President Obama

my2monkeyboys wrote: Basically just wondering how people are feeling now compared to when he was first elected.
If we debate, let's keep it civil people. I'd love to see a good honest talk without it getting locked.


I have always been unsatisfied and still am, even more so now than before. There have been one or two decisions he's made that I have agreed with, but for the majority I've not.

Most what I'm looking for, I guess, is whether anyone has changed their position/opinion on him and his administration, whether towards the good or bad.

mckayleesmom replied: Unsatisfied and still unsatisfied. I'm really hoping that he changes my mind soon. I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt because he hasn't been in office long. There are things that take more then a little time to fix...so he has room to grow there.

My main problem with him right now is him talking about how bad the economy is right now, which it is, then he turns around and flys Michelle to go see a broadway play in NYC...That was spending that didn't need to happen right now.

jcc64 replied: I am a HUGE fan. I don't think he's perfect, but I have more faith in him than I have ever had in any politician.

boyohboyohboy replied: I honestly think he really wants to do what is best for the country, and he has this whole "dream plan" for america, but I dont think he thinks he can fail...

I also think if he had more experience it would have helped him..
I dont think he is going to be able to take on the huge problems we have, I dont know who could have...
but right now I am concerned.

I also agree that it doesnt look good for him to be doing all this lavish spending when his speechs have been about how much he feels for "us". He wants to help the commone people...but he is really living it up. I agree thats its the freedom of america to do what you want with what you have, but he is also representing us, and should be being a little more careful about how he presents himself..I think we would have more respect if he had spent that outragious date night money on some charity..

msoulz replied: IMHO it is too soon to tell. He certainly isn't just sitting around doing nothing but is he doing the right things?? Only time will tell and history will be the judge. He inherited a pile of dung for sure - I am not sure throwing money at a pile of dung is the way to make it better but then if I had a better idea I would run for president. And THAT would be scary!!

jem0622 replied: It's funny how unhappy folks are and he is just over 100 days into office. Past generations, past screwed up stock market people, and past decisions are what this President is dealing with. It takes a long time and a lot of changes in many areas to fix this big mess. Regardless of party lines, it is a big mess...and all parties had a part in it.

Just my two pennies

boyohboyohboy replied: when you say that we all need to have fiscal responsibility and that we need to tighten out belts to make things better..and the man who says to do that doesnt..its hard to think that he is a man for the people.

I have nothing against him personally, he is trying I agree, but he doesnt so far appear to be making any changes that have helped up..
I think time will tell as with all presidents..I just hope our children dont suffer for it.

my2monkeyboys replied: I'm not as irritated over his decisions concerning "fixing" the economy as I am over what *I* feel are comments/actions that have made us appear less than the great country we really are.
I don't agree with throwing money at the economic problems we have - I think it may work for a short period but then come back to bite us in the butt; but I think there are other decisions that are just as or even more important than that one that are just not in our best interest.

coasterqueen replied: Unhappy and always was. I'm not for a socialist country and never will be and that is what this president is for. He's extremely progressive. Everything else is mute for me.

jcc64 replied: I think what I've learned from this poll is that this board is wayyyyyyyy more conservative than the rest of the country appears to be. 60% of the people on this board don't like him, never have, and apparently never will. That is not at all in step with how the rest of the country is polling. That's pretty eye opening for me. I've always felt like a political oddity on this board, but maybe it's just that this board is far more right leaning than I'd originally suspected. Not a judgment--just an observation.

PrairieMom replied: I think this country has to give the man a chance. With everything that is going on, it is likely that things won't be straightened out until after his term, and into the next one. These things take time. We are a culture of people who like instant gratification, and get upset when we don't get it.
And really, as far as the economy, IMO, its the bad habits of the general public with lack of savings, and borrowing to much $ when they shouldn't that tanked the economy. and until they learn to change their ways, nothing in going to change, no matter what Obama does.

coasterqueen replied: I don't think I am not giving him a chance. I know it takes time to straighten out the economy. I don't expect instant gratification and never will. Working in the political arena I've learned to be very patient. It's how he goes about things, what he believes in, how he thinks the government should control more, etc that I will NEVER give him a chance on as long as he thinks that way.

You have no clue why others feel the same as me. They may feel the same because of his beliefs, etc, not because the economy isn't changing right now.

PrairieMom replied:
Karen, I'm not attacking you.
I have a clue why people may not like him. I just don't share the same reasoning.

coasterqueen replied:
I know you aren't attacking me and if my post came off as I thought you were I'm sorry. That's why I didn't quote you. I am just simply stating that a lot of people, not just on here say we need to give Obama a chance and that it takes time to clean up this mess. It's not that people (at least me and others I personally know) aren't giving him a chance to clean things up, it's how he goes about things and his beliefs, etc that we aren't giving him a chance. Dh and I were talking about this with some friends this past weekend - we are all repubs - we at least hope he comes to the middle like Clinton did -- but don't see it happening. Obama is very comfortable with taking us into an extreme socialist direction - I'm not.

ETA: And I accept everyone's opinion on him. I don't expect EVERYONE to have the same opinion. I just don't like hearing that those who are against him aren't giving him a chance.......A LOT are when it comes to the economy. I don't think anyone wants to see our economy the way it is.

my2monkeyboys replied: It is interesting to me that while some who were happy with him have now turned not-so-happy, there are none so far who have become a fan of his who were not already. I guess I just assumed there would be votes both ways.

For those who voted that your were satisfied and now are not, would you mind filling us in on why that is? I think it's fascinating to hear why people change their minds about things like this.

ETA: While I consider myself an independent rather than a republican, I am certainly a conservative. And I agree with Karen that I see this country heading in the direction of socialism at a high rate of speed, and I will never be on board with that. I think that may be where a lot of people are having problems with this admin?

coasterqueen replied:
I agree. I'd like to know why some have changed their mind. I've not met anyone IRL that has, but I've talked with people online who are and it's interesting to hear why.

I'm getting ready for our work summer retreat and there are going to be MANY Obama fans there, as I am from IL, and we don't just invite repubs , so I'm trying to see other sides before I go.

my2monkeyboys replied: Here is today's Rasmussen Poll, but those who are interested. I think it is showing what the poll I posted is showing -- a slight decline of those who were supporters in the beginning.
If you scroll to the bottom of the page you'll see a chart that really shows the stats more clearly.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_con...l_tracking_poll

youngmomofone replied:
I agree

cameragirl21 replied: I'm extremely displeased with his foreign policy so far but then again, that is one arena in which I tend to lean more the right. When it comes to domestic issues, I guess I am what many would call an "extreme left winger" and as far as that goes, I would say I am fine with Obama. I don't approve of his lavish dates with his wife but then again, who's to say past presidents didn't do the same? Not a big fan of this bailout BUT I don't disagree with a bailout in principle, I just think it should be targeting the individual in trouble in the form of extended and raised unemployment benefits, low cost insurance for those who need it, some attempt to create jobs, etc.
I think a huge part of the problem we're having is that our country's companies are outsourcing to India, China, etc in an effort to save money...the other day, I had to call Target's customer service and was stunned to be speaking to someone in India. That costs Americans jobs, you know.
I am about to start a company of my own that will ONLY be doing business with US companies and will be getting all the products and services needed in the US, even if that means taking a cut off of my profit. I'd so rather keep jobs here in the US and that is one thing I think Obama needs to focus on. To be fair, not that it's relevent here but just so that no one calls me a liar later, I do intend to import one type of product from South America but ONLY because that is where the product comes from, it's not a US product.
I'm not amused that he would give speeches in Cairo while the unemployment rate here is rising and we have plenty of problems here at home.

luvmykids replied: I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way about him: It's nothing personal, I happen to like the guy in the sense that he's got great charisma, can get a crowds attention and keep it, speaks well, etc. I just don't agree with his views and the plans we've heard and seen bits and pieces of so far. I don't know anyone IRL (who voted for him or didn't) who expected miracles, my dissatisfaction doesn't stem from lack of results. It stems from what he proposes to do, how he represents us, etc. I am still completely flabbergasted that he bowed to the king of Saudi Arabia.

coasterqueen replied:
Yet, he's suggesting giving other countries (Palau for instance) large sums of money to take prisoners of Gitmo off our hands. Wow, that money would be well spent somewhere else for sure.

As long as big business continues to be taxed left and right they are definitely going to outsource to other countries. It happens on smaller scale as well. In IL businesses are leaving left and right for other states because of the fact that they just keep targeting bigger business like crazy on the state level. This is one area that I will never understand under the democratic principles. Big business provides jobs -- continue to target big business -- loss of jobs. Granted I know big business (and i know someone will come back and say what about banks, car manufacturers, AIG, etc, etc who've wasted money, etc, etc) have screwed up and take advantage of being big business but without them -- less jobs -- high unemployment. Obviously there is more to it than that, but a simplest explanation to my reasoning that I can give.

TheOaf66 replied:
that is what got him elected

jcc64 replied:

What got him elected is that he is fiercely intelligent, intellectually curious, inclusive, measured, willing to consider issues from more than one angle, and most importantly, the polar opposite of Bush/Cheney.
It is rather insulting to suggest that people who support Obama only do so because they have been mindlessly captivated by his magical voodoo powers, like we're all a bunch of Jonestown cult members. We elected and support him for substantive reasons, not because he's a captivating speaker. (though as an English teacher, I must admit it's refreshing to be represented by someone who can consistently put a grammatically correct sentence together for a change. If I want to listen to someone speak like a simpleton, I'll go to the corner bar. I don't want to see it at presidential press conferences. How we speak and represent ourselves to the world does, in fact, matter)

jcc64 replied: And as for poll ratings, this is from June 8:
http://maristpoll.marist.edu/majority-laud...ob-performance/
So I don't know how to reconcile it with the information previously posted about a 60% disapproval rating.

msoulz replied:

I seem to recall that was Wal-Mart in the beginning. That was Sam Walton's plan. Not sure if that changed under his direction or the second generation.

cameragirl21 replied:
I don't know that I'll ever be anywhere near as big as Walmart, Mary, but thanks for the vote of confidence.
I am never going to outsource, ever, I don't care how much it costs me in profits, I am starting this company so that I can work for a company that holds to MY ideals and keeping jobs here in the US is one of those ideals.

jcc64 replied:
I'm curious what you or anyone else thinks should be done with these people. The 17 Gitmo prisoners you cited are Uighers, who have been cleared as potential enemy combatants. For those of you who don't know, Uighers are a Chinese ethnic minority who happen to be Muslim. I guess it took our gov't 7 yrs to figure out they probably never were a threat to the US, and to me, sending to them to Palau is small compensation for the 7 yrs we kept them wrongfully confined.

msoulz replied:
Yeah, I fear Sam has been rolling over in his grave for some time now.

jem0622 replied:

I'm with you, Jeanne. Thanks for saying it for me.

Calimama replied: For real? (Unsatisfied and) always have been...

Always have been? He's only been President for like 4-5 months! I'm sorry.. I think you've all got him confused with God. No one flip out, I'm kidding.

I'm not his biggest fan either but I'll give him some time before I decide.

coasterqueen replied:
I personally think, no matter who was the president at the time or whether we agree with it or not, that we should finish what we start. Which means dealing with our own prisoners. You make it sound like they will be on vacation or something going to Palau. We have NO clue whether they will be treated fairly or not. We're basically just saying "here, we don't know what to do with them, so you take them and here is a large sum of money for you to deal with them". Me don't comprehend that one.

coasterqueen replied:
That's what is great about this country....I don't have to like it. And i don't. Thank goodness!!!!!

coasterqueen replied:
Nah, I can say always have been unsatisfied with him because he was a state legislator in my state, and a federal legislator in my state......wasn't satisfied with him them....so I've "dealt" with him before his presidency. Heck, I even sat at the same table with the man for a fundraiser our work put on for him.

Danalana replied:
LOL...I have to disagree. I am very right leaning, and I am almost ALWAYS in the minority on EVERY subject. And, by "the minority", I mean 3-4 people...maybe. I don't think people on here are leaning anymore to the right, but just don't agree with Obama's specific ideas/policies.

luvmykids replied:
I didn't mean to imply that at all, just stating that for me it's only about policy and views....I was trying to illustrate that I think he's a likeable guy and I don't aim my dislike for his politics at him as a person.

my2monkeyboys replied: He may be a very nice guy - I think most of our presidents probably have been/are. But I do not agree with his policies.

And for what it's worth, he speech pattern drives me up the wall! He reminds me of Capt. Kirk!

TheOaf66 replied: so Biden would be like Bones?

my2monkeyboys replied:

coasterqueen replied:
OMG, I just about peed my pants with that one. I love your sense of humor!

moped replied:
I agree 100% if you don't mind a canadian chiming in!

We follow Obama as much or more than our own!

Crystalina replied: For some reason I already knew the way this poll was going to sway before I even voted.
Hmmm. Wonder how I knew already?

Oh!!! I know my peeps.

I voted 2. Somewhat satisfied and always have been and that' just because I'm a bit miffed that he has not stepped up to help the gays in the military. That "Don't ask, Don't tell" crap needs to be gone. The way I look at it is that these men/women are good enough to die for their country then let them be what they are already! What is this? The freakin' stone age?

Crystalina replied:
I'm not sure why everyone says that people only voted for him because he's a good talker. C'mon! Give us more darn credit then that will ya?



So then....if it's good talker that gets voted in then what should we think of all those who voted for Bush?

Blah, blah, blah...fumble for words....stare into space...chuckle at the camera and make a really bad joke hoping nobody notices you have no clue what the heck your talking about...and blah, blah, blah some more. Oh! and weapons of mass destruction. Blah, blah.

Crystalina replied:
Outsourcing PEEVES me off like you don't even know!

I try to buy American as much as I can but sadly you can't always find American made products.

I am very proud that every part of my business is AMERICAN MADE! Every piece of yarn I use and even the needles and the website I sell from.

Crystalina replied:
Well, people don't want them here but they don't want them there either?

Make up my mind already!

jcc64 replied:

No one more than me, b/c my livelihood was outsourced 2 yrs ago!

Very funny about the Capt Kirk thing. I actually think you have a point there.

About the Uigher thing, suffice to say that like the war, we really should have thought the whole enemy combatant, screw-the-Geneva-Convention mess that is Guantanemo before we started warehousing people who may or may not be guilty of crimes against this country. Even the Bush administration conceded these particular 17 Uighers are not a threat to us. So why are they still incarcerated????? If there's anything I can get down on Obama about, it's that. The only reason they have nowhere else to go is b/c no one wants to alienate China. Not a good enough reason, but if we're not gonna take them, the least we can do is find a nice place for them to go, and Palau seems as good a place as any.

luvmykids replied: Nevermind

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
HAhahahahahHAHAHAHAH AHHa ha ah ahah omfg HAHaha ha ah aha ha ha ha!!!

Cece00 replied: I dont hate the man, but I also am not really impressed with him either.

coasterqueen replied:
Well, I never said I don't want them here. So I'm assuming when you say people don't want them here nor there you are talking about IRL people. I say start what we finish.

coasterqueen replied: BTW, just because someone is NOT a good public speaker doesn't make him an idiot. If that is the case tons of intelligent people (I'd like to include myself in that ) who do not speak well in public would be considered dumb, now wouldn't they?

I think Bush was a pretty cool man. Down to earth and not so uptight. I know, I know....come sling it at me. Maybe he didn't appear to speak well in public because he didn't want to use the teleprompter 24/7 like Obama does. Obama can't speak w/o it. Haven't you seen footage of him stuttering like a fool because the teleprompter wasn't working. Now he insists on several back-up ones so that never happens again. So just because he can read well from a teleprompter doesn't make him anymore intelligent of a speaker than Bush. Oh, I'm sure I'm gonna get mud for that one.

stella6979 replied:
I tend to stay out of political discussions, but wanted to say that I agree with this statement 100%.

TheOaf66 replied: well Karen, no flaming from me...this is one area we totally agree on

coasterqueen replied:
You mean we don't ALWAYS agree? Now why not?

TheOaf66 replied:
well I can't think of anything recently we have disagreed on but I think the two of us are labeled as less tolerant when it comes to the current political situation.

lisar replied: I am not going to say anything bad or good for that matter on Obama (it will just get deleted anyways)

I just think that Obama doesnt have the experience as some other candidates. Not saying that in a bad way so take as you wish.

I still see it as I had to vote for the best of 2 evils. I didnt like McCain all that much either. I just think there are more qualified people out there to run this country.

lisar replied:
Just to add, the speeches on the teleprompter he doesnt even write those speeches. He has a staff that writes them for him. He picked a good one might I add.

coasterqueen replied:
Good point, Lisa. That is true and true for ALL presidents, etc. Their speeches might sound eloquent.......but it isn't their words, it's the speech-writer's. Of course, they have final say, I'm sure, but not their original thoughts for sure.

Danalana replied: Karen, I also completely agree. I was actually thinking of mentioning this, myself. I don't give a flip how well someone can speak (even if it's NOT from a teleprompter) if they don't do what they promised. I don't think "good" public speaking makes someone a good president...maybe easy on the ears, but not automatically a good president. I also don't think someone who isn't a good speaker is automatically stupid. I am SO tired of hearing the mistakes President Bush made in speaking. So what? I guarantee you there were presidents in history who were very good, but weren't articulate speakers and often fumbled over speech.
Everybody knows I didn't vote for or support Obama, but that doesn't mean I sit around downing him. I actually don't talk about him IRL. I do think he deserves a chance...unfortunately, as was discussed on this board before, he already went back on some promises. You have to admit that criticism and judgment start early on in any presidency. President Bush's name probably wasn't even dry before there were thousands of critics. It's the same with all of them. People want to act like this is a personal thing against Obama, but history shows it's not. No matter how good the President is, there will always be groups who declare his/her incompetence from the beginning. I think that's sad, but it's true.
And while I'm at it, why do people make it sound like Obama is the only one who has taken over the Presidency and needed to "fix" some issues that had happened over time? The federal deficit didn't get like it is over night. It's been headed that way for a while...even while Clinton was in office. Yes, it was bad when Obama took over, but it's not like Bush took it into his hands and crumpled it. Obama has been spending money left and right since he was sworn in, and I doubt that will help the deficit. Of course, I am not an economics expert
Jeanne, I aree that it's important for the President to be able to represent our country well, and public speaking is a part of that. I'm no English teacher, but it WAS my favorite subject in school. No, Bush wasn't a good speaker, but it seems like people judged him on that so harshly that nothing else mattered. I think that's wrong. I also think it's wrong to assume that Obama is a genius because he is a better speaker (I'm sure there are other reasons, but his speech is what is most ofted cited).
Time will tell how well he does as President, and I do hope he is successful. I just don't feel good about things when a president goes against his word right off the bat.

jcc64 replied: We're gonna have to disagree on the Obama is not really as smart as he appears b/c he uses a teleprompter. I know this has been a favorite topic of Fox News/Lord Limbaugh, so I'm not surprised it's entered this dialogue. I need to remind you that ALL politicians use teleprompters and we all accept that political speaking engagements are almost always highly scripted events. Ronald Reagan, infamously known as the "Great Communicator" appeared at my high school while he was still president and I can tell you from first hand experience that every freaking move he made was calculated and preplanned--I saw the cue card thingies with instructions such as "pause for applause," "look left," "smile," etc...So please don't suggest that Obama's reliance on teleprompters is somehow related to a lack of intelligence, or you'll also have to apply it to the patron saint of the Republican party as well. Furthermore, unlike Bush, Obama is not afraid to hold regularly scheduled press conferences where he has to speak off the cuff and answer questions spontaneously, and not once have I heard him fumble an answer or sound like an idiot. And unlike Bush, his staff actually allows people other than party patrons and hand-picked reporters with softball questions into his press events. I know you will never concede an ounce of admiration for Obama, just as I never will for Bush, but the teleprompter issue is a pretty weak argument that he's unintelligent. I'll give you that he sounds like Capt. Kirk--that one I'll admit.

coasterqueen replied:
I think that was the point we were trying to make, Jeanne. Everyone makes fun of Bush for not speaking well, etc....we were just trying to say that everyone relies on the prompter and speech writers, etc and that it doesn't make ANYONE less intelligent for it.....so no need to disagree......

coasterqueen replied:
Oh and I don't think Obama is that way w/a teleprompter because of Fox News.....I know it because I've physically been around him when he wasn't president and when he spoke w/o a prompter. Just because I listen to Fox News doesn't mean I think it's the Gospel.

TheOaf66 replied: Well going away from the prompter thing and speaking well and

Some of the things you just said are another issue. What I got out of that (correct me if I am wrong) is that Bush sucked, screwed up, wasn't fit for Prez etc.

My opinion in the last election was not so much that Obama was that much better of a candidate but a good portion of people would have voted for anyone who was not affiliated with Bush. You could have put Carrot Top on the ballot and as long as he said "I will do the opposite of Bush" he would be sitting in the White House now.

Now I am not above giving the guy a chance but so far what I have seen (keep in mind I don't follow Politics much) is he spent a load of money to bail out businesses, went on a few fun vacations, and apparently really warmed up to Islam.

Now I don't claim to be any expert or anything but this is what I perceive and my opinion and so far I can still have that as an American...it may not be that way for long but for right now I still have the right.

jcc64 replied:

Actually Dana, the deficit did get that way overnight, or at least, during one of the many nights of the Bush administration. When Clinton took office he too inherited a deficit, which he managed to turn into a substantial budget surplus by the end of his term. A surplus--meaning we had extra money in the bank, in simple terms. So for those who like to label the Democrats as the tax and spend party, keep that in mind. When Bush came in, he ELECTED to wage two astronomically expensive wars while simultaneously cutting the taxes needed to pay for them. Did I, as a middle class person see a life-changing tax cut, no, maybe a gratuituous $800 stimulus check that did nothing to alter my lifestyle, but the benefits enjoyed by the top 10%, aka the richest of the rich, are by now very well documented. Did their good fortune trickle down to us little people in the form of job creation----you look at the current unemployment rate and answer that question. So, by the end of Bush's term, we are left with the results of a president who, like many average Americans so routinely cited by conservatives as the sole cause of our current economic mess, spent far more than he had coming in, and left the country essentially broke. As a direct result of his policies, we are in the worst economic crisis we've experienced since the Great Depression, and it's far from over.
So these are not small problems that Obama's responsible for ameliorating. Our country's in real trouble. So instead of focusing on whether he uses teleprompters too much, or the fact that he took his wife on a couple of dates, why don't his adversaries come up with some alternative substantive solutions to problems that real people are having on a daily basis? Maybe then they might begin to crawl out of the political wilderness they now find themselves in.

coasterqueen replied:
Jeanne, I love ya, but to seriously blame one president for the massive amount of problems we have is just well.....I'll just say BLEEP. First off anyone who knows even the least amount of economics and history in general knows that it takes a lot of time for these things to happen. It's not Bush's fault for the Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae probs....that was Clinton's admin that caused that beef -- not Clinton himself but his democratic legislature, etc. The fall of all these large companies played a huge mess in all of this and you can't blame a president for that. He's not in charge of their moral beliefs and what they do, seriously, and I don't want ANY government in charge of things like that. Oh wait, doesn't the government now own more of the car companies than the car companies themselves? Yeah, that's smart. I'm thinking back to the days of the creation of the constitution and how we wanted to be free so we didn't pay the Brits more taxes, etc.......hmmm......I see a terrible direction we follow now.

We are at the hugest rate of unemployment because of all the companies going out of business.....how is that Bush's fault?????

The war....well I'm only going to say we should have gone there, any president at that time would have and if you really think that wasn't the case....well we must remember the democratic congress wanted us to go to war. The majority of american people wanted us to go to war. Then when Bush did everybody cried foul and pointed the fingers at him.

Just because a president came in with a surplus means jack diddly. I've watched governors who left with a surplus (Republican governor who is from IL and now in jail) and Demcratic governor (now awaiting trial) who blew the surplus to pieces and caused a deficit, but guess what? It wasn't just the current governor's fault...it was the practice of the previous Governor who left the surplus.

There is no one piece to the puzzle. What Bush did did not complete the puzzle of failure.....there were a million other pieces to that puzzle of failure And the same will be true for Obama.

For me, it all comes down to I don't want to go towards a socialist direction and Obama is doing just that, IN MY OPINION. Which is why I don't like him. HE himself isn't making all the decisions. Anyone who knows a tiny bit of politics knows that someone like him without the experience knows that there are way too many other people as well helping him to call the shots......so I can't just blame him for the direction I think we are taking. I, personally, feel like throwing in the towel, quit my job, let Obama take care of me, let him give me everything I need in life and well....not be independent whatsoever. I'll just let the government RUN everything in my life.....boy that would make life so much easier.

coasterqueen replied: Btw, I reread what I just wrote and it sounds a little hostile.....not the case.

I LOVE the fact that we all can have difference in opinions. Life would be pretty boring if we all had the same opinions/feelings.

DVFlyer replied: I don't follow politics very closely but to me, the position of president is more of a spokesperson than a "leader" etc. All of their decisions are influenced by other people and one must scratch another's back to get things done.

jcc64 replied:

I think for lots of people who don't bother to educate themselves beyond the surface, I'd say that's probably correct. What was interesting about the last election for me is that McCain and Bush actually used to DESPISE each other, mainly b/c of a past presidential primary during which Karl Rove, working on behalf of the Bush campaign, accused McCain of having an illegitimate black child in order to court the racist vote in NC, when in fact he has an adopted Bangladeshi daughter. How someone who used all of his political connections to avoid the draft could so blatantly assasinate the character of John McCain, one of this country's most distinguished war heroes astounded me and spoke volumes about his own (lack of) character. So I did find it sadly ironic that McCain's biggest downfall during the 08 campaign was his close association with Bush, who I think he probably can't stand, in reality.
For me personally, I turned away from McCain when he very candidly admitted that he has little interest/expertise in economics, which was exactly the wrong thing to say. I also had concerns about his health and age, and silly as it is to say, the fact that he doesn't know how to use email blew me away and reflected a person very out of step with his times. I like the man and admire his service tremendously, and once upon a time, would have supported his candidacy, but not this time.

jcc64 replied:

Financial companies don't HAVE moral beliefs, they are by their nature designed to maximize profits AT ALL COSTS. Greed is an inherent part of human nature, and the conservative impetus toward deregulation blatantly ignores that one very basic fact. I believe the role of the gov't is to protect the COMMON good, not just the good fortunes of the very well connected. Runaway greed, consented to by BOTH parties but most definitely tolerated and even encouraged by the economic policies and tax cuts of the Bush administration, is what brought down Wall St.
The gov't doesn't have to run the companies, unless of course they prove themselves incompetent to handle the billions of dollars they begged for. It infuriates me that the banks aren't obligated to account for where that money is right now. And btw, Bush is the one who insisted on the bailout, and much of that money was handed over by Bush, so if Obama is a socialist, so is Bush.

lisar replied:
I agree with Karen on this.

Bush didnt create this hole the country is in now. Everyone done it.

Everyone wants to blame Bush, but why is that no one wants to point out that back in 2004 and 2005 this country was GREAT. The economy was at a high. Heck the Small Business I work for made 10 million dollars that year, thanks to the economy. And that was while Bush was in office. But as soon as the economy starts to fail everyone has to blame Bush for it. I know that has to do with why we are where we are now but to blame one man for just blows my mind.

And to say this happened over night, well I have to agree to disagree with that.

coasterqueen replied:
Jeanne, come on. I'm not saying that one issue is why I believe Obama is taking us in a socialist direction. I know Bush was for the bailout. It's not just the bailout that is leading us in a bad direction, IMO, I just am not going to type out every issue I believe personally is taking us there. It was just an example. And as I've repeated a 1000 times, it's not just the president who makes the decisions. It takes the legislature as well, which is democratic majority controlled. So it's not just Obama, it's not just Bush.....please remember the legislature has a large part to do with anything that happens. Not one person will ever have that much power to be to blame for everything.....we designed our constitution so that could never be the case So Bush isn't the only one to blame for us going to war....so was that democratically controlled congress. I wish you would see that. I wish you would stop blaming Bush for everything and know he isn't the only mastermind behind all the decisions. Neither is Obama, the legislature is as well. I think you would have less hatred towards one person if you realized that, and if you already do realize that....please give equal hatred to the rest of the democratic congress that makes these wonderful decisions at this point.

ETA: Heck, I'd be a happy camper if they just got rid of Nancy Polosi.

lisar replied:


Financial companies don't HAVE moral beliefs, they are by their nature designed to maximize profits AT ALL COSTS.
That is so true. I have to say it.

As for the gov. well I personally dont want them to have control over anything

Edited to add that all of them are socialist.

lisar replied:

luvmykids replied:
But some of this economic fallout has it's roots under Clinton....after all, he is the one who put the pressure on banks to enable greater numbers of people to buy a home. Yes, the economy and the national budget were in good shape when he left, but some of what he did to boost the economy are the very same things that are now blowing up in our faces. It was during the Clinton administration when the lifestyles of the rich and famous came knocking at the common persons door....I was a mortgage broker then and had more loans on my desk than I could handle. The majority of people were using those refinances BACK THEN to fund their new found sense of entitlement. Those were good times; everyones home values were up, everyone could "just refinance" and take once in a lifetime vacations every year, drive a new car every year, etc. Did it get ridiculously out of hand during the Bush years? Yes, but it had it's start under Clinton. My point is that as much credit as Clinton gets for the booming economy under his administration and as much crap as Bush gets for blowing it, it was really a sham to begin with. The bubble that just burst was expanding before Bush came along.

And, my dislike of Obama has very little to do with him taking his wife on a few dates and a great deal to do with his broader vision for this nation. Having said that though, if it's fair for Bush haters to trash him for his lack of public speaking skills, I don't think it's any different for those who don't like Obama to comment on such things. Really, it's ok for those who dislike Bush to pick him apart but those who don't like Obama have to be quiet?

jcc64 replied:

Fair enough, Monica, a lot of what you say is true. A lot of the loosening of home financing stuff did happen during Clinton's admin, and that is PART, not all of the problem with the banking collapse we're dealing with now.
And as far as criticizing Obama, I'm no fan of people being told not to express political dissent. I certainly had PLENTY to say about Bush (as we all know )--I think everyone should question every move the president makes, but not personal ones like going on a date with his wife or silly things like the teleprompter thing. It's just, well, silly. We all have bigger fish to fry is my point.

Crystalina replied:
Oh no. I never meant anyone on this forum. I'm speaking of DH. Being married to your political polar opposite is interesting at times. And exhausting!!

coasterqueen replied:
Yeah, I couldn't imagine. It'd probably drive me nuts.

luvmykids replied:
I couldn't agree more, I just see it as going both ways since Bush has been ridiculed for things just as trivial. It's all a moot point by now, who did what, the bottom line is where we are now. So wow, now I've joined the "agree with Jeanne" club It's small, but it's a start

Crystalina replied: Oh!
So much to read and so little time!!! Ok, I didn't read all the posts but I just wanted to say the remark I made about Bush's public speaking problems was made because of the statement made about how the reason Obama was elected was because he was a good speaker. And like I said, give us more credit then that. *I* did not vote for Obama and that is only because I already knew he would win without that vote and in my political debates with DH I would not have to hear "you voted for him!". Now, if I thought he needed help during the election I would have TOTALLY voted.

This man has more on his app then just being a good speaker and it's a bit sad that people can't give him the credit he deserves as being our Pres. I'm so tired of hearing it was his speaking (because apparently his voters are a bunch of tards ) and it was because of his color or whatever else people tend to pull out of their butts. I'm not even sure why this thread is up (nothing against the OP just the thought in general) because people have already made up their minds about him. Sadly most of their minds were made up BEFORE he was elected and also (sadly) they are surrounded by people who think like them (due to where they live) and it's that mob mentality that kicks in. I'm not saying this about anyone here on the boards because of course I don't know the areas you live but IRL where I live ....Oy! Most think the opposite of me. Also, most can't even tell you why they don't like him other then...."I just don't!" or "Stimulas package!". Anyone under a rock knows about the stimulas package so they just grab for whatever they hear others say.
On the other hand though I also agree with the fact that he SHOULD NOT have been elected on the fact that he was a good speaker or half African American.

coasterqueen replied: I agree he shouldn't be criticized for going on lavish jet-setting dates with his wife IF and that's a big if he's not going to do the same about others. KWIM? Don't criticize AIG or Ford for doing things like that and then turn around and do it yourself, kwim? It's our tax dollars that flew him to New York for a play in the first place and then he says past leadership/big business wasted taxpayer money. Right? Again, it is trivial, but I do expect him to lead how he preaches to others not the "do what I say, not as I do" type of thing. Call me crazy if my logic is off, because it is at times and clouded often -- and again, this is a trivial matter to me, really.

luvmykids replied:
I didn't make the comment that that was why he got elected, but I did make the comment that he's a good speaker. I was TRYING to find something nice to say about a guy who I like on a personal level but very strongly disagree with on a political one. Sheesh, that'll teach me!

And, just for the record, I don't believe that is the only reason he was elected. I do however think it was a refreshing change and is what got many peoples attention People I know IRL who would never have voted for him on the simple principle he's a Democrat were very drawn in by his speaking. I don't claim they don't have enough intelligence to vote for him for other reasons, but had it NOT been for that fact, they would have missed the initial draw that led them to vote for him.

As far as not giving him the credit he deserves, well, quite simply, I haven't found a basis for giving him credit because my politics are quite the opposite of his. If he manages to do something credit worthy in my PERSONAL belief, I'll be happy to do so. As valid as his supporters are in cheering him on, his non supporters opinions are just as valid....just not in the eyes of those who like him But that doesn't make me any less intelligent than someone who likes or supports him, it just makes me someone with a different view

coasterqueen replied: And Crystal, you are right. I think geography has a lot to do with it, too. I come from an extremely democratic state but ONLY because of one very large city that is majority democrat. Now that's not to say that there aren't democrats throughout the rest of the state, but a majority of central and southern of our state is republican. So you'll hear more repub talk from my area than if you drove 3.5 hours north in our same state. I'm sure that's the case in a lot of states.

Crystalina replied:

I didn't really want to quote anyone but that is why I said what I said about his speaking.

As for any other part of my post I really did not have anyone on this board in mind (as I stated). I'm sorry if you thought I was speaking to or towards you.

luvmykids replied: I didn't think you were speaking towards me, just giving an opinion from the other side since you said most of the people you know don't like him for reasons that don't have much depth. And I knew Oaf made the additional comment so I was just clarifying why I made mine but can't speak for him.

Crystalina replied:
alright.

I don't really think anyone has to explain the way they think or defend what they say. (not saying your saying that).
I was just commenting on what I read.

And yes, most people that I surround myself with think the total opposite of me. I wouldn't trade them in though but sometimes I'd like to grab the duct tape!

jcc64 replied:

True that, Karen. New York is, believe it or not, wildly conservative in many upstate areas, but I'm sure people in other parts of the country think we're all a bunch of Prius driving, Birkenstock wearing, tofu eating, Adam Lambert loving freaks.

And about Obama's date--I'm sure both he and Michelle would love nothing more than to anonymously jump in their own car and cruise down to NYC for a romantic night on the town w/o the scrutiny and the eyes of the world upon them. Other than the Secret Service detail and Airforce One, which are non-negotiable items from what I understand, their date was no more extraordinary or lavish than what dh and I do once or twice a year. What is so out of control about a play and a dinner out???? Just because he's the prez doesn't mean he should be confined to microwave popcorn and Netflix rentals for the next 4 yrs, does it?? I don't recall GWB and Laura hoppin' the Greyhound down to Crawford every one of the numerous times he needed a getaway from Washington life. I mean, they are still people entitled to private lives to the extent that it's possible, aren't they?? The auto industry execs flew on private jets to beg for public funds before Congress while claiming to be broke. It's apples and oranges, no?

coasterqueen replied:
Jeanne,

I do have opinions that may not be fair of those in the NYC area. Reason why? Because a cousin of ours went to NY sane and conservative and came back all weird and democrat. And it wasn't just that he had democratic views now....his views were just far out there from who we knew he was before he left. I know, not fair to group many into his category, but he's the only IRL person I know from there.

As far as the date thing.....you jet set off to another state for dinner and a play? And I know that they need time to themselves, everyone does, but I just think you should practice what you preach. He is going to put coal companies out of business with his emissions restrictions, etc and put a lot of hard working honest people out of jobs because they are polluting the air, etc and then he goes off on a jet for a date? I dunno. And I don't deny that past presidents have done the same, like Bush, but he didn't preach about things like this.

jcc64 replied:

I guess I don't have to.....I live here.
About NY making people weird--it's such an intense place that I don't think any non-Native could live there for an extended period of time and remain unchanged. For me, after only living there for a relatively short period of time, I became INTENSELY impatient about slow service. Like everyone else there, I came to expect a sandwich to be made in less than a minute, and I have no patience for retail people who hold casual conversations when I'm standing there waiting to place a lunch order, and I have no problem showing it. It's not a feature of my personality that I'm proud of, but it's most definitely a residual of living in the city. So when you bottle up all that hyper energy on one very small little island, of course it's going to create a crazy kind of culture. Still, to me it's the benchmark by which I measure all of the other cities I've been to, and nothing EVER comes close for me.
NYC, with all of its faults, still ROCKS, imo.

Danalana replied: I have visited NYC 4 times, and I love it also. I love the culture...all the different nationalities. I can't see myself changing too much, though, even if I lived there. I hate when people are in line and are visibly impatient because they had to wait 5 minutes. When that happens to a cashier, i always try to compliment her or be extra nice because I can imagine how that makes them feel. LOL, I tend to be very empathetic. I don't think it would change, simply because I have always been that way. All in all, though, I do love the city. I was in Brooklyn, as far as where I stayed (with friends), and that was very nice. The city is so much fun, though

coasterqueen replied: Oh yeah, I loved the city when we went to visit. Even though we went there for the millenium and it was crazy/intense but it was a blast!!!