Just some thoughts... - wanted to get this out.

Kentuckychick wrote: Well, we've all talked a lot of our beliefs regarding quite a few issues in the past week and I'm impressed by the openess of the individuals on this site. Even when we don't all agree, we are able to be civil to one another. This is something I've wanted to get off my chest for a while and it's a little bit long and you can read or not read if you choose of course... but I just needed to get it out there.

This leads me to my post today. I have continued to see the news and to hear the stories surrounding the horrible tragedy at VT and I just can't get past everything that happened (or didn't happen) in the case of this young man. I won't go as far as saying that I feel "bad" for him... because it's hard to feel bad for someone like that... but I'll be honest, I do "feel for him." In some way, deep down inside I feel like he was failed by so many individuals in his life. Is it the fault of those individuals? Well no. You can't blame them either really.
This is why mental illness is so frustrating... it leaves us all wanting to blame something... to blame someone and in the end, we can't. We can blame a combination of things together, but in the end placing blame just simply leaves a world of hurt worse than the one we're already in.

I guess I have a perspective to see this from and though it's not at all identical to what this boy clearly was thinking or went through at all... I think anyone who's been there will relate to what I'm talking about.
I have suffered from depression before. Once in my life. A very serious depression that I now, gratefully know was brought on by the "anti-depression" medication I had been prescribed for my migraines. Depression is a form of mental illness... not so bad as some... maybe worse than others. It's still there, and it's still real.

I didn't know it at the time it began and didn't realize it really until it got so bad I could not hardly function. My family members, with whom I lived at the time did not notice. I cried myself to sleep every night, I was withdrawn, I didn't eat well, I couldn't sleep well... it was horrible. I still to this day credit one of my best friends (a co-worker at the time) for saving my life. He had suffered from depression himself once and somehow he recognized the signs in me. Even when I didn't know it myself he would ask me each day if I was okay... I would say yes and he would say "Okay, I'm always here if you need to talk." I found it strange until the night, a few days after I finally figured everything out... I talked to him for an hour online and he told me he just knew... that he could sense it in my body language... see it in my eyes. I have never been more grateful for a friend, ever.
He was always there for me to talk to, even if I didn't often talk about my depression. When things got the very worst and I seriously didn't want to live anymore I was getting ready to leave work. He gave me a hug goodbye as I was going to be gone for 2 weeks. As I was walking away he yelled to me... and I'll never forget to this day... the way he said this, the way he looked at me... everything about it. I turned around and said "Yeah?" He just looked at me, right in the eye and said "Rache... I love you. I just wanted you to know that." I said "I love you too." And turned around and walked out the door... I sobbed the whole way home, the rest of the day and all night. I woke up the next morning and it was like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. This same person let me know that the medicine might be what was making me sick, and it was. I swear he's my angel.

To tell you the truth, now I cannot remember "exactly" how I felt during the worst of it and probably for a good reason. I just know how bad it got. I look at myself today and my life and I cannot imagine myself EVER wanting to give up or to hurt myself in anyway and yet I know that there was once a point when I did. That's how I know that the person I was then... that person who was depressed and hurt and sad... that person wasn't me. Not at all.

It was always so easy for me to disregard depression and mental illness before all of that occurred... I think a lot of individuals who've never been there do. Who can blame them. I couldn't understand why people couldn't just move on. I knew individuals with seemingly good lives (nice homes, friends and family who loved them, often times money, and decent jobs) I just didn't understand what their problems were. Now I know. I know that there's nothing that you can do in that situation. You can have the "perfect" life and if you're depressed you will never be happy with it. Nothing will ever make sense and life will never seem fair. And it's not your fault.

I think we have a long way to go in this world and this country in getting help for people who need it. I think the VT student is the prime example. There were so many warning signs there from the very beginning. His family noticed, his friends noticed, his roomates noticed, the school, security guards and even the united states court system noticed. And yet even with all of them taking notice something of this nature wasn't prevented. Everyone says they "never thought he was capable of doing something like that"... but that person wasn't him. A person with a mental illness is capable of anything. We should know that by now. That was someone with a serious mental illness who needed serious help. And now, instead of help, he's dead... and so are 32 other people. Innocent people who had nothing to do with it. And those who noticed are left behind to wonder if there wasn't something more they could do.

So honestly... I'm done blaming anyone anymore. It wasn't gun control. It wasn't those who ignored the signs, or those didn't do enough. It wasn't the guns or the parents... it wasn't his upbringing. It wasn't even "him"...

Mental Illness is serious business.

Jamison'smama replied: Good insight, it is nice to hear compassion when most are just so quick to assign blame.

StephanieM replied: You are very right. I've dealt with depression, I've had family members who are severly depressed. My husband is Bipolar. Mental illness can really mess up someone's life, especially if undiagnosed. I feel for you, I cried when I read your post, because I've been there. I'm sure there are a lot of people that have been there. I agree that a lot of people are quick to blame parents or guns. Thank goodness for your friend...we should all be so lucky to have a friend like that. And you should give yourself more credit.

luvmykids replied: I agree completely, I can't imagine what torture and torment within a person leads to such a tragedy but I do know it's not by choice....although some may see it that way, someone who did choose to take such action still isn't equipped to make the right choices.

holley79 replied:

Kentuckychick replied:
Thank you so much for your kind thoughts... I do feel so blessed to have had my friend in my life. He's still my friend to this day (3 years later) and though I've yet to tell him just how much he's done for me... I make sure to tell him how much I love him as often as I can.

I'm sorry you've had to deal with depression. I know that it can't be easy, but you sound like a very strong person and your girls are just beautiful of course!

I do realize that I am one of the "lucky" ones. My depression was caused by something that could be taken away... it was able to be made better. I know that for many this is not the case at all. I still suffer and have suffered some minor seasonal blahs due to my migraines and I think that's why I had such a hard time noticing the "really bad" depression when it first began. I brushed it off as just another small glitch in life and it wasn't at all.

As horrible and scary as the whole experience was (which lasted about a year)... I think the knowledge that I've taken from it has helped me grow in ways I never could have otherwise and I know that I am stronger for that.

Thank you again... and thank you everyone else for your kind responses and thoughts. You are all wonderful!

amynicole21 replied: Thanks for posting that.

MommyToAshley replied: Thank you for sharng your personal experience, which I am sure took some courage to post. I can't imagine what you went through. However, your post was very insightful, and opened my eyes... so thank you for posting this.

Crystalina replied: I also want to send a big hug and tell you that I appreciate you posting that. I know it's already been said before but that does take alot of courage for you to post something like that. I don't think I've ever dealt with depression so I really can't see that side of it. I do have a sister who is depressed and is being self destructive after the death of her little girl so I understand where you're coming from but I have never personally had depression myself.


I'm going to be blunt though. Keep in mind that I do understand this boy/man was depressed and I stated in the other thread that people around him should have taken action and prevented this because I've seen the stories of people talking about how odd and "off" he was. To be blunt...if you are that depressed and want to kill yourself do it, but don't take 32 innocent people with you. I would hate to raise my children, give them the best that I can give them, send them off to college with their future ahead of them and then get a phone call saying that some depressed/homicidal/suicidal man took their life. Why did my kids have to go with him? You can't blame this person for having a mental disorder but I really think he knew enough to know what he was doing. He was vengeful and full of hate. I'm sure this is what the parents of those 32 people are thinking.

I want to end this post by saying that I'm not making light of your post or what you suffered. I just think this particular boy had alot of hate mixed in with his depression.

msoulz replied: You are so wonderful for sharing such a personal experience. Thank you.

Mental illness seems to run in my dad's family (yeah, that explains a bit about me maybe) and it is a very sad thing. One of my uncles committed suicide by shooting himself with a 22 in the chest. It is really sad that the other 6 siblings couldn't help him, or refused to, or he wouldn't accept help, whatever. So I understand what you say when you feel for the man. I wish our society could be better at recognizing and doing something about mental illness before these types of things happen. Although I understand it was recognized at the university that something was wrong but he refused help, so what to do then? I really wish I had the answer - I truly do.

Thank you again for sharing. This is one of the best things about this site.

Kentuckychick replied:
I whole heartedly agree.
Of all the things in this world that I will NEVER understand it's how anyone could get that bad. In the entire time that I was going through what I was, anytime that I ever felt that I just couldn't go on with my life I never actually contemplated killing myself (Oh, there were times I didn't want to live... but either I or something else always thankfully brought me back before things went to far). I can totally understand a human being giving up. I can't understand taking the lives of others with you. It's not okay and it will never be acceptable. I will always be angry about what he did... I'll always feel horrible for those families. I don't know what was in his head... I've seen the videos and you are right, this was an individual full of rage and hatred and I think this is who he'd been for a long time even if it was caused by the mental illness. I still blame to an extent... I just blame a combination of things. I think that so many people (including him) knew he had a serious mental disorder and this could have been prevented.

This is something that a lot of innocent people are going to have to live with and it's not fair at all.

jcc64 replied: I think we've all had those same thoughts, Crystal, regarding the outward expression of violence by a depressed person. I can't understand it, you can't, but that's exactly the point. It doesn't make sense because it's irrational behavior commited by a person incapable of critical reasoning at that particular point in time. I'm not excusing it, but rather trying to point out that you cannot expect to understand mental illness when you are filtering it through the lense of a well person, kwim?
Human beings, especially men for some reason, naturally have alot of violent tendencies. When we are properly socialized, we understand when and where, if ever, it's appropriate to express them. But when someone's mind goes awry, well, the sky's the limit as to what types of atrocities he is capable of commiting.

And thank you for your thoughtful, insightful post, Kentuckychick. I've also dealt with some mental health issues, and I appreciate your candor and your willingness to share your own experiences in the hopes that it will elicit a more compassionate understanding of an often misunderstood and stigmatized affliction.

luvmykids replied:
I just found out today that in NM, where I live, you can't legally force someone to get help. The only measures in place are for potential suicides at even that is temporary. We had a man last year who killed five and then himself and everyone including his family knew he was ill but state law says he himself has to submit to treatment. Unfortunately, here, someone has to commit a terrible act to be sentenced to getting help.

Another thought I had is that for many people sufferring with mental illness, seeking treatment is a tough hurdle to jump. I've only faced mild depression but getting help is always very, very difficult for me. Thanks to the stereotypes that still exist some people, myself included, have a hard time putting myself in the same category as "those people", or I think I can straighten myself out without help.

I'm not saying nobody could have/should have helped him, just that unfortunately sometimes it's easier said than done. And I think Jeanne said it well, it's futile for those of us with a clear head to try to comprehend let alone explain the mind of somebody who does something like that.

Kentuckychick replied:
You're right. I've always heard that in order for anyone to every really get help, it has to be that person who really wants the help. That forcing help on someone really isn't the way to go. I think the only difference with this case was that a court system saw him as a danger to himself and others... and yet they couldn't take any steps (other than outpatient care) to prevent anything like this from happening. I mean honestly because I've never experienced that sort of mental illness, I couldn't even say that he could be helped. And I feel I need to correct myself when I said that "he" knew he was ill. I should correct that because really who knows. I may have known that I was depressed at the time, but because I wasn't myself at all it didn't really seem to matter how much I knew it (if that makes sense).

I definitely agree that it's tough to seek help. There's such a negative stereotype in our society with depression and when I look back, that stereotype is a huge part of what kept me from believing that anything was really wrong. It took someone else to say "No, you're not okay... and you know what, that's okay." for me to accept it. I found it odd that when I went to the doctor a few months back and he suggested putting me back on the same medicine and I told him no, that I had never felt worse or more drained in my life, he looked at me and said, "Really, because according to my charts you scored high on emotions and blah blah." So seriously... I had even lied to my doctor. A person I am supposed to trust with this type of thing. I didn't remember lying to him until he said that... then it hit me. Sitting in his office saying that I was okay, that I felt good, that I was happy when I wasn't. I just shook my head and said "... yeah... well... that was a rough time."

And you and Jeanne are both right, we will never understand what was going on in his mind.

luvmykids replied:
Not only that, but that the system has to work towards care for those who ARE a threat to others without their consent. Again, here in NM, outpatient isn't even forcible. So you can have someone who is totally deranged and violent with tendencies towards acting on that but unless that same person has already committed a crime linked to that, treatment is still voluntary. Why do we have to wait until it's too late?

It's terribly sad that in this case all the signs were there....in NM, unfortunately, that isn't enough. I don't know about the laws in VA but the more I'm finding out about the laws here the more sickening it is that things have to go so far. The man I mentioned who killed five people here had miles of paperwork documenting his illnesses. But because he wouldn't consent to treatment, he didn't get any.

It's not only a tragedy for those innocent people harmed but for the individuals themselves. It's horribly sad to think of all the people with severe mental illness who may find some relief from it and don't, for whatever reason.