OMG, this gets more and more interesting

cameragirl21 wrote: Kate will do anything to keep the show, even allow Jon to date other women, supposedly.
And tbh, I don't think it's for the $$$ as she claims, I mean, it is for the $$$ but not the $$$ she needs for the kids, I seriously think she is just an attention hog.
I don't like her but some part of me feels sorry for her and the other part of me doesn't because if she'd rather keep the show and let her husband get his jollies somewhere else than fade gracefully into oblivion to either work on their marriage OR split up but not have their family's troubles be a circus for the whole world to watch then it's hard for me to feel sorry for her. JMO.
And ok, I don't pretend to understand Christianity but they are supposed to be devout Christians...isn't it unChristian to allow your husband to cheat on you for the whole world to watch just so you can still be rich and famous? I really don't like hypocrisy, it's a major pet peeve of mine.
It is a bit troubling to see them on the couch separately, though, isn't it? Bad as they were together, just seeing it like that really hits home.
Oh, here's the video I was referring to....http://gmy.news.yahoo.com/v/13601866

coasterqueen replied: Yeah, I read that. I've also read (today) that he wanted to do marriage counseling and she said no, until TLC said they would tape it and she'd get extra money from it. So now she's agreed to doing the counseling and them taping it.

Not sure what is true.

luvmykids replied:
I didn't watch the video but for some reason have a hard time believing she'd put up with or allow that. I don't have a strong opinion of her one way or the other, at the end of the day she's still a wife and mom who puts her pants on one leg at a time....has marriage problems, maybe some priorities out of whack, kids, etc....basically she's still just about like the rest of us

On the Christianity thing, I don't really see that as hypocrisy. To me, hypocrisy is when you judge someone for doing something yet do the same thing and really nothing to do with a persons religion....hypocristy and Christianity are not mutually exclusive. If it's true she's made that decision, to remain married and let him have his fun under her nose, I'd be less inclined to see that as hypocrisy and more as a woman acting out of some kind of unhealthy emotions.

I think she's like most women with marriage problems; unsure what to do next, trying to reconcile a lot of conflicting emotions, maintain some composure, etc....I think it's a lot like many other things where you either don't think it will happen to you, or you're sure of how you'd handle it, until it DOES happen to you.

No matter what, it's sad, they're still real people with real emotions

cameragirl21 replied:
OMG, are you serious?! That goes totally against confidentiality laws!
And do they really want the whole world in on it, including the kids?
OMG, madness, seriously, I can't think of a better word, total madness!

cameragirl21 replied:
It does go against the 10 Commandments--thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife...so I guess it is against Judeo-Christianity, my bad.
Sorry if what I said offended anyone, that was not my intention at all, sorry.

luvmykids replied: I wasn't offended at all....Do I think they're maybe the poster couple for a solid Christian couple? No....I just don't see it as hypocrisy, more like some people who started out fairly normal, made some bad choices (starting with the show) and if I had to call one of them a hypocrite, it would be the cheater of the two (unless it turns out she has as well, and then, well, I guess they deserve each other )

Calimama replied: Well for one thing being Christian doesn't mean you're infallible, as you make it sound like it should be. Every one is prone to mistakes.. some bigger than other. It'd be nice if I, as a Christian, NEVER did anything wrong.. but I'm human, it happens. Hypocrisy to me is for me to tell person A they should never cheat because it goes against the Bible.. but then go do it myself.

I'm not really sure what religion has to do with this situation. I hardly see her sitting around telling people they are sinners for doing A,B, and C. But then.. I haven't watched the video.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Yes, it's unGodly very much so. These are what I call Sunday Christians...they go to church (IF they go) and call themselves Christians and act good on Sunday's, but they don't act like it at all any other day of the week and think they are untouchable Monday through Saturday. However, it really depends on where their heart is. I can't answer that, only God can. Also, people can say they are Christian as much as they want...it doesn't mean they truly have Christ in their lives. BUT, like mentioned, everyone is fallable, even someone who has the utmost faith. I know I have gone through phases in my life where I have totally screwed up and let myself be separated from God. Those were dark moments for me. Hopefully this is all it is and they will get back on track and make Christ the center of their lives once again.

cameragirl21 replied: it's hardly a mistake if you're making a calculated decision to allow your husband to cheat on you just so you can remain a well paid public figure.
And then quoting from the bible all through your book, sorry, but that is text book hypocrisy.

Calimama replied:
If that's true then it does seem a little hypocritical. But are you sure that's what's happening? Let me go watch the video..

Boo&BugsMom replied:
If you want to get into that though, there are way more than 10 actual commandments in the Bible. It's just the 10 big ones that people focus on. If we are going to focus on the commandments...even the 10 big ones...we all fall short.

luvmykids replied:
I absolutely understand how it comes off that way but it's like Jennie said, it depends where a persons heart is. There's a big difference between someone who truly is a Christian and having trouble living up to it, and someone who just gives it lip service. And, like Denise said, even the "best" Christians screw up.

Anyway, not wanting to get into a debate here, just trying to point out we all fall short, Christian or not, of how we may intend to live....I think most of us have aimed to be better than we are and sometimes hit a bump on the road to getting there.

eta: I watched part of the video, sounds to me more like they're separating and trying to still do the show or something, not an open marriage type arrangement. And when did GMA become a tabloid instead of a news show, anyway???

cameragirl21 replied:
I know, I'm just saying that maybe what I said was unfair...I mean it's certainly not a Jewish thing to do but they are not Jewish, they are Christians and I assumed it's also unChristian but as I said before, I don't entirely understand Christianity and maybe it was a rash judgment on my part so I wanted to stress where it IS against Christanity but also against Judaism.
I didn't mean to offend anyone by claiming this has anything to do with their being Christians but rather what I meant was, if they are such devout Christians as they claim to be then how the hell (pardon my pun) can she turn around and allow her husband to cheat which imo is against any Judeo-Christian based belief system and let the public be in on it and then still claim to be a devout Christian?
If you want to let your hubby cheat for money and fame, fine, but don't turn around and pretend to be Miss Suzy Church goer.
As I said before, I hate hypocrisy...if she just came out and said that while she is a Christian, she's breaking ranks because she really enjoys the money and perks of being on the show, I'd at least respect her for being honest even though I'd be repulsed by her sense of morals.

Calimama replied:
I'm not offended! We were talking about them last night and my husband brought up religion too last night said, "wow way to take those vows like champs!".

Jamison'smama replied: As far as it going against Christianity, it is not her act that is non-Christian, if he is unfaithful, it is his behavior that is most unaccepatable.

As you know, if you sign the right forms and wave confidentiality, you can share your therapy sessions with anyone you'd like.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Not offended at all. I agree...it's very unChristian and she certainly is not a poster-woman for 'Christian wife of the year'. God sees sin all the same though, which I think is important to understand. Their sin is no greater than my sins. However, we might think their sin is greater because of the way we look at it through our eyes. God has a lot more sympathy for us than we do ourselves.

ETA: there is also a lot of truth in the saying "money is the root of all evil", IMO. It's quite the temptress.

cameragirl21 replied: I know, Brenda, but would you do it?!
Do you think any reputable therapist would do it?!

boyohboyohboy replied: I think I can only say, I feel so sorry for this family..
maybe she conts to "need" the money for fear of what she thinks her life would be like with 8 kids and not have the show? I dont know much about her back ground, maybe she didnt have money or was from a poor family..?
I can only guess...I just really feel bad that her life has taken this turn..
and sorry the kids have to see their parents bad choices and mistakes played out on tv.

moped replied: Can I chime in here and say that all we know is from tabloid magazines. I mean we don't know anything really.....gossip is all it is!
I am all about the gossip, but what is printed isn't always true.

cameragirl21 replied:
Kate gave an interview to a magazine where she was actually quoted. So unless they misquoted her, which I suppose is possible but if it happened I imagine she'd have publicly said so by now, we DO know it from the horse's mouth.

Our Lil' Family replied: It only says, "there are even reports that Kate had Jon sign a contract stating that he would be allowed to date other people as long as he showed up for filming" I hardly qualify that statement as fact.
ITA with Jen, these are speculations....if it is true then shame on her for not putting her family before money but that is her decision....I will not be judged for it, she will have to answer for that one!

moped replied: That video gave me nothing more to go on, ntohing is true fact in that vid!

Yeah I mean there are so many rumors, who knows what is really true, so at this point I have nothing to say other than "Time will tell"

coasterqueen replied:
That is why I said I'm not sure what is true. I believe if it was me and I was doing an article w/People mag, though, to speak on the issue of my marriage and there were things that were NOT true.....I'd probably come out and say they aren't. All she's saying is that she has no clue if her husband actually cheated on her, that he said he didn't and that's all she knows. IMO that means he more than likely did. If she TRULY believed he didn't don't you think she would have said so and stood by him.? It all doesn't really matter to me what they do, though.

DVFlyer replied: This statement applies to anyone involved in that show or in the media...

Anything for ratings.

julesmom replied: I think it's horrible that they are having these problems and keep doing the show. Can you imagine what these kids will deal with at school, when their classmates know all their family problems since they saw it all on TLC?!

Jon says he wants privacy. Stop doing the show then.
I wonder if Kate would be ok with an open marriage if the tv wasn't involved. I wonder if she is just ok with it because of the money.

I think the money has changed her. It's so sad.

Calimama replied:
I agree with this.

Cece00 replied: I'm not religious, at all, so I dont care about the religious aspect of "is this OK, is that OK"

As far as if they do therapy...if they agree upon it- both the adults & therapist- its not against confidentiality laws.

And lastly- I think they've both changed bc of the exposure and money and I think they are acting ridiculously.

At this point, I think they need to stop doing the show and decide if they will remain married or not, get some counseling, WHATEVER.

But stop acting like idiots in the public eye for all the world to see and for your kids to be eventually exposed to.

If he is cheating, SHAME on him. Thats disgusting, immature behavior. I hate hearing ppl blame HER for him cheating, that is so obnoxious.

She obviously could be behaving wayyyyy better herself, and should get herself some help for that. Its NOT ok to treat people the way she does, and the same goes for him...

They both need to get some perspective here and do something about this mess.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Sometimes letting your spouse cheat is the best way to make them happy.

mummy2girls replied: I didnt read the link and i didnt read everyones responses but this is how i feel.How do we all really know this is true. From articles, to videos to smut magazines I dont think its really any of any ones business what they do. Just because they are "celebrities" doesn't mean everyone gets a piece of them. I think I would be hurt if somebody decided to spread rumors about my marriage and lifestyle. Just because its not for one doesn't mean its the same for all. Yes I personally is against cheating but until we all know the whole story i think the world should just lay off of them..

msoulz replied:
Instead of letting him cheat I will let him hire a divorce attorney. I think it is ridiculous to be in a marriage and have to go elsewhere to be "happy". JMHO.

cameragirl21 replied:
ITA, if he has to go eslewhere to be happy then something is wrong with the marriage. It's a sham imo to keep up appearances just to maintain a reality tv show. Kate is a nurse which is a very well paid and respected, not to mention, in demand profession, she could go her own way and work to support her family and Jon would have to work to keep up with all that child support.
Sure beats them both going to get their jollies elsewhere while keeping up a show that would be a farce anyway if they're no longer "Jon and Kate" anymore.
I definitely think reality tv has brought out the worst in her but then she has to set her priorities straight and it seems to me that they are not in order. Jmo of course.

mummy2girls replied:
Yes but being someone outside looking in we cant really pass judgement. Because unless we know the whole story in why he did this( if he did this) then we cant really say anything. Its easy to say this is what you would do but when put into the situation it may be diff.

Kentuckychick replied:
I think that statement could and should be made about both of them. Neither one is innocent when it comes to allowing their lives to be strung out in the open like dirty laundry. And neither of them is innocent of immature behavior.

The BOTH need to get their priorities in order.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
Thank you

Kentuckychick replied: Tonight's show honestly made me cry. For Kate more than for Jon. I really do think that despite the fact that she seems like she's the one "selling out" her family, that she's also the one who's being given the most amount of crap.

We were talking about it watching the show tonight... how honestly, now that they're in the position they're in... now that they've bought the bigger house and all that... there's no way she could just go back to living the life she lived before.

And when people say they get paid around $25,000 per episode... that's around $250,000 per year (approx. 10 episodes per season). Which is a decent living... but they are raising EIGHT children in a time of great economic uncertainty. Eight children who will all have to go to college -- at the same time. So I don't blame Kate at all for wanting to give her family financial stability that they did not have before the show/books. And of course she may one day have to do it all on her own.

She said it herself. Make sure your children are loved, happy and healthy... and they are. She really feels she's doing the best thing for their family.

And I find it humorous that Jon can complain about the show and about the "fame" and yet he doesn't mind at all driving around that spiffy new car.

I personally think that he's a hypocrite.

I don't think either of them is single handedly to blame for what's happened in their relationship. But watching the show tonight it was pretty clear who's been hurt worse... and who doesn't care all that much... or at least doesn't do a good job at showing it.

cameragirl21 replied: I did feel sorry for her tonight and noticed that she and Jon were barely able to tolerate each other for most of the eppy.
The thing is, she is always gone on speaking engagements and leaving Jon with the kids by himself but when he left for one weekend, she kept stressing that she's doing everything by herself and how tired she is, etc.
The paparazzi following them around nonstop was totally and I felt for them for that, that would drive me crazy.
Clearly they both love the kids but the show totally puts them on the spot and they choose to remain that way. They don't have to keep the show, she gets tons of speaking engagements and has written two book so she does have other options. She wants to stay in the spotlight, plain and simple.

Kentuckychick replied:
I got the feeling that she was more upset just by having to do the kids party alone (because it's something that judging on past seasons they'd always done together). She just seemed very tired and frustrated.

And I should have mentioned that I when I said they can't really just go back to living their life and she has to keep this "career"... I didn't necessarily mean the show. Honestly, I think the show is over. Or at least the seasons of the show. I got the feeling that tonight when what was supposed to have been the "season premiere" was suddenly replaced with a "Jon and Kate + Eight Special" that this is the end for the show. I hope so.

I do feel bad for both of them... especially if none of the allegations turn out to be true (though the only individuals who will ever really know are the individuals they allegations are being made against). What a sad and frustrating position to be going through in front of the media. Regardless of whether or not they brought it on themselves.

The end of the show really made me think that they're headed for divorce. When Kate said she once thought they'd beat the statistic, but now she's not so sure. And then when Jon said that they just want to make sure the kids know they love them even if they're not together.

Whatever may come of their relationship, I really do hope that they manage to remain friends for their children. No child deserves to go through any of that.

luvmykids replied: I only saw bits and pieces tonight, but what it had me thinking is that marriage is really hard, under the best of circumstances, and then 8 kids much less 8 kids so close together....and then the spotlight of the show....I'm sure when they started the show they had no idea the stress and effect of it on their lives. I think it would be hard for any marriage to withstand.

mummy2girls replied: She wants to stay in the spotlight, plain and simple. [/QUOTE]


That may be it but how do we know if this is what she really wants. I havent really read everything out there so i could of missed quite a bit but unless she herself says im in it for the spotlight, popularity and money then yes shame on her but to just assume thats what she wants maby not be a good thing to say. I just love how everyone says she wants the spotlight etc etc etc when jon hims elf is driving around in a spiffy car and so much as well.. I think they both like it. jon may be tired because he never looked at as just jon. But what i saw on tv tonight she doesnt like it either...

Calimama replied: I'm sad for them. Whatever the circumstances that led them to this point.. it's sad. They both seem so heartbroken.

stella6979 replied: It was interesting to watch that's for sure. They seemed like complete strangers, but I'm sorry, I still don't feel bad for Kate. I mean, if you're going to treat someone like crap, then you should expect to be treated like crap in return. And after all that's gone on she still couldn't stop nagging him. I can't stand her for that one hour every week, so I can only imagine having to listen to it all day every day. And I get that they have 8 kids, but seriously, it's not like this hasn't been done before. Look at the family from Table for 12, they seem to be doing just fine and he's a cop, not some brain surgeon or CEO making loads and loads of money. Look at the Dilleys. They've managed to do a very good job without splattering their kids faces all over t.v. It's all about choices and in my opinion Kate chose her career over her kids. I mean, it really is sad when your kids call you by the nanny's name. She could go back to nursing and make a decent living and still have that time to be with her kids, but she's too money hungry and aside from the papparazzi, she loves the fame. I'm thinking this marriage is over and the only ones I feel bad for are the kids. Speaking of kids, did anyone else notice how pleasant Maddy was in last nights episode? I was amazed at the difference.

coasterqueen replied:
This is how I feel, whether I should be passing judgment or not. And really, I shouldn't. I did find it interesting how all these years she's constantly said her kids are her "job" and now she is saying the show, the speaking engagements, etc is her job.

cameragirl21 replied: I'm curious about something, though--for those of you who watched last night's eppy--remember how Kate said that they have a babysitter and they're not revealing her identity and Kate said for her privacy among other reasons and kind of danced around the subject a bit and then said that that was the babysitter's preference...do you buy it? I was wondering if the real reason is that Kate doesn't want anyone seeing how she is with the kids and saying that she's better with the kids and/or I don't think Kate wants to share the spotlight with her because she's determined to come off as supermom and because she doesn't like sharing the spotlight, period.
Anyone else got that impression or do you think she was telling the truth--that the babysitter didn't want anyone to know who she is...?

stella6979 replied:
I think she's probably just worried about having to pay the babysitter more if she's on t.v. That was the rumor going around about her Brother and SIL. Apparently TLC offered to pay them since they were on the show so much watching their kids, but Kate threw a fit. Word on the street is that Kate said "nobody gets paid, but me".

jcc64 replied: I am not at all sure why everyone's gone after Kate with such a vengeance. I saw a magazine at the store last night with the headline: "Mom to Monster." What justifies that kind of damnation? Her husband steps out with some college girls and all of a sudden she's the devil? I don't get it.
I also found last night's episode very sad--all alone in her million dollar mansion, she's got all the toys she ever wanted, and is maybe realizing in front of the whole world that money can't buy happiness. She may have made strange choices with her life, but does that make her a monster??
The other thing I found puzzling is the assertion that there's no turning back to their old lives. Why isn't there? I know the show gives them opportunities they wouldn't have had otherwise, but it's not like there aren't other options. They're both educated, they are both able bodied, employable people who have the means to support their family. Maybe not in the style to which they've become accustomed, but I am fairly certain that large families can survive on the salaries of a nurse and a systems analyst. They might have to do without the mansion on 36 acres, all the luxury vacations and American Girl dolls, matching Gymboree outfits, private tours and perks, etc...but many people can and do support their families without the book deals and interviews and tv shows. I think if you asked the kids if they'd rather have a fancy house and trips to Disney World, or to have their mom and dad back together in their old modest house, they'd probably choose the family. It's sad, because while it's possible to survive w/o the show economically, it does seem that the marriage is now beyond repair.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Those were exactly my thoughts too.

stella6979 replied:
Ya, I've never liked Kate, but I wouldn't call her a Monster. There are other words I'd use, but not monster. And that's why I brought up the Dilleys. They had sextuplets and did a dateline special once a year up until their 5th birthdays. Becki Dilley went back to work as a part time nurse after they were born and Keith Dilley stayed home to be with the kids. They live in a modest home and although they may not have name brand clothes, organic foods, a chef and nannies, those kids turned out wonderfully. My point is that it can be and has been done. Kate just loves the money. JMO.

cameragirl21 replied: I saw the magazine you speak of, Jeanne and briefly skimmed thru parts of the article. It seems that Kate has alienated much of her family...her own brother has been quoted saying not so nice things about her and many of her friends, as well.
That, I think, is why they feels she's gone from regular mom who perhaps got more kids than she bargained for to hellion whom no one can stand anymore.
While I don't condone Jon's actions, assuming he did in fact cheat, I can't say I blame him, he just looks like a miserable, broken man who clearly loves the kids but doesn't so much love what his world has turned into. I get that he asked for this just as much as she did but according to that article (or perhaps another one, their faces seem to grace the cover of every magazine these days) Kate wears the pants in the family, an assertion that looks rather believable from what I've seen on the show.
I see no problem with the book deals and speaking engagements, btw, the Dilleys wrote a book too and made some money that way. The issue imo is the way Kate handles that family like she's in charge and Jon is just another one of her minions.
Edited for a typo

stella6979 replied:
They may have written a book, but they certainly aren't parading them around for the entire world to see. Poor, poor kids.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Honestly...they both need to grow up and get thier acts together. Have some respect for your marriage and family and work on it for crying out loud...and that doesn't include cheating. I don't want to hear their "excuses"...that's "blah blah blah" to me because the excuses I've heard are bogus, IMO. If you really cherish your marriage and have respect for your vows then you'll do whatever it takes to work it out, period until there is nothing left you can do...even if you have to go back to living in a...*gasp*...4 bedroom house on half an acre and find a 9-5 job.

That's all I have to say.

msoulz replied:
I'm not passing judgement on them. Just saying that my definition of marriage doesn't include outsiders other than divorce attorneys . To each his own and I see this whole thing as a great bit of publicity for the show.

luvmykids replied: While I agree with you, Jennifer, that Kate wears the pants I can't stand that Jon gets to be the "victim" here. I promise, living with someone as laid back and passive aggressive as he is just as infuriating and frustrating and insanity inducing as she is, it's just not as blatant as her personality "issues".

And no matter what, IF he did cheat on her it was all on his own....you can point to things in the marriage that lead to a person doing that, but it still boils down to their own choice to do so and for that alone I refuse to let him off the hook. If he was soooo miserable, why didn't HE walk away from the fame and fortune in order to maintain some integrity? I'm sure a lot of it had to do with the kids, but imho if you chose to stay for your kids, you're CHOOSING to stay and it doesn't lessen your vows.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Wonderful choice of words Monica. ITA.

jcc64 replied: I agree with Monica. He's a grown man, and the "she-drove-him-to-it" argument disgusts me, tbh. If he was unhappy with his relationship, the responsible, adult way to handle it was not to run out and get trashed with college kids. He seems immature and I think sometimes her bitchiness is a frustrated reaction to having a 9th kid as opposed to an equal partner.

MommyToAshley replied: I don't really watch the show, but I agree with those that said this is sad. It must be hard to see your marriage dissolve, but to see it do so in front of millions while they judge you must be even harder.

mummy2girls replied:
I agree... this is what is getting me.... Yes Kate is a very bossy, nagging wife but obviously he loved her because they have been together for a while. I think what got jon is the fact he is never considered "jon" but jon kate plus 8. that would annoy the heck out of anyone. We all dont know the whole story in why he did what he did and if he did it. yes eh probably does enjoy the limelight and money and free trip and such but im sure jon did as well. Jon has the expensive car, they live in an expensive place. I think finally he snapped and is tired of all the paparazzi, and camera in your face 24/7. Any normal person would feel the same way.

cameragirl21 replied: I'm not saying Jon is innocent, Monica, just saying that I'm not sure I blame him for feeling the way he feels.
Also, Idk if walking is an option, if he walks, they lose the show, or so Kate said (in one of the many articles written about them) and Kate says they can't afford to lose the show.
Idk, I can't imagine any marriage can easily survive this kind of scrutiny and I imagine that both Jon and Kate are the way they are but that the show just magnified it like crazy to the point where they are almost cartoonish in the way they act toward each other, etc.
If Jon cheated, and I believe he did, then of course he can't be let off the hook but last night he said that he may as well be in prison and when people feel like that, they all cope in different ways.
Some just accept their fate, some lash out, some try to escape however they can, etc. When I read about Kate's tanning sessions (and she really does look overtanned and terrible imo, then again, I am so against tanning because it makes you get old really fast so I may be biased) and her hour long manicures and a show from last season where she walked into a clearly expensive boutique and everyone knew her and she was buying herself all kinds of clothes and said that she just loves to shop...Idk, to me she seems like she's becoming harder and harder to live with and the decision to walk out if you're the dad can't be an easy one...he clearly still loves the kids and walking out on them just because he can no longer deal with Kate is not a snap decision and not one that's easily made. If he stays with Kate, he has to be on the show, it's a package deal. So yeah, I do feel for him and tbh, I feel sorry for her also because I wonder myself if I would change if suddenly I became famous overnight, for no particular reason other than just being famous and suddenly had money all over the place, didn't have to work, had paparazzi fascinated with me and got all sorts of perks, Idk, how many of us wouldn't change at least a little bit? Let's be honest here....
I think Kate was probably always a PITA and Jon was probably always laid back and lackadaisical but like I said, I think the show just brought out these qualities in them to the point where they are simply caricatures of their true selves.
JMO of course.
Edited because I am the queen of typos today.

mummy2girls replied:
its hard to say... if i was a nanny to a famous person(s) i would want to be out of the limelight because i dont want the paparazzi in my face and being in teh smut magazines. It could be also that too what you are saying jennifer ... hard to say

coasterqueen replied: If I have at any point on here, where I was trying to get a point across, made it seem like I am blaming her for his supposed cheating, I apologize, because I don't believe that. I think it takes two to tango, sure, but when one cheats they are responsible for their behavior. There might have been issues in their marriage that they are both at fault, but his cheating is his doing.

luvmykids replied: ITA with most of your last post, Jenn. I think the way he feels and what he wants/needs are valid, I just don't think she's the only bad guy here and don't think he's as above the fame, etc as he likes to pretend.

I don't think leaving is ever an easy decision, for dads or moms or even couples without kids....imho, if he cheated (which I also believe), I think it was yet another passive aggressive move, "I don't have the guts or maturity to get out like a grown up, so I'll do something really bad and she'll make me leave". Not because he thought he wouldn't get caught, or made a mistake but wants to save the marriage, but because it was his way of lashing back. Which, as understandable as it may be, does not make it right. Someone elses faults and flaws don't justify our bad decisions, and whatever someone does "to" us doesn't excuse us from how we choose to react to it.

julesmom replied:
I totally agree!

stella6979 replied: I guess I'm just not understanding the immature and not equal partner part. I've been watching since the beginning and Jon is the one I've always seen actually playing with kids and letting them have some fun. If being immature means getting down to your kids level and letting loose a little bit, then I'm completely immature.

cameragirl21 replied:
me too.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I honestly don't watch the show enough to give a solid opinion on Jon's maturity and parenting skills, or lack ther'of. I do not condone his choice to cheat though no matter how far she pushed him, if that is what happened.

stella6979 replied:
I've personally never thought of him as immature, not to the extent of being another child anyways. He does the household repairs, he plays with the kids, he has a sense of humor, he does whatever Kate TELLS him to do, but I've never seen him act like a child.
As for the cheating, I have no idea if he did or not, and while I do agree that we make our own choices, I do think it's possible for people to push us to do things we normally wouldn't do. I'm not excusing it, if he did, but let's not forget that she has been accused as well.

jcc64 replied: I don't question Jon's relationship with his kids--he seems very sweet and fun with them. I'm questioning the maturity of hanging out, drinking with, and possibly having sex with college kids when you're married and have 8 kids at home.

stella6979 replied:
Oh ok. I didn't know you were talking about the recent events, I thought you were referring to his behavior throughout the show.

momofone replied: For anyone who missed what they said on the show their is a recap on yahoo.com

lisar replied: To me, religion shouldn't be in this at all. Everyone makes mistakes.

Secondly I would never let my dh cheat to keep him happy. Divorce me first. Thats just wrong on so many levels. Anyone woman in her right mind wouldn't do that.

Everything we see is not true either. I seen those magazines in the store. I didn't even bother to pick it up and look at it. Even the show is edited to make things look different.


BTW and I am not back yet, just lurking

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I'm curious about that as well.

mckayleesmom replied: I honestly think they are holding onto that show because they need it financially. Sure they get perks and freebies, but if you really pay attention to some of the things they buy/wear and drive...That all has to add up. Those kids are all decked out in matching expensive clothes 24/7, mini van, giant bus van/jon's new car, extravagant birthday parties, manicures, pedicures, piano and violen lessons, new carpet, new bedroom furniture for everyone. All of that is pretty expensive and I have a feeling that most of the money per episode is probably long gone by now...and now they have a giant mortgage that probably neither of their salaries will cover even together plus provide basid necessities.

coasterqueen replied:
I dunno, if that is the case I don't call that NEED, I call that stupidity. They didn't NEED any of those things, but when your income goes higher so does your tastes, that's just life.

Kentuckychick replied:
I think people mean they can't just disappear from the spotlight. Once you're out there in public and in the tabloids... it's very hard to just going back to the way things used to be.

Kentuckychick replied:
Did anyone happen to notice what Jon said along the lines of "It's amazing what people will say about you when they're handed money... it's like here's $20,000, I'll say whatever you want."

I have a feeling a lot of what we've been reading in the press that family members said is not true or is at the very least twisted. I also have heard a bazillion different versions of why the brother and sil aren't on the show anymore (including them just wanting their own privacy).

The things written in magazines aren't always true. Actually they rarely are. And quotes are taken out of context and are often scewed to make the story look the way the magazine wants.

Frankly I don't believe anything I've read. I saw the photos of Jon with the woman so I know he was with her. That's all that I believe. That he was with the woman.

And like Kate said on the show last night... yes she's been hard on Jon... but no this is not her fault. A person's actions are their own responsibility.

And in reference to the Dilleys... they were given a LOT more to begin with... including a new house that they didn't have to buy. Jon and Kate have done it all pretty much on their own the only way they knew how.

cameragirl21 replied:
I agree with this--they do not NEED many of those things. Jon did not NEED a spiffy new car. I'd love a fancy new car but if I ended up selling out my privacy to get then how many of you would feel sorry for me if I then complained about having no privacy while driving around town in a nice, new infiniti (I think that's what he got, isn't it?)?
And the kids don't need fancy new clothes or new furniture...at their age, they don't care about labels or prestige. And Kate doesn't need manicures or pedicures, I live without those and I'm doing just fine and don't feel deprived.
And they didn't need that huge estate either, these are all things they chose to get because the money was pouring out like a tidal wave and the truth is, with the sweet comes the sour and that is what they're tasting right now.
I don't feel sorry for Jon that he lost his privacy or whatever, I feel sorry for him that his wife has turned her controlling personality into some bizarre tyranical regime and that he has to live with that and not only be nagged at and belittled but have the whole world have to see it and judge him. If Kate weren't the way she is and he complained that they get no privacy, I'd just . And as for the no privacy, I do feel bad that their marriage probs are being aired out in front of the world but again, they chose that...they could have both said they'd prefer not to discuss that on camera...Kate chose to bring out the crocodile tears and Jon had to respond to that.
Where I don't feel sorry is the lack of privacy he got when he was partying with young girls. Sorry, buddy, but you're famous now...if you want to step out, better cover your tracks better than that or better yet, don't engage in any indiscretions that you're not ok with the whole world and your children finding out about.

Kentuckychick replied:
My brother actually pointed out last night that the "spiffy" car is really just a "spiffified" (as he put it) Mitsubishi Eclipse... so not really an outrageous buy or anthing.

And as far as the Gymboree clothes go (I've heard a lot of talk about her kids wearing Gymboree)... honestly... I think you could very easily buy your children's entire wardrobes at Gymboree and not break the bank. Kate probably earns hundreds of dollars in Gymbucks alone and I'm sure she's a member of the "club" that gets the exclusive coupons constantly. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many gymboree regulars who pay full price for anything. I think the last big sale we went to we spent around $50 dollars - earned $25 worth of gymbucks to use later on a purchase of $50 and saved around $150 total from what the original prices were. You've just gotta know how to shop there... lol.

Anyway. I really am starting to find this whole thing very interesting. Her sisters in law are doing interviews supposedly. The one sil Jodi and Kate's brother Kevin who were on the show and left because (1 - Kate didn't want her paid, 2 - TLC didn't want to pay her, 3 - they wanted there privacy -- those are only a few of the stories I've heard) did an interview where they pretty much said this show hasn't been reality for years and that it's become all about the money for everyone involved (including Jon). They are disgusted that TLC is continuing to film this show as the destruction of their family occurs.

Then you have a new interview from a sil Julie that says the show was never real to begin with. That in the beginning Jon and Kate made a "wishlist" of things they wanted for their home/family and that's what the episodes were setup to provide and that all things were purchased with the shows budget. Then somewhere along the line TLC started stepping in and staging episodes based on what they believed viewers wanted to see.

The sad fact is that Jon and Kate's marriage is now falling apart. These family members who are speaking our continue to say that they're doing it in the best interest of the children. But don't they see that they're no better than Jon and Kate themselves. They are saying hurtful things about their parents that these children will someday hear/read/see... and that's just as awful. I think everyone just needs to back off... back down... and let it go. I think TLC needs to say the show is over.

And I think they need to try and fix their marriage.

cameragirl21 replied: I could have sworn Jon's car was an infiniti but whatever, I can't say I care too much about them either way, just saying that they asked for all this and if they went along with this reality ride then they need to take the consequences and stop with the "woe is me" routine. For those of us who would love to spend our days getting manicures and shopping and living in an estate on many acres, it really gets old fast.

stella6979 replied:
Hmmm, I don't recall that. From the shows I've seen (which was all of them), they had to move to a smaller home because they couldn't afford the bigger one they were intially in. And Becki had to sell her engagement/wedding ring so they could afford to pay their utilities for a month due to Keith losing his job. They had help with the kids in the very beginning, but it didn't last long because they felt weird having strangers in their home 24/7. I gotta say, I admire them much more than I do the Gosselins. They are wonderful parents and the kids are very well rounded and happy. And they never let the shows take control of their lives.

boyohboyohboy replied: I thought it appeared that Jon has already left the marriage emotionally, he made comments to that effect and Kate seems to want it to work out..

I still feel really bad for them.

Kentuckychick replied:
Sorry... I was thinking of those McCaugheys... McCaughneys?

Those people who have the seven kids and the older daughter.

Are the Dilley's the new family? The one on the show that have the little girl with CP?

stella6979 replied:
No, the Dilley's were the first born sextuplets in the United States. I believe they are now 15.

Kentuckychick replied:
I think he's left the marriage both emotionally and physically.

I've read on several different sites that he hasn't been living in their house while Kate's been there for months... which would kind of explain the birthday and why Hannah (or was it Alexis or Leah... I don't remember) said "I don't like it when you go away." And it would also kinda explain why the older two girls have developed such helpful attitudes... sad as it is, that often happens with kids that age and divorce. It's like they suddenly have to mature.

And cameragirl -- I was wrong about the car... I had to go look it up... he has a Nissan Nismo (which costs around $60,000... so yeah... not feeling bad at all for his "woe is me" act). And I do totally agree. I don't appreciate their whining about the fame. But I do certainly understand why this is a difficult time in their lives.

I just think it's time they put the children first. They both have always seemed like rather selfish individuals. He wants what he wants, she wants what she wants... those kinds of relationships very rarely work out.

BAC'sMom replied:

OH, LORDY BEE! I sure hope he had a coupon for the new car!!!

stella6979 replied:

coasterqueen replied:
I just about spit my drink out at the computer. That was great!!!!

my2monkeyboys replied: I finally got to see the new season's episode last night, and I have to say that what I saw shocked me. First off, I noticed how different Kate is compared to how she was at the beginning. Not to say that she's any worse (or better) of a person, but she's VERY different... seems more concerned about her appearance, more... I don't know... just different.
Second of all, Jon seemed like he's gone and has been gone, with no intentions of coming back. They were so silent to each other except when Kate was telling him to go get something or do something. The fact that they were sitting apart during the interview segment was a real downer to me. I don't love these people or have anything at stake, but it really showed how far apart they are.
There was a statement Kate made about the % of families of multiples that divorce and how she thought they would make it. The one thing I thought was, if you KNOW from the get go that your marriage is going to be even more difficult that the average marriage is (which is hard enough as it is), then WHY oh WHY would you put 100x MORE stress on yourselves by doing this show? I am sure their marriage didn't fall apart overnight. This is something that's been going downhill, yet neither of them stopped (what is probably) a huge cause of it, by canceling the show. I am pretty sure the kids would probably have a happy family than all the money generated from the show and books.
I just hope they both figure this out before they end up doing/saying any more that they'll regret. Poor kids...

stella6979 replied:
Yep, like not wanting to cry because she doesn't want to mess up her make-up? Give me a break.

jcc64 replied: Yeah, I actually thought the part at the end when she legitimately started to cry but was working strenuously to avoid messing up her makeup was the most telling part of the whole night for me. Her life is falling apart, she knows it, and yet she continues to fight strenuously to maintain the facade. It was depressing. I think after the initial ratings bump, the show is going to run out of gas before Kate does, b/c the appeal to many people was watching them do everyday, normal things. Now, who wants to know how they get through the grocery store when you know what's really going on beneath the surface? It's all polluted, and as a viewer, I kind of feel complicit.
And about the relatives, how can they honestly argue that they're doing interviews "for the kids." Gimme a break--how can publicly slandering a kid's parent in front of millions, regardless of who's at fault, ever be done in their best interest?? At least have the decency to admit you're cashing in, too. Yuck!

Cece00 replied:
this x 1000

Who WOULDNT be frustrated and angry with the way he acts? And I'm not just talking about lately...

bawoodsmall replied:
I agree with everything you said. I have found that many people who are religious supposedly are the most unreligious. You never know what you will do until you are forced to figure it out. Dh has never cheated physically but really wants to and we are working on that issue. There is def love lost and I am not sure if i can get it back but we have kids(they have 8) and I would like to work it out because we do still love eachother. I wish Jon and Kate the best and I hope he realizes what an idiot he is. She may not be perfect but who the heck is and he chose to marry her and have 8 kids. Get over your self esteem issues JON.