Parents using religion to avoid vaccines - What are your thoughts?
coasterqueen wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071018/ap_on_...accine_skeptics
What's your thoughts on this story. I have always been hesitant about vaccines. I am also not quite sure how I feel about the consequences to us all for those who do not vaccinate at all. I think this could be a serious problem someday and I don't like the thought of that.
I also think those using the religion card to get out of vaccines is going to create problems eventually for those who really do have religious reasons for not vaccinating their children. I can see a whole host of legislation being introduced regarding this in the future. It will come, I'm sure.
So give me your thoughts. I think this is a really important topic that we all need to think about whether we do or do not vaccinate our children. I know this is a hot topic as well and can be controversial and it may be hard to be general on this, but I hope we can talk about this in a mature way to learn both sides of this issue.
I, for one, struggle with this issue a lot. I vaccinated my children - more on a delayed schedule per se because I fear the thought of what would happen if they were not. Or more so what would happen to the population in general if more and more do not do so -- which is happening. So this is a real issue now.
Kaitlin'smom replied: if they are using it to simply get out of it (hence lying) WRONG. but if they really do have religous beilfes aganist it I have NO problem with it. I just hope it does not come down to where its LAW to have your child vaccinated because to many are pulling the religion card. If you dont want them or wish to delay them then say so dont use some copout.
luvmykids replied:
ITA.
my2girls replied: A good book to read is More Natural Cures Revealed by Kevin Trudeau.
It brings up the vaccination debate ( which he is anti- vaccine , anti- flu shot ) and he has backed up everything with case studies and medical journal information.
An example:
In the New England Journal of Medicine July 1994 issue a studyn found that over 80% of the children under 5 who had contracted whooping cough had been FULLY VACCINATED!
Or
In Oman ( yes I know its not the U.S but please read anyway) between 1988 and 1989 a polio outbreak occured amongest thousands of FULLY VACCINATED children. The region with the highest attack rate had the HIGHEST vaccine courage. The region with the lowest attack rate had the LOWEST vaccine coverage. ( The Lancet ,Sept. 21 ,1991)
These are just a FEW of the studies that are in the book (given as examples and the first one was done in 1871!).
My 2 dd's have not been vaccinated since the day they left the hospital ( and only under the threat from the hospital that they would call CPS on us for NOT vaccinated our dd's) and they have been around whooping cough , measles , chicken pox , just sick people with the flu and they have NOT caught a thing!!
They do not even get the flu , its been maybe 2-3 years since their last cold.
I also have not given them OTC "drugs" and when my dd just had scoliosis surgery 6 weeks ago , she only had a 4 day hospital stay and was on her pain meds for only 5 days. Her doctor said he attributes that fast recovery and healing ( which when she just had her 6 week appointment on Friday revealed that she will not have to go through rehab after the 4 month mark because she is healing so well) to her never being vaccinated because her body is not used to medicines/vaccines ( you know what I mean, she has no build up from medicines) so her cells are able to recieve these meds and not fight them off and therefore her body is using the medicine properly.
Also as far as the using the religion option for not vaccinating your children , I have used that even though I am agnostic. I had to use that option when I moved from California to here. In CA you had the option to opt-out under health , religion or philosophical resons , in the state I am in now I only have 2 options ,health and religion. They do not ask what religion you are ( it is againist the law here to ask) and the reason I choose that option is becasue I do not want to battle CPS or the Health Dept. over vaccinating me children.
It is not a "cop- out" by the way. I have written to my State officals every year to allow the use of personal or philosophical reasons options to be put on the forms and I will continue to do that until it is the law, but right now I check off the religion box option.
Calimama replied: Well from the story it sounds like she is basically in a sense lying, which I never condone. 
Maddie&EthansMom replied: I have mixed feelings on this. I'm curious to read others thoughts.
A&A'smommy replied: I don't think they should lie about but I also think that we need to vaccinate, I plan on delaying with this baby and I wish that I had with alyssa.. I feel bad that i didn't know more about it. But I honestly think that is going to cause a LOT of problems not only are they going to make it where everyone has to vaccinate but its probably going to cause some sort of outbreak!! Thats JMO 
Boo&BugsMom replied: I don't understand why people would use it as an excuse if it's not a true excuse because you legally do not need any reason to not doing it. If I chose to not vaccinate my kids, all I have to do is sign a waiver stating they are not vaccinated along with their ped's signature, and our school system legally still has to take them. Not sure if that's everywhere, but that is how it is here. I guess lying about it just doesn't make sense to me. For those who do use it as an excuse and that IS the reason, then they have every right to do so. Some people do feel convicted that it is against what God, or whatever relgion it is, wants.
Boo&BugsMom replied: On a side note, Karen, I struggle with it myself as well ALL the time. It's almost like either way there are many risks and it's a lose-lose situation.
boyohboyohboy replied: I am still up in the air as to what kind of schedule to vaccinate on, however I do feel thats its necessary. I agree that lying is wrong, but then again, I am thinking if someone told me that they were going to do something to my child that I knew would harm them, or cause injury to them, what length would I go to, to make sure that they were safe? I would like to think I would always do the right thing, but I can honestly say there isnt anything I wouldnt do to protect my child, but it would have to be a drastic situation.
I think it is wrong to lie, just to get your point across or get what you want in any other situation though.
I also have a problem with the government or anyone else telling me or my kids what we can and cant do with our own bodies...
Boo&BugsMom replied:
ITA with this! 
redchief replied: Smallpox
Polio
Mumps
Measles
German Measles
All of these dreadful diseases have been nearly eradicated from the planet, and have been eliminated in the United States. Unfortunately vaccines haven't reached every part of the world, and a portion of it uses religion as a basis to not vaccinate. Everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs, so I hope that the sacrifices of the rest of humanity saves their kids.
Those who lie in order to opt out of vaccinations are COWARDS. If a person feels that strongly that their child should not be vaccinated, then take a stand. Instead of teaching their kids that lying to get what they want is OK, show them how the political process works, get involved and have the rules that make vaccinations mandatory overturned. You all know how I feel about vaccines, but I'm against any government policy that shoves something down my throat, thereby removing my freedom of choice. On vaccines, however, I feel they are safe and necessary for the greater good, so I've never taken a stand on the mandates. It was simply OK with me.
jcc64 replied: Ok, once again, I'm not argueing in favor of not vaxxing across the board- my kids are all 100% vaxxed, though I did it on my own schedule. Unlike Jennie's state, or Ca, here in NY it has to be a religious reason, and I know PLENTY of non-practicing people who claim religious exemptions like in the article. I have no issue with it, I really don't. I think it's very unrealistic, almost laughable, to say that in lieu of lying, parents should change the system. The system doesn't represent the needs of ordinary parents and children, and believing in the power of one's own voice in the current political arena is a very quaint, albeit delusional notion. Even in the best case scenario, if *chuckle chuckle*, someone was actually able to get some attention from their representatives, their kids would probably be out of school by the time any commision was formed to study it.
Imo, people do what they think they have to do to protect their kids, and if lying (to who, exactly- faceless bureaucracies, school boards, the Supreme Ct, policy makers, who)- is the only way to keep them out of harm's way, then so be it. If I felt that way about vaxxes, (and I kind of do, actually), I'd have absolutely NO TROUBLE WHATSOEVER lying about it, if I felt the gov't backed me into a corner and was asking me to do something that I felt was dangerous for my kids. I'd let my kids know about civil disobedience, in which I strongly believe, and I'd be very comfortable doing that, because in the end, this is MY truth: our government has utterly, completely failed us on this issue. I don't have a clue about what to believe anymore, and I don't have the scientific background to figure it out on my own. There are drs who say they're safe, there are drs who say they're poison, and of course, figuring out which ones are on the payrolls of pharmaceutical companies is another story alltogether. I am furious that I can't trust my gov't to put the needs of children ahead of corrupt or inept gov't regulatory agencies and greedy corporations, and help us parents sort this all out.
I thank God that my kids were the lucky ones, and my heart breaks for those kids and parents who drew the short straws. I'm with them all the way on this one.
gr33n3y3z replied: All of my children had their vaccines when they were supposed to be given and they are fine
Katie just had her Meningitis Shot today she is a freshmen in high school.
To lie about it so they dont need to get them its between you and God in the end its no ones business.
redchief replied:
In one way, you're right. I alone would have an impossible task ahead of me if I were to take on a political issue alone. On the other hand, how is it that these things become mandatory in the first place? Did the majority of the populace demand that vaccinations be required? No, it didn't. The medical and pharmaceutical lobby caused mandatory vaccination guidelines to go on the books. So how do we get to have as powerful a voice? The same way the lobbyists do, make it very clear to your representatives, whether they be state or federal, that forcing these things down your throat will get them out of a job.
Used to be that took a lot of money. But with the internet, all it takes is networking. I think if you work hard enough at the grassroots level, and you have the support of the majority of parents like yourself, you can force your legislators to do your bidding. It takes work, fortitude and resolve, but I think it can be done. Even irrepressible nannies want to keep their fat government representative jobs.
Whining certainly never works, unless you can gather together a whole lot of whiners. Of course, finding and working the loophole system works for a while anyway. Sooner or later though, the nannies will close the loopholes. I've participated in some grassroots campaigns that indeed caused legislators to back off of even party-popular bills. Call it laughable if you want. I call that the democratic process at work. The only things more valuable to a politician than money are votes.
jcc64 replied:
I don't know about that, Ed. And I don't think the democratic process is at work any longer in Washington these days, tbh. I think it's very very broken.
My cynicism disgusts even me, but I can't help myself anymore. It's sad.
mysweetpeasWil&Wes replied: Like Jennie, here in Colorado, all you need is a waiver and a signature from your ped and the shcool has to take you. So I just don't understand the need to lie. My ped questions me when I ask to delay, but she doesn't hold me down kicking and screaming. She doesn't go telling the rest of the world that I didn't do such and such vax on schedule. She can't. So why oh why would anyone feel the need to lie about it? Yes, I would go to great lengths to protect my kids, and lying may be in that equation, but in this case, it's not even necessary.
my2girls replied: Rae,
You are very likely , you live in one of the 15 States that allow the exemption of vaccines for philosophical reasons.
It is very easy for you ( and many others here ) to not be concerned, I was like that when I lived in California. Now I live in a state that does not allow that exemption so I take the religious exemption and like I stated before I write to my state officals ( along with a mother's group that I am with) all the time and use my voting power as well to let my officals know that I think philosophical reasons should be included in the exemptions.
luvbug00 replied: About people who lie. I think they should re-evaluate what they are doing, i don't think it's right.
as for vaxing I am very pro. that is all i can say 
redchief replied:
I know what you mean. I refuse to give up, though. Over time I've written all of my representatives in both Washington and Trenton, and I've spoken personally with each as well on various issues. I can be tenacious when my stubbornness kicks in.
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