't eat any processed sugar are healthier and I just ate a little square of fudge as I can't quite kick the sugar habit, although I'm doing much better with that and fighting my demons there also.
I will say that if someone told me that cutting out the sugar would be the single most healthiest decision I could make right now, I'd not disagree, that is entirely correct because I live a very healthy lifestyle otherwise. BUT, I still have desserts, pretty much daily and while I've cut down tremendously on portion sizes, I don't see myself giving up sugar anytime soon even though I know it would be the healthy thing to do.
We all have our vices, and if you can't give up meat, that is fine, like I said, I am not here to convert anyone but I do think it's fair to say that giving up meat is a healthy choice, just as giving up sugar would be for me.

jcc64 replied: It is entirely possible to eliminate meat from your diet and be completely, if not more healthy. Japan, with its diet rich in fish and tofu and largely devoid of the animal fats so prevalent in western diets, tops the lifespan statistics, wayyyyy above the US (don't know about Canada, though I suspect it's closer to the US). If that isn't evidence, I don't know what is. The typical American diet has long been considered unhealthy specifically because of its overabundance of meat and animal fats. Eating meat will not make you healthier, and NOT eating meat will not lead to bad health, providing a conscious effort is made to obtain protein elsewhere, which can be easily done by eating nuts, beans, soy, etc...Furthermore, these proteins are not likely to be filled with the chemicals, pesticides, hormones, drugs, etc...that are routinely present in non-organic animal products.
If you love eating meat, have at it, but don't delude yourself into thinking it's healthy.

moped replied: I did not realize your emotions towards this topic...I do apologize for that. BUT keep this in mind when you bring up other "sensitive issues" that you do including religion etc etc.

I do apologize!

PrairieMom replied:
Jeanne... I love you man.

PrairieMom replied: So, for the record...
no, talk on
abortion
cloth diapering
breastfeeding
immunizations
religion
and...
vegetarianism.


But, look , 2 pages and no one is crying... MAN! i love a good adult conversation.

Any thing around here is more like " eat your veggies because I SAID SO!"

cameragirl21 replied:
ditto, she said that SO much better than I did. I need to steal a page from your playbook, Jeanne.

moped replied:
Gotcha!

cameragirl21 replied: ok, Jen, I apologize because Tara's post made me realize that my getting all bent out of shape about this is hypocritical because God knows I've brought up controversial topics myself and I'm sure I will in the future and I hate hypocrisy, I think it's one of the worst things in the world so I refuse to be guilty of so I am sorry.
I just misunderstood your tone and thought you were trying to pull me into an argument on purpose and that got me upset.
I realize now that you didn't and I apologize if my response made you feel bad and if my stating that eating meat is unheatlhy, along with smoking and tanning also made you feel bad if you engage in those activities.
Like I said, it is a very emotional topic for me but if you have questions or if anyone else does, feel free to ask them, I don't mind, I just don't want to feel like I'm being goaded, which is how I felt but I realize now that this is now how you meant it.
I do stand by what I said about smoking, tanning, and eating meat being unhealthy, though.

coasterqueen replied: Tara - you say you want to go veggie for environmental reasons, that you don't want to eat meat because of the kinds you eat have all that unhealthy crap in it (i.e. pesticides, etc). My question is everything you are going to eat as a vegetarian is environmentally friendly? Isn't processed? Doesn't have pesticides, etc, man-made chemicals, etc? If not then I do not understand your reasoning for going vegetarian. I understand the reasoning of vegetarians that they go that direction because of the killing of animals - I see that reason perfectly well. I don't see the reason for environmental reasons unless you completely eat pesticide, man-made chemical/processed, etc free vegetarian food.

Ok, not really trying to argue this...just wanted to know your POV.

moped replied:
No you didn't make me feel bad at all about the smoking and tanning.......not a bit! You can say anything you want about that.

This might come as a surprise to you but I don't like to hurt peoples feelings at all, so when you said how sensitive of a topic it was I felt bad.

DVFlyer replied: *pet peeve alert*

If you eat meat, do not call yourself a vegetarian. As Jennifer said, she's more of a pescaterian.

And on a more humorous note (to me anyway), one of the funniest lines I've heard on this subject was, "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals.... it's because I hate plants.".

cameragirl21 replied:
I'm not Tara but it takes an insane amount of water and resources for every cattle killed. So going vegetarian is easier on the planet because fewer resources are used.
Also, if she buys everything organic and grows a lot of her own stuff and cooks it herself then she is doing the whole man made, chemical free thing.
The best is to buy your veggies from local farmers at the farmers' market instead of at the grocery store. Of course even better is growing it yourself but if that is not an option then buy from your local farmers. I buy my veggies from markets quite a bit and it saves tons of money too.

coasterqueen replied:
I understand that, that one could buy all organic. I do that with ALL my foods as much as possible. There is a happy medium for me. I just can't see giving up meat for environmental reasons unless ALL other foods you are going to eat are "environmentally free". KWIM? Like I want to rid of a lot of crap in my foods so we buy as much organic as possible, but we still eat some processed foods and some with man-made chemicals. It's a "median" there for me. Also, when I go out I know I'm not getting organic foods. That's why I don't state I'm giving up some type of food group because I know I can't eat everything environmentally free, unless I eat all unprocessed, no man-made chemicals, and don't eat out at all, right?

Now as much water as it takes for a cow, you know just as much water can be used for growing veggies, too, right? A lot of organic meat farmers have other means (rain water) to feed their animals - which lets face it is FREE water - not causing any harm. Same can be said for organically grown veggies.

I guess that is why I wanted to know Tara's full POV on the "environment" reason she chose to go vegetarian. Although, I think at one time she stated she wasn't going fully veggie, not sure. Again, this is not to start an argument. Just trying to understand her logic. Like I mentioned before I COMPLETELY understand someone giving up meat because they feel for the animals, etc. I'm not sure I completely understand the environment one UNLESS someone goes completely FREE of all the other stuff, kwim?

PrairieMom replied: Karen, I'm going out to play, I'll be back when I have the time...

CantWait replied:
To be fair thought Jenn, it's not cutting a whole food group at all.....Canada's Food Guide calls it "meat, fish and alternatives"

Our Lil' Family replied: I thought this was quite funny. I sit down just now and turn on Oprah, 35 minutes into the show and as the picture is coming up this man is saying, 20% of our carbon footprint (I think globally) comes from the energy it takes to process and get meat to your table. He said that it doesn't mean you should become full on vegetarian but if everyone would take one day a week and make it a meatless day, they do Meatless Monday in his home, that would be like removing 20 million cars from the road that day! (I think it was 20 million....) I thought that was pretty interesting, and easy to do. So far today we're meatless in this house....not on purpose...just ended up that way.

edited for spelling

coasterqueen replied:
That is interesting. We have at least one meatless day every week, always have. I wonder what the statistics is for the energy used to process all the items one would make to make a meatless meal compared to if you ate a meat meal, though? KWIM? They give one side of the statistics, but not the other. Or I'm not understanding their sayings, which is entirely possible.

PrairieMom replied: Ok, let me just day, because I know I have to, just in case that I don't feel attacked, I am not attacking. You asked, I am telling, in a nice way. When I say "you" I don't mean , YOU I mean people in general.
Also, let me just say that just us physically being here on the planet is hurtful to the environment. Even exhaling contributes to green house gases, so really, There is no best answer, each person can only do the best they can to do what they feel is best for themselves, and their families, and their priorities.
OK?

So, I have been hashing out my decision to transition to vegetarianism for a while now, its something that i knew I would should be doing last summer, but have been putting off until now.
here is my exact plan for my family:

I will not serve meat dishes in my home. I will personally order vegetarian dishes when I am out with my family. I will encourage my children to eat vegetarian dishes, ( mac and cheese instead of chicken nuggets) DH I have no control over, he does what he wants.
If we are in someone else's home and are served meat, we will eat it. I am not out to inconvenience anyone else, push my practices on them, or make them feel uncomfortable. I am not eliminating dairy, or eggs.
OK.

here are my reasons. and i know you can find literature out there to support either side, I found some to support this one, y-all can do your own digging to contradict mine if you want. LOL
health :

http://www.goveg.com/healthConcerns.asp
The American Dietetic Association states that vegetarians have “lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease; … lower blood cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer” and that vegetarians are less likely than meat-eaters to be obese.1

Scientists have also found that vegetarians have stronger immune systems than their meat-eating friends; this means that they are less susceptible to everyday illnesses like the flu.7 Vegetarians and vegans live, on average, six to 10 years longer than meat-eaters.8

Studies have shown that vegetarian kids grow taller and have higher IQs than their classmates

environment:
National Audubon Society and the Sierra Club, are now establishing the link between eating meat and eco-disasters like climate change. According to Environmental Defense, if every American skipped one meal of chicken per week and substituted vegetarian foods instead, the carbon dioxide savings would be the same as taking more than a half-million cars off U.S. roads.


Raising animals for food is grossly inefficient, because while animals eat large quantities of grain, they only produce small amounts of meat, dairy products, or eggs in return. This is why more than 70 percent of the grain and cereals that we grow in this country are fed to farmed animals. It takes up to 16 pounds of grain to produce just one pound of meat,

The world's cattle alone consume a quantity of food equal to the caloric needs of 8.7 billion people—more than the entire human population on Earth.19 About 20 percent of the world's population, or 1.4 billion people, could be fed with the grain and soybeans fed to U.S. cattle alone

more than one-third of all fossil fuels produced in the United States are used to raise animals for food.2

Nearly half of all the water used in the United States goes to raising animals for food.22


It takes 5,000 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of meat, while growing 1 pound of wheat only requires 25 gallons.23 A totally vegetarian diet requires only 300 gallons of water per day, while a meat-eating diet requires more than 4,000 gallons of water per day.24,25 You save more water by not eating a pound of beef than you do by not showering for an entire year.26

the run-off from factory farms pollutes our waterways more than all other industrial sources combined

data indicates that the pollution strength of raw manure is 160 times greater than raw municipal sewage."31 In other words, farmed animal waste is much more dangerous than human waste. There are no federal guidelines that regulate how factory farms treat, store, and dispose of the trillions of pounds of concentrated, untreated animal excrement that they produce each year. This waste may be left to rot in huge lagoons or sprayed over crop fields; both of these disposal methods result in run-off that contaminates the soil and water and kills fish and other wildlife.

he EPA reports that chicken, hog, and cattle excrement have polluted 35,000 miles of rivers in 22 states and contaminated groundwater in 17 states

A 2006 United Nations report found that the meat industry produces more greenhouse gases than all the SUVs, cars, trucks, planes, and ships in the world combined


Ok. So, really, is my not eating meat going to make a HUGE difference? no. BUT, its not adding to the problem either. I find it poor logic to think, "well, me making a change won't make much of a difference, they won't even notice" BUT if everyone thought like that nothing would ever change. I am taking a small step , someone else will take a small step and eventually our little steps will make a difference big enough to notice.

jcc64 replied:

I love you too Tara!

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Ya'll know I lost around 70 pounds a little while ago. I cut my meat intake wayyyyy down.. I wasn't eating much of it to begin with... maybe 3 or 4 times a week... but I replaced even what little meat I was eating with more beans/tofu/fish. I was having half a regular sized chicken breast and half a small steak a week, that's it.

basically...You don't digest protein. Meat is mostly protein. It runs right through you, if you don't use the energy you can get from the protein. It's a waste of food.

You shouldn't ever eat more than 7 ounces of protein in a day. FYI, a typical chicken breast is about 6.5 to 7 ounces. That's the skinless boneless ones with the fat trimmed.

Then there's eggs, cheese... beans.. tofu.. nuts... those are all protein as well. So if you have an egg for breakfast, a slice of cheese in a sandwich with say, turkey.. and a chicken breast for dinner, you've already eaten more than the healthy recommended intake of protein. You'll feel more sluggish than had you eaten more fruits and veggies.. because your body uses more ressources to process the protein and get it through you.. but you didn't eat much of the foods that actually benefit your body.. vitamins and nutrients..

Speaking on a personal level, when I saw medical professionals and nutritional specialists on the diet I was following, they explained a lot about how your body processes all kinds of foods, and what types of enzymes combine with other types (for instance why you shouldn't eat carbs and meat together..) and the different effects of starches and sugars in the foods you eat..

I cut out EVERYTHING pre-processed... or nearly. I still had mayo, some salad dressing, some soy sauce.. and like I said, I had two 3.5 ounce servings of meat in a week... and I've never felt healthier, haven't been sick, had more energy..better concentration..

i think that as society Americans are used to eating crap on a regular basis, and that's no doubt why the US is branded as one of the world's "fattest country".. eating just one less portion of meat in a week would no doubt benefit not only the environment, but their health.

but...whatever floats your boat.

CantWait replied:
To heck with that, when I'm eating my steak, I'm having my potato

PrairieMom replied:
you CAN"T have steak without potato. Its physically impossible.
Last night we had Mushroom "steak" which is basically sauted mushrooms with garlic, and I served it with potatoes.

MommyToAshley replied: Interesting debate.

I was watching the news and they had a small story about a greek island (I forget the name of it). The average life span of the people on the island was 92 vs 72 in the US. The researcher went on to say that they lived a quality life and were still in good health at this age. He contributed it to the fact that they ate a lot of plant life and nuts. I won't argue that this probably contributed to their healthy lifestyle, but I have to disagree with drawing the conclusion that is THE REASON they lived so long. I think they have to take into consideration the environment in which these people lived. I am sure the air they are breathing is much healthier than the polluted air from the cities in which we live. So, I caution about drawing conclusions based on a person you know that is a vegetarian or a person you know that eats meat -- there are many more factors that come into play than what someone eats. Anyways, at the end of the news story, the researcher went on to say they found another "hot" spot that seems to have a similar average life span -- and, it was another costal area.

With all that said, I am not a vegetarian but we do eat well-balanced meals. We always have plenty of fruit around the house and vegetables with every meal. I have been more and more aware of the foods I buy now. If I buy beef, I only buy Laura's Beef that is certified that the cattle is raised hormone and antibiotic free. I also only buy poultry that is hormone and antibiotic free. Even the milk I buy is hormone free -- this is the a big concern as they are saying that girls are going into puberty earlier now and research says it may have to do with the hormones fed to cattle that is passed through in the milk we drink. How scary! I don't buy all organics as I think some organics have other health risks. But, certain fruits that are known to be grown using pesticides heavily, I will buy organic. Ashley loves fish, but I am scared to give her seafood too often due to the scares with mercury in fish and drugs in the fish that are considered carcinogenic. I just wish we could be sure the food we buy and eat was safe.

I think these kinds of debates (if kept on topic) are great because it really gets us thinking about the food we eat and the environment in which we live.

My2Beauties replied: Wow Tara that is very inspiring I love the information you posted. I'm so happy now because we go meatless at least 2-3 times per week in my home. I'm real big on soups in my house. That makes me feel good that I'm helping out in some way even though I had no clue I was. Yay me I don't like a lot of meat but man sometimes I LOVE me a juicy steak...I think I could go "most of the time" without it though. I think you've challenged me now. I'm not saying I'm going veggie because at this point I just now I will fail, why set yourself up for failure, but I am going to try to cut back and hopefully my husband won't notice We'll see how that goes.

Boo&BugsMom replied: I have a question! Don't poultry products HAVE to be antibiotic and hormone free? I read something not long ago saying...and maybe it's just Wisconsin...that poultry products can not be sold unless they are hormone and antibiotic free. Actually, even if you go to our local grocery store (not health food store, just a regular store), all the poultry says antibiotic and hormone free on it.

MommyToAshley replied:
Not sure... but not all poultry is labeled as such. I've seen poultry in the store not labeled this way. I do know that beef is not required to be, therefore I pay more for beef that is hormone and antibiotic free.

PrairieMom replied:

The hard part for us is going to be the convenience food factor, which we shouldn't be eating anyway, and I am doing WAY better about it, but DH doesn't put thought into things like I do, and he is real bad about getting the kids fast food for lunch 2 days in a row over the weekend if I am working. He will feed the kids meat just out of habit.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Hum...maybe it's just our state, or county...I don't know. All the ground chicken, chicken breasts, etc. all have a label on them somewhere or another from the company it came from.

I just got this from the Perdue website...

We do not use antibiotics for growth promotion in chickens, nor do we use antibiotics continuously for any reason. We've never used hormones or steroids. In fact, the use of hormones and steroids in poultry has been banned since the 1950s.

coasterqueen replied: Very interesting, Tara, and thank you for giving me your POV without feeling like I offended you with my questions. Or at least I hope that was the case. I, by no means, am perfect in any way and we aren't healthy eaters 100% of the time. I just never heard that thought process for going vegetarian and I found it very interesting.

I do wonder on some of those statistics if they are comparing being vegetarian to those who eat meats with all the crap in it - as far as the health statistics, but that's neither here nor there.

I think it's great you want to do this for your family. I know I could never give up meat entirely because my food phobias to fruits and veggies - but my girls certainly could. Ryan....well.....he likes meat, but he would have a much easier time at going vegetarian than I ever would.

You are very right that each little bit we do to help the environment is one step forward. The thought processes of well it won't help enough, etc will never help us get in the right direction.

Again, kudos and thank you for explaining your POV. It is the first time I've ever heard that logic for being vegetarian and I found it very insightful.

PrairieMom replied:
good morning!
I typed out that whole thing and thought, "ugh. She probably went home already " I had to wait alllllllll night for your reply.

my sister doesn't get it either. I tried to explain to her about dirty confines, manure methane gas and all that, she rolls her eyes, ( I could hear it in her tone) She says " TARA! don't you think your vegetables will do the exact same thing??! " I was like... uh... poo? and pass gas? ( In more colorful terms) no, I don't think vegetables do that.

MommyToAshley replied:
Apparently you haven't been around Ashley after she's had broccoli.

coasterqueen replied:
I had to wait all night for your reply! I never get on at home. Everyone else needs my attention in the evening and I don't even get to go pee alone..so no computer time for me.

I get it, I get your reasoning. I just get it MORE if well..it's hard to explain. With those who become vegetarian because of animals it's plain and simple. That's the reason, hard to get around it. With the reasoning of environment, I would get it more if I just looked at it as if you do - helping to better the world/the environment one step at a time. I keep putting too much into my thought process of it and shouldn't. Because your thought process is the same as mine on many things and is the same w/you on being a vegetarian so not sure why I can't grasp it in my brain and go "ok". Don't get me wrong I think it's great you are doing this and why. I'm rambling.

PrairieMom replied:
Don't have to agree. Thats the cool part about it.

PrairieMom replied:

TheOaf66 replied:
So are we getting rid of husbands then too?

Well Tara since you are going meatless then I don't have to have meatless day, you will more than make up for me.

And FYI, that "thing" you made...please don't call it steak...call it what it is "mushroom devised to trick you into thinking about steak"

that is all for now


"Meat Machine" "Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine""Meat Machine"

(sorry that was for you greenies out there)

PrairieMom replied:
My DH picked out that recipe and went back for seconds.

redchief replied: So it's the meat that's making me old! I should have known that all along. It couldn't be the beer (very vegetarian by the way), too much sun, working on my knees and lifting with my back for my entire life, or the fact that I'm getting older. It's the meat. I'll have to ask Lisa to cut meat out of my diet.
































IN A PIG'S EYE!

TheOaf66 replied:
yes Ed, if you eat plants and roots you will live forever...didn't you get that memo?