Popularity question

PrairieMom wrote: Do you want your kids to be popular? Like would you take steps in the ways you raise your child to ensure that they will be part of the popular crowd? How important is it to you?

I was having a conversation with a friend of mine who has a little girl Al's age about this, and we have different view points.

of course, all our communities are different and this is just how things are where we live.

She wants her daughter to be popular. She only buys her designer clothes, she enrolled her in an "upper class" preschool where all the Dr's kids go, she has her in gymnastics to prep her for cheer leading with our local competitive team . Since High school cheer leading is based on tryouts, you basically have no hope of becoming a cheer leader in HS if you aren't on the competitive team first.
She wants to start saving $ for her daughters 1st car so she can have a really nice one when she gets her drivers license at 16. She doesn't want her to have a job when she gets older so she will have more time for social stuff, and fully plans to give her daughter what ever it takes so she can fit in with "in" crowd" So, basically she is thinking this through, and making strategic moves to give her daughter the best chance at being popular. It is really really important to her.

I, on the other hand don't want my kids to be popular. I guess I wouldn't take drastic steps to make sure they don't get popular, but i'm not grooming them for it. Actually, if I had a choice, I would prefer for them to not be popular at all. I would never dream of saving up for a brand new sports car for my 16 year old kid. My kids are going to have jobs, and work for what they want. If they want a car, they are going to have to buy one them selves.


So basically in our community, you have to know the right people, have $ and look a certain way to be in the "in " crowd.


Both of us think the other is
But anyway, it got me to thinking about it. We both have such drastically different views.

moped replied: Yeah every person is different how they raise thier children.

For me, nope I don't care either way. I want them to be happy and nice people and good freinds to thier freinds. thats all I want

I don't care if they are not at all popular, and I don't care if they are wildly popular.

If they take after Tom and I they likely would be popular btu that certainly isn't because our parents groomed us this way at all

If i could guess, I would say Jack will be popular and Laila won't (onl;y because of her timid personality)

luvbug00 replied: IMO she is raising her child to have no idea what to do with herself once she is on her own except look for handouts. nothing irritates me more then spoiled teen brats.
that being said. Not grooming mya to be anything. she will buy her own car, work a normal job and earn most things she will own (designer clothes and bag and what have you) as soon as she is old enough to earn the money herself.
I will only pay for her sweet 16 but you can bet your buns it wont be anything like what you see on tv.
Mya already is heading into the "hot topic" emo type scene and those kids are typically not popular, but whatever, i like her being all overdramatic and stuff, she can be soo funny when she acts that way.

PrairieMom replied: My friend and I came from different worlds too, so that may have something to do with it.
She was in the popular crowd, so thats what she wants for her kid.
but I was exceedingly unpopular. I was the one picked on by the popular ones, looked down on, and I would never ever want my kid in a position where they would be looking down on people, or hanging out with people who act that way. My friend never had to live through that.

I agree that giving her kid everything sends a bad message IMO. But, Its not my kid. I'll screw mine up my own way I am sure.

I don't think Ben will be popular, He just doesn't have it in him to be the Jock, he gravitates more towards computers and that kind of thing. He will be a computer nerd just like his daddy.

Al will just beat everyone else into submission, I don't know if she will be popular, but when she grows up I am fairly certain she will be the dictator of some small island nation somewhere.

moped replied:
Funny stuff!!!!!

Ok, so Tara,if you were picke don and looked down on, why would you want that for your children? For it to just happen is one thing, but you said you actually want them to be un popular.........

PrairieMom replied:
because it made me a stronger person. There are 2 sides to it, either you are the picker or the pickie. I don't want them to build themselves up at the expense of others, i want them to be compassionate. I don't want them to go through life thinking that they have to have the right clothes or the right car in order to be excepted, I want them to have self worth.

Ok, so I sound like I think that all the people in the "IN" crowd are shallow horrible people, and that isn't how I feel, I'm just speaking generally.

and its not like I am teaching them to pick their noses at school to sabotage them or anything. I'm just not buying them the name brand clothes, or the cell phones in 3rd grade or what ever else happens to be the hottest new thing, just because all their friends have it. They can play city sports instead of private league and things like that.

MommyToAshley replied: I just want Ashley to be comfortable with who she is, and I am not grooming her to be popular or unpopular. I hope that I raise her not to be the bully, but I also don't want her to go through the pain of being an outcast and picked on either.... and I don't think that you have to fit into one of those two categories.

It seems like everyone in Ashley's school knows her regardless of what grade they are in... she waves, smiles, and says Hi back to everyone. She knows no stranger. She even got the ambassador of peace award at her school. But, I think other kids like her because she is kind to them. It certainly isn't because of her designer clothing as she wears uniforms or because of our income because there are many well-off kids that go there and we make sacrifices so that she can. I love this age when they are so innocent. I know things change when they become teenagers, but I hope to instill the right kinds of morals into her at an early age so that when she grows older, she doesn't value herself because of her possessions or how she looks. I think if she grows up to love herself for who she is, then all that other stuff won't matter.

On a side note...Ashley did try cheerleading for two years. She decided that she preferred playing soccer instead. She's also very into music, baton, and dance right now. She has tried out several sports/interest, but I have tried to let her follow the path that interests her and not mold her into anything one way or another.

Nina J replied: I don't want them to be popular purely because they would be popular. I want them to be happy and confident with themselves, and I want their friends to be good friends. It doesn't matter if their friendship group is popular or not, as long as they're happy.

I don't understand why she is grooming her child for an existence that, effectively, ends following high school. We had the popular group in high school, the people who were 'better' than everyone else, who liked the same things and wore the fashionable clothes. It must've been nice for them to be able to command the hallways and all that jazz, but it was a status that took them as far as graduation.

There is a real world out there, and from my own personal experience, the social competitiveness that you find within your peer group doesn't extend past high school. Yes, there is still social competitiveness. But what gets you further in the real world is a quality education and a good head on your shoulders. A child that has been raised with the sole focus being on social standing is going to find it very difficult when they get out there in the real world and find out that it isn't all about social things. If you have had everything served to you on a silver platter, including your friends, what is going to happen when you have to go out and get it yourself?

If my children are popular, so be it. If they aren't, it does not matter. As long as they surround themselves with people they appreciate and get along with, and are happy, that is all that matters. I will focus on raising appreciative children who know the benefits of hard work and a good personality. There are much more important things in life that the clothing on your back and the car you drive.

MommyToAshley replied:

~Roo'sMama~ replied: I want my kids to be well liked and have lots of good friends that ARE friends. I don't care if they're in with the popular crowd or not. What your friend is doing is pretty sad, I think, and she's setting her daughter up to be a spoiled little snob.

stella6979 replied:
Could not agree with you more!!!!

msoulz replied:
Very well said - and so true. It is amazing how the "unpopular" folks become popular at the 10 and 25 year reunions because the have actually done something with themselves!

coasterqueen replied: Do I want them to fit in at school? Yes. Do I care if they are popular? No. I find it a confusing situation for me, really. Why? Because I moved out into our current school district in 6th grade. This district is entirely different from what I originally went to. I went to inner city public schools where there was a diverse culture of people and I moved out into our current district, which at the time was a basically all Caucasian school, which a few other nationalities, but no african americans at all. Any time one would move out there they were not welcomed and moved right away. I also came from a poor school district then moved into this VERY RICH district, where even kids drove corvettes and fancy cars. I never fit in that school at all. NEVER. I had friends, but I never felt welcomed or really apart of such the tight nit community it was. Ryan did, but that's all the community he knew. My parents thought I'd fit right in as ALL my uncles and aunts (11+ of them) went there. No, that just made things worse for me.

Even though I never fit in, I badly wanted my kids to go to the same school district I did, because even though I made our district sound terrible, it really is a VERY GOOD school district. We have a diverse community of race now, which wasn't the case when I was there. I know that. The problem now is a LOT of people I despised and didn't get along with in high school are now teachers in the district. My poor children will have to endure these teachers that I despised and they knew it and they despised me. I hope it doesn't affect them. SOoooooo because of that I try extra hard to be a part of our school district community, but I have no intentions of making her "popular".

I'm not sure if that makes sense or not. My kids will endure the "oh your mom and dad went here and they were this and that" as well as "your aunts and uncles went here" kinda of thing. Poor kids. At least their daddy had a good rep in the district....their mommy.......not so much AT ALL.

jcc64 replied: Interesting topic, Tara. To directly answer your question, I'd say that I want them to be happy, first and foremost, and to remain true to the values that I've hopefully instilled in them. The conflict you describe between your parenting style and that of your friend sounds like a definite difference in values in general. She clearly covets "stuff" in all of its forms, and assigns great import to material acquisitions. You, well, you belong here in my East Coast hippie town.
But having a couple of kids that are either right in the middle or have already passed through the popularity sweepstakes, I know that how our kids relate to and are received by their peers permeates the emotional well being of the entire family. And to say that you don't want your kids to be popular is kind of curious to me. Maybe what you mean is that you don't want it to consume them, or to cause them to lose sight of the values you want them to have. But if, like Dee Dee's dd,it comes to them as a simple matter of course, why wouldn't you want it for them? Being popular is often easier--popular kids often receive better treatment from teachers and coaches, right or wrong, it's just the way it is. Kids in the shadows are often overlooked or forgotten in the classroom. Again, I don't condone that, and good teachers find ways to engage all of their students, but we all know there are plenty of crappy teachers out there.
My oldest is 17, with one foot out the door. He's enjoyed a modicum of popularity: captain of the football and baseball teams, lots of friends in many different "groups", a very active social life. Still, I wouldn't put him at the top of the popularity food chain. Because, like both dh and myself (and you, it sounds like), he's sort of put off by some of the rituals of social climbing--makes fun of it, actually. So, he knows his comfort zone, he stays true to himself, and he's exactly where he wants to be. My 14 yo ds is more in the thick of social anxiety right now, and though he's clearly in the "popular" crowd, I still watch him struggle with all the typical adolescent insecurities. Anything that can make life more socially comfortable for your kid at this difficult stage, you want it for them. I wouldn't force them to swim against the tide just for the sake of making a point, kwim? I'm not saying I'd buy them stuff just to position them well socially, and my kids are defiantly anti-Hollister, Abercrombie, Urban Outfitters, or whatever else is deemed trendy by the "right crowd." (thank god, b/c I'm not paying $65 for a crappy t-shirt) I'm simply pointing out that I'd work with my kids if having something was really important to them, even if I didn't necessarily see its intrinsic value.

PrairieMom replied:
This is very true. We are very different in that way. We were raised very differently, and she has a completely different view on things than I do. She is black, in a town where there is basically zero ethnic diversity. I think that she was brought up feeling like she had something to prove, and still feels that way. Her having all that "stuff" for her is a way to show that she belongs in a certain class. I personally don't think she needs stuff to prove anything. I like her either way. Although, it does get old hearing her complain about how lucky I am that I can stay at home with my kids now, and how she is in debt and always broke. HELLO!!!! She would never consider buying second hand or doing other things that I do to budget our $ so I CAN stay at home. Its a life style choice.

As for the kids...

I don't really think that it has to be all one way or the other either. I'm not grooming my kids to be either way, I'm just saying that if I HAD to choose, like someone held a gun to my head, then generally speaking I would choose for them to not be in the popular crowd. They are going to be what they are going to be.

coasterqueen replied:
Off topic, but it is not ALWAYS a lifestyle choice to be able to stay at home with your kids For you, maybe, but not for all.

PrairieMom replied:
Not saying it is. But, you are right, it is for me.

coasterqueen replied:
I was just saying maybe your friend, and obviously you'd know more than me, can't live off one income, even if they did buy second hand, etc, etc. I was not posting because I'm offended, I'm not. I, personally, could stay at home, but I'd have to give up our home, land, and move into an apartment, and put our kids in very terrible inner city public schools in order for us to have me stay at home. It IS a life style choice for me to not do this, it's more important for my children to have more room to grow as well as an education in a good school.

When you say that it is a life style choice to stay at home, I'm thinking of those who only have one income, or have two, but it is still a very low income, they might not have that opportunity because of low income earnings for it to be a life style choice.

PrairieMom replied:
Its way off topic, i'm just saying, i know her, i know her situation, she could do it too, but she is unwilling to make changes.
anyway, thats not the point,

PrairieMom replied: cont. ( texting from my phone in the car rider line. lol)
i just thought it would be a good topic of conversation. We haven't had one of those in a while. :-)

moped replied: I think it is a choice as well as not a choice - LOL

For me it is both.........I cannot live like Tara does, I know this about me (spender)......and I also have to work, that is just the way it is. Otherwise, like Karen said, we would have to give up our home, vehicles, etc etc, and that won't happen!

coasterqueen replied:
Sorry.

coasterqueen replied:
We'd give up at least one vehicle now, too, if we could, but we live in the country, so no riding bikes on country roads and highways to get to town. We can't get bus transportation out where we live, not possible, lol.

We try to only use one vehicle as it is. We also only keep one car payment going at a time. We did the 2 car payment thing and that was not fun.

PrairieMom replied:
my phone cut me off at a bad part of that sentence.

I just gotta say, its nice to have a dialogue going around here again. Stupid facebook. I miss you guys.

coasterqueen replied:
You know, I've always had that mentality, too, but I also have the mentality that I grew up poor. I grew up not getting to do a lot of sports or extracurricular activities because my parents couldn't afford them. They didn't pay my college. I lived on my own at age 17. I struggled for along time on my own. I had a job since I was 15. It took me 10+ years to go to college because I had to work full-time to have somewhere to live, food to eat, etc. and I didn't have a car then either. I had to bum rides. I will be paying for my college (and Dh's) well into the time Kylie goes to college.

I don't want my kids to struggle like I did. Why should they have to. I'm not going to handle them a silver spoon, but I'm not going to make them earn everything either. My kids will probably have to pay towards a car, who knows we haven't discussed that yet, but I'm sure we'll help too. So saving for a car right now really isn't a bad idea. My kids aren't getting sports cars, but they'll get a more decent car than the piece of junk I did have. That thing was a death trap!

And in some communities, especially ours, you DO have to know the right people and even have gone to the right schools in order to get any where in this town. SERIOUSLY. If you are Catholic, go to a certain school in this town, and being a Cubs fan doesn't hurt either, and your family knows almost everyone you will have no problem having a great career here. We are a political town, the capitol, so it will always be who you know. So with all that said, even I have considered moving my kids to that particular school, so they don't have to work 200% harder to get anywhere here in the workforce. I chose not to, well becuase Dh said no , but also in order to do that we would have had to give up other things - one being health insurance and a few others (it's a private school).

So I guess I can see why some people may have that mentality. Especially if you were brought up in it as well.

My3LilMonkeys replied: I want my kids to be themselves, which will hopefully be well behaved, respectful and well liked. I could care less if they are popular or not, and I certainly won't be buying them sports cars or designer clothes anytime soon.

moped replied:
Yeah 2 payments is yucky....we currently only have one payment, and Toms vehicle was paid in cash (so that is ours), but I pay for mine which I HATE!!!!!!

I am not very good at making too many sacrifices at all......that is why Tom and Im sut work and he makes it work by staying home with the kids and working when I get home after work!

PrairieMom replied: we haven't had a car payment in nearly 3 years. Since doing the Dave Ramsey thing, we saved up and payed cash for DH's car last year and it was so much fun! way more fun than having to haggle over the details, and there is such a sense of freedom driving it off the lot! Its not something I ever thought we would be able to do. I hate making payments on things.

jcc64 replied: I appreciate the effort to get a dialogue going, Tara. Is Facebook the reason things have been a little dead around here? (not a Facebook person yet --probably the last person on the planet)

Danalana replied: Very good conversation topic, Tara!
In high school, I wasn't popular at all, unless somebody wanted to cheat off my paper. When I got to college, I was wildly popular, but that was mostly because I came out of my shell more and was sort of the clown.
As far as my kids...I want them to be honest and respectful. I want them to be confident in who they know they are and in our love for them. I want them to be true, faithful friends. Yes, I want them to be liked, but that's not the same thing as popular. I don't care if they're popular, as long as they are compassionate and kind to others.
I'm definitely not grooming them to be popular. I buy their clothes at some department stores, but that's because I want them to be of good quality. After all, Carter will wear a lot of Kade's hand-me-downs. I don't buy an outfit from Gap or The Children's Place because I want them to be popular. It's interesting...Richard and I were talking about what all we would like to see them try in life. He wants them to play football (I do too) and stuff. We LOVE sports. But I will also be ok if they wanna be in the marching band. Actually, I want them to learn to play at least one instrument each. I don't plan on trying to force anything in particular on them.
Tara, the popular kids in my school were like the ones you described in yours. They really looked down on people who weren't in their group. I SO don't want our kids to be like that. It's funny...I'm friends with a lof of them on Facebook and everybody is nice now. There don't seem to be false pretenses or anything anymore. If kids only knew that all of this stuff only lasts for a season!
I know I rambled, but I answered the question in there somewhere.

PrairieMom replied: Dana, our stuck up kids are still stuck up to this day. I used to work with one or two at the hospital, and they would pretend that they had no idea who I was. They were HORRIBLE to me tho, not just ignored, more like actively picked on. Chased home from the buss stop, duct tape put in my hair, stuff like that.
I would be SO mortified if I ever heard of my child acting like that. Then they would all go to drinking parties and smoke pot and what not. I just want my kids as far from that scene as possible.

moped replied:
OMG Tara, that stuff would NEVER have happened when I grew up NEVER! That is terrible. I would say that is more like the bullies, not the popular kids.......the popular kids are the sociable and nice kids, at leaast where I come from!

PrairieMom replied:
not here. Here they look down their noses at you, spread lies behind your back, write things on bathroom walls about you all so they can sit in their little tight nit groups and laugh at you.

moped replied:
Well that is just WRONG!

PrairieMom replied:
guess that explains why i don't want my kids to be popular. LOL.

moped replied: No kidding, I guess we should have defined what we thought popular meant!!!!

Now knowing this, i hope you didn't get the wrong impression of me. When I said I was popular in school, I certainly wasn't THAT kind of person - OMG NEVER

I was the nice girl, everybody liked me, cheerleader, bubbly blond type.......roll your eyes now......but anyways, I am sorry you had times like that in school.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: i was the picked on kid in school too Tara. I was chunky, had thick glasses, curly hair shaped like a 'fro..and becasue i moved around a lot i never really had time to develop strong friendships... and i never had the same local accent as others do.

ps - i speak like they do on tv. canadian accent my a*&!!! ya'll are the ones with the accents.. i speak L.A. talk.

anyway.. my kids get picked on a little bit at school... and i just tell them to suck it up and know that they are better than those who pick on them, becasue those who pick on them have nothing more interesting in their life to keep them occupied.

I don't want them to be unpopular...becasue I don't want them to be treated like I was.. and so i make sure they don't look like twits when they go to school, or do stupid things to make matters worse.. but i certainly don't deck them out in brandnames and give them all kinds of knick knacks to make them get with the "in" crowd.

They'll be who'll they'll be.

Besides... after high school all the popular kids fall back to the bottom of the pond as freshman in university or college... not having been there in the first place, more unpopular kids will have an easier time adjusting.

PrairieMom replied:
ITA. I was also blessed with having made the decision to go to a college that wasn't one of the big colleges around here. I was the only one out of my graduating class of 300+kids to go. I got to start completely from scratch.