Potty Training Problems - Help!!!

Farelle wrote: My 3 year old decided about two weeks ago (out of the blue) that he was done with diapers and ready to use the "big boy underware" I was so proud of him as up until that point he would NOT use the potty. It's been going very well, I am quite impressed. He does have his accidents but he is good about asking to go pee. Our problem is the poop part. He did poop twice on the potty but since then he does not ask to poop....as you can imagine this leaves quite a mess for me to clean up
I've heard that the pooping part is often harder to learn. When I ask him why he doesn't tell me I either get no reply or he tells me he is scared.
Has anyone had this problem? Any suggestions? I don't want to go back to diapers or pull-ups bc he has been doing so well, but one more clean-up like this morning and......

Boo&BugsMom replied: I've heard this many times from parents. Honestly, I don't have any advice other than to be consistant with it, look for signs when you know he has to go #2 then send him to the potty. Maybe have him put some cheerios in there and flush them so he can see how it goes down??? Did he say why he was afraid?

Farelle replied: He's a sneaky pooper!! I watch him and watch him and the minute I turn away......ha ha! We did have an incident where he was sitting and trying t go and he couldn't.....I tried to explain to him that sometimes you just have to sit for a few minutes. We tried reading and I tried my best to distract him. He's VERY impatient!! I have a feeling that has something to do with it.
I bought him a special cookie today that I am going to try and bribe him with tomorrow.....we'll see if maybe a yummy reward will get him to the seat in time!?

DansMom replied: Daniel was an extra year with #2---he really was freaked out by pooping. His solution was to withhold as long as possible---going days holding it in. Poor kid. One thing that flipped the switch for us was to (1) sit and read with him while he was going, and (2) moving to a soft seat on the big toilet so he can flush after, and (3) reading various books about going potty---we even got "Everyone Poops", and it's a silly book, but it makes it seem normal and interesting to them.

redplaydoh replied: My boys loved that Everyone Poops book. Silly stupid book but they LOVE it.

I started making my boys clean up their own poop mess. They had to wipe, rinse the poopie underwear then take it to the washing machine. At first this doubles the mess for you to clean up because I usually ended up putting them in a bathtub afterwards as well, but it doesn't take long before they realize cleaning up poop isn't so nice and that mommy doesn't like to do it any more than they do. This got them pooping in the potty really fast.

Farelle replied: The biggest problem is just getting him to the seat at all! He's good about asking to pee, and will do the usual holding his pants when he has to go, but the poop... is sneaky. I can be standing right next to him and he'll show no sign that he has to go...then he'll announce, "I went potty"...ugh!
I tried to tell him that every time he makes a mess in the new underware that I was going to throw them out (I had to toss one pair, it was beyond my capabilities to clean )But that didn't work, the next time he just said, "You're going to throw them out" and didn't seem to care.
I HOPE it doesn't take 2 more years!! ugh!!!!!!!!

ZandersMama replied: this may sound yucky, but i took my 2 year old in with me when i went. he would say "mommy poop?" i would say yes Zan, do you have to poop? He hasn't had an accident in ages, in fact i can only remember once since he started to use the toilet that he had a poop accident, but we've had a few pee ones

mummy2girls replied: this is whjat i did... i have a 4 year old boy inmy dayhome that acme still in pullups. he would always poop his panmts etc etc etc.... So the next time he pooped in his underwear I told him he needs to dump his poop out in the toilet, wipe his bumb, flush and then wash his hands. he was getting poop on his hands and he hated it. So that did it for him he enever pooped again in his pants

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Ok - I HAVE to say this....and I'm really sorry if it offends some....

a 3 year old is PERFECTLY CAPABLE of using the toilet properly. It's just a matter of butting heads.... you have to stand your ground, make your expectations clear in order to "win".

At 3, it's no longer an uncontrolable thing... kids play the parent... at 3, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect that a child can use the bathroom in the proper fashion. For me, anyways, when a child is potty training.... accidents happen, yes, but when the child soils themself on purpose, it's a consequence, such as a time out. I tell the difference between accidents and time out by circumstance.... like if the child says they have to go, and we hurry but we don't make it on time, that's an accident. But if the child goes and THEN says they went... that's on purpose. 3 or 4 days of this, and it's done.

For what it's worth... i've trained 4 children so far, one at 22 months, one at 20 months, one at 19 months, and one at 27 months. The first three took a few days only, and the last one took about a week, with accidents for several months. That one took longer because the mom wasn't on board, and still isn't... he's not "clean" at home, he still wears diapers there....and usually on Mondays and sometimes on Tuesdays, we have relapses with accidents since he wears a diaper all weekend.

I hope that really doesn't offend... but I really don't believe in waiting until the child is ready to use the toilet... i can't stand seeing a child who can feed and dress themselves on their own still have to crap in a diaper because they're too scared to sit on the can. Irks me to NO END. I think it's an indulgence that's just not appropriate.

But I would never judge a parent for choosing to keep their child in diapers or pull ups... it's a personal parenting choice it's just not for ME!

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I wholeheartedly agree Rocky!!! Many times (not all, just many) waiting until a child is "ready" only gives them more control and then you end up with a child who is 4-5 still in diapers. That, in my professional opinion, just is not developmentally appropriate. It works for some, but in many cases it can backfire, and when a child is MUCH older the training can become a lot more difficult. By 3, children have that physical control. Are they all mentally ready? No, but "not mentally ready" usually just means "they don't want to" or "they are being lazy about it". They CAN, but just choose not to...which in my book is not acceptable. By a certain age, it's time to put the foot down about it and it doesn't become a choice anymore. Choices are good, handing over control is not. No offense to anyone. After training dozens of preschoolers in daycare and having dealt with many lazy parents (not saying anyone here is, just the ones I have dealt with), I have strong views on it.

Side note...I love the Everybody Poops book. It's pretty blunt. The illustrations are hilarious!

Boo&BugsMom replied: Oh, just want to add that many times children are stubborn about going poop and training in general because they want control of something and going potty is one of the only things they have their own control over so they latch onto that control. Try giving him more choices without giving him that control. Example...which underwear do you want to wear...do you want to try the potty now or in two minutes...do you want to sit on the potty before or after lunch? Still giving them a choice, but not control over the situation. In the end you still get him to do what you expect, but he is given a choice and thinking he is still in control. It's a mind game really.

lisar replied:
I agree. I think at age 3 they can do it themselves. Lexi was trained before her 2nd birthday. Raygen I am having more problems with. She doesnt understand the whole concept yet. But I havent given up and she will be 2 next month.

DansMom replied: Well, I do in general appreciate the practical, no nonsense approach you guys recommend, for kids who are normal about PT and control issues. However, there are kids who are sincerely hold it in for days until they are in physical pain. I'm not sure the no-nonsense approach works for those kids (I could be wrong).

moped replied:
I would be curious as well

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
When there are issues such as that, that's a whole new ballgame. I think most parents can tell the difference, in their child, between plain ole stubborness and saying they're scared, just to avoid going, and a real fear which physically prevents them from going and causes medical concern. I'm not trying to say that it works for everyone... i know plenty here have had issues with the potty training, and holding it in, and I'm not implying that you guys aren't standing your ground.......

I'm just really saying that in "this" case, it sounds like stuborness on the child's part... and the parent should just be able to go the no nonsense route. In this case.

Boo&BugsMom replied: I had a child once who was scared to use the potty. Come to find out, her parents were coddling her and babying her about it. She was 3, and they would literally baby her to no end. It really didn't help the situation. I think when kids are fearful, they need to be taught that it's not something to be fearful of, just like with anything else. You don't have to be mean about it, just getting them to understand it's not something to be afraid of. Coddling and babying them only makes it worse and gives into their "fear". Some kids are also legitimately fearful, others are not.

indywndy_04 replied: My son had this problem, and i was given the advice to not flush his poop in front of him. For whatever reason they think it is a part of their body and dont want to get rid of it. I know to us it sounds silly, but when I stopped flushing his poop, he finally was ok with it and would use the potty to go poop. I would wait until he took a nap or left the room and forgot all about it before I would flush it.

Farelle replied: [QUOTE]but I really don't believe in waiting until the child is ready to use the toilet... i can't stand seeing a child who can feed and dress themselves on their own still have to crap in a diaper because they're too scared to sit on the can. Irks me to NO END. I think it's an indulgence that's just not appropriate

Uh....I'm sorry but I totally DISAGREE. I don't believe in FORCING a child to do anything they are not ready to do, control or not. Maybe it IS scary to sit on the toilet and poop for the first few times. I'm sure you've done things in your life that have been scary and maybe you needed a minute to prepare. I know I have. And when someone tries to FORCE ME to do something I don't want to, you can bet I will resist with all that I have. I'm not going to scare him into doing anything and I disagree that it's an indulgence. I was looking for some ways to HELP him along not "I hope no ones is offended" opinions. BC usually when it starts out that way, you know you're going to offend someone so maybe it's best not to say what you're going to say.
I really like this site, but MAN some of you are quite harsh in your thinking..... Not that we're all going to agree on how to raise our kids but I can say that I am NOT going to scare my kids to get them to do something.

moped replied: Well I am kind of with you farrelle, Jack is 3 is June and NOT trained at all, we are waiting til he is 3. When he hits 3 apparently it is easier and quicker. The more Jack is forced the more he steers away from the toilet - and when we tried a while back he was not happy and then took over a month before he would even think of going near that toilet - we decided from courses I have taken etc that we are waiting til 3 and not going to spend 6 months or more trying to train him........we will see how it all goes.

Farelle replied: [QUOTE] Well I am kind of with you farrelle

Thank-you!!
We started out with total resistance too and just post-poned it until we felt he was ready (there's that awful word again - ha) And then one day he was READY (ahem) and told me that he didn't want diapers anymore so we went right to the big boy underware and it's been 2 weeks now since he's had a diaper (except for at night bc he is a BIG time peer when he sleeps, although his pull-ups have been dry in the morning, it's more for the just in case) He's had a few accidents but overall has been excellent about asking to use the potty, except for pooping. We had a poop incident early on and I think that is what is holding him back. He got scared so I think he's still scared. And I'm sorry....to say that it's not ok for a 3 year old to be scared of something just IRKS me....
Anyway, I'm sure you'll know when the time is right for your little one too. And I am just going to hang in there with my little guy. I know he'll get the hang of it, it just takes time to learn things.

Boo&BugsMom replied: [QUOTE][QUOTE=Farelle,May 25 2007, 09:45 AM] [QUOTE]but I really don't believe in waiting until the child is ready to use the toilet... i can't stand seeing a child who can feed and dress themselves on their own still have to crap in a diaper because they're too scared to sit on the can. Irks me to NO END. I think it's an indulgence that's just not appropriate

Uh....I'm sorry but I totally DISAGREE. I don't believe in FORCING a child to do anything they are not ready to do, control or not. Maybe it IS scary to sit on the toilet and poop for the first few times. I'm sure you've done things in your life that have been scary and maybe you needed a minute to prepare. I know I have. And when someone tries to FORCE ME to do something I don't want to, you can bet I will resist with all that I have. I'm not going to scare him into doing anything and I disagree that it's an indulgence. I was looking for some ways to HELP him along not "I hope no ones is offended" opinions. BC usually when it starts out that way, you know you're going to offend someone so maybe it's best not to say what you're going to say.
I really like this site, but MAN some of you are quite harsh in your thinking..... Not that we're all going to agree on how to raise our kids but I can say that I am NOT going to scare my kids to get them to do something. [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Ok, something is wrong with the quotes, but....
Just two quick things...I base my opinions on the last 8 years I have been an Early Childhood Professional, not just a mom. I certainly do not know everything and I am the first to admit that, but my 8 years in the field and teaching dozens and dozens of children I would hope would account for something. And that includes many potty training situations. After having to deal with many lazy parents in this field who do not want to take responsiblity for training their children and look for the easy way out of many things, is why I agreed with what Rocky said. I'm not calling anyone here lazy by any means, but I have dealt with the cream of the crop of lazy parents who coddle their children endlessly...anyone working in the field has and it tends to change your view on MANY things. Rocky is in the same field as myself.

I don't think Rocky was harsh at all. She stated her opinion, it wasn't pointed at you specifically in all her points, more in general. Usually when people say "no offense" it is their way of making sure people know they are being sincere and to not take it the wrong way, because we all know how people can get when they assume and takes things incorrectly. Sometimes people's opinions can sound harsh when they are the opposing view. You asked for ways to help, and she gave you her suggestion, even though it wasn't a suggestion you agree with.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Who said it wasn't ok for a 3 year old to be afraid? All I said was that they need to be taught and shown that it's nothing to be afraid of. No different than a child who is afraid of the boogyman. Wouldn't you tell your child there is no boogyman and help them get over their fear?

moped replied: I have heard one little trick about pooping and I have no idea if it works BUT they don't like i when it splashes up and gets them wet so to put toilet paper on the top of the water and they poop and it won't splash and scare them

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Good idea! I've even done that for myself... . I'm 30, and even I don't like to be splashed, esp. in a public restroom...ICK!

moped replied:

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
Ok, I can play this game too. (ahem)

Well I still think it's an indulgence... and I would never do it, but like I said earlier, I'm not judging anyone who is.

I think that waiting until children are ready, for certain things, is fine...(again, awful word) but not for a natural bodily function. Just like they blow their nose in a kleenex rather than on their shirt or in their hand, they should "go" in the toilet or the potty and not their pants.

Waiting until your child is ready for everything will only probably lead to an over indulged child, who later in life is socially delayed due to having been used to doing everything at his or her own pace. (I'm talking general here, not anyone in particular, and this is taken from ECE classes I took via my daycare agency) Kids these days have extremely high standards to live up to in the social world...the real world... and already children who are out in the real world find themselves unequipped to deal with everyday problems...and thus the higher rate of drugs, suicide etc... if those kids were better equipped to handle real life stress, such as a fight between two preschoolers over a toy - but mommy steps in and handles it for them... well what happens when they're 7 or 8 and STILL can't fend for themselves because the parents always took care of the problem or removed the child from the situation? 14? 25?

(((Totally not saying any of the kids who are taking drugs or have killed themselves are or were socially unequipped... but only that it's likely. There are other circumstances of course.... but usually drugs and suicide are used when the person feels like things are relaly out of control and they can't handle them.....)))

Being a daycare provider and a school volunteer in my 4 year old son's class now and again, I can see, physically, emotionally, mentally, the difference between children who are coddled at home and allowed to do everything at their own pace, and children who are gently encouraged to follow along at society's expected pace without being downright cruel about it.

If you are offended by that, I really am sorry. I wasn't meaning to offend YOU, or ANYONE else. Thank you Jennie, for explaining that my advice that I offered when asked, was just a suggestion, not an accusation.

Farelle replied: [QUOTE] i can't stand seeing a child who can feed and dress themselves on their own still have to crap in a diaper because they're too scared to sit on the can. Irks me to NO END

I agree that it is the parents responsibility and not a teachers ( I think that was what was said) but I just don't agree in forcing a child to do something that they are not ready to do. Making my point again.....we tried potty training when he was two and he was totally resistant so we let it go and just like that two weeks ago he WAS ready and we did it without me having to force him and he felt comfortable and is now excited to use the potty and pick out big boy underware, etc. Would he have done it sooner if we forced him? Maybe but would I have been forcing him to do it for his own good or for mine?
As for being harsh.....I think the above quote sums that up. I mean just because a child can feed and dress themselves doesn't mean they are ready to do everything else. Every child matures at their own pace and as a parent I think we need to recognize that and go with it.
Anyway...I'm not here to argue. Yes I did ask for help....but I think that there wasn't a whole lot of help in that reply, just personal opinions.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
Like I also said... there are obviously different circumstances, and parents should be able to recognize if it's a silly fear that kids say they have to get out of "going", like the endless "one more hug, kiss, glass of water" before bed when kids tend to drag out their bedtimes, rather than a real fear.

I said it IRKS me. I didn't say I forced them to anyways.

Farelle replied: Ok....so since I am letting my child poop at his own pace he's going to grow up and be a suicidal drug user???

I think you are getting a little carried away. And just bc I am giving him some room to learn this on his own (which I believe is a good way to learn things...on your own, not my force) I sincerely don't think he's going to grow up with serious issue bc of it. It's only been TWO weeks since we started...it's a learning process. Should I punish him when he's in school and not learning as fast as the other kids? I mean that's basically what you are saying, right? That bc other 3 year olds can master potty training in no time, my son should too.

I'm sorry, you're probably a great day care provider but I just disagree with your opinion.

moped replied:
Ok I will also chime in here!

Rocky, I think there is a HUGE difference between codling and waiting until a kid is ready to pee or poop on the potty. I don't coddle Jack one bit but I am not forcing him to pee or poop.

AND I highly doubt my child will be socially delayed, I gueses it is hard because you don't know my child, nor do I know yours, but there is NO WAY that he is going to be nor will be socially delayed in any way shape or form

Potty training is touchy with some people - I have seen it and I brush it off and say we have it handled.

moped replied:
Your child will not be a suicidal drug user!!!!!

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
No that's not what I'm saying at all.....

Maybe someone else can explain what i'm trying to say.

Room to learn is great... but there has to be certain limits... you don't let your child color on the walls or dump their food on the floor, right? Why not? Probably the same reason why you don't poop in your own pants....?

As for punising him in school.... it's not about punishing him... but schools won't deal with poop!!! (at least mine doesn't). The kids are told to clean THEMSELVES up, the teachers can't even go in the stall really... and they are given their extra change of clothes... if they don't wipe properly, too bad, you know? so the child is then possibly humiliated by friends in the class... and you will probably be embarassed upon meeting the teacher and hearing a horrid poopy pant story....

I hate this language thing.

Jeanne, where are you when I need you!!!!

moped replied:
Oh I think you can fight your own battles Rocky

Boo&BugsMom replied: I believe Rocky used the drug user comment as an example, not a comparative.

I get what you are saying Rocky. Too bad I don't know how to explain it any better either!

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
Yeah my mom never took my toys away...

Boo&BugsMom replied: Well, at least the thread has turned around to bantering instead of throwing grenades. I thought someone was about ready to explode.

And Jen...I'm sure Jack will be fine with potty training when he starts. If you call yourself the sleep nazi, I'm sure you can get the title of potty nazi under your belt too.

Farelle replied: Coloring on the walls or throwing food is an entirely differnt issue. I can correct that when it happens, and I do. But I cannot FORCE my child (or a grow-up for that matter) to poop on command. And I'm not even talking about it in reference to a school issue. I'm sure by the time he goes to school we'll have all the kinks ironed out. I would expect him to be in control of it by then.
Like I said, he's 3!! And we just started not using the dipaers last week. I understand where you are coming from. And I agree that with you that if I were a child care provider I would not want to clean up other peoples kids poop too, BUT if there was a child that was slower to get the hang of it than the other's of the same age I would not think less of them or think that it was unacceptable. Every circumstance is different. Kids all learn at different paces and ages.
Ok....I think I am going to end on that note....unless you write something that I just can't resist.... I have a friend who ALWAYS disagrees with me and we banter like this all the time....I'll never give in!!

Hillbilly Housewife replied: I'm glad that it seems at least that you "realized" i'm not "trying" to be mean or anything... lol

it's not about pooping "on command" though, it's about when he "does" poop, it goes in the toilet, not in the pants. It's the "where", not the "how".

I don't think any less of the child nor of the parent when a child is a little slower than the average... every child is different of course and all have different rates of learning... but it's whether the parent is grasping whether the child truly is not ready, or if the child is keeping as much control of the situation as they can.

Children are extreme manipulators... not out of spite obviously... but as they grow and learn....they also learn what buttons they can push, and continuously test to push their limits... kinda like if it ain't broke, don't fix it... if mom gives me a treat when i poop in the can instead of my pants, i'll poop in my pants a couple times then I'lll get a treat when i go in the toilet... and it's important to know the difference between reall if they are afraid, of if they're just "saying" they're afraid for the extra attention.

Farelle replied: Believe me I know all about manipulation. I often say that my son is TOO smart for his own good. I KNOW he does things on purpose bc it pushes my buttons and I am TRYING very hard not to let my buttons be pushed!! But it's hard to do sometimes. That could be a whole other thread....

And the more poop in the toilet the better I second that. But he's a tough little cookie and I'm just not finding the right way to get this to work 100% yet. I did try making him sit there and I think that's what got us into trouble in the first place. It was a bad experience for him and now he's reluctant to do it again. He's very sensitive about things. Being our first we probably babied more than we should have as an infant and now we're paying for it But I'm trying really hard to correct my mistakes and work with him for the best outcome.

I'm still not going to agree about forcing him though....I believe that it will eventually work out in it's own time and until then I'll just keep trying to find a way that works for both of us.