Spinf off from a thread in Parenting News - Metal Detectors in School? Whaddya think

My2Beauties wrote: Ok, I mentioned my stance on this in the other thread but I'll repeat it. I feel that nowadays we do need to have metal detectors in school so that kids cannot bring guns/weapons into school, even elementary schools. I would go to the end of the world and back to ensure my child is safe from harm at school, some place that should be safe in the first place, but doesn't seem that way here lately. The thread is:

http://forums.parentingclub.com/index.php?showtopic=76728

Thoughts? Opinions?

mammag replied: I could see it in schools where they have a high number of gun violations in the school. I think it wouldn't be cost effective for all schools to have them. It is certainly not an end all cure. The school shooting in Red Lake Minn in 2005 is an example. The kid shot the security guard (unarmed of course because they don't want the guards to actually be armed) and went right through killing 10 people in all. There were two unarmed guards there. The female guard escaped down the hall. If only she had been armed she could have at least shot him after he pulled the gun on her partner, preventing some of the deaths.

They need to really crack down on bullying for one thing. They also need to severely punish kids who are caught with weapons. It should go beyond expulsion from school. Especially if a student is caught with a gun. They should be going to jail. I definitely think if they are going to have security guards in a school they should be armed. I also feel teachers should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon if they are licensed to and wish to do so.

The problem is, if a person is intent on killing, no law or rule is going to stop them. The only sure thing to stop a person with a gun who is intending to kill is a quicker shot. Most shootings are over before the police have a chance to get there. Even when they do get there they have to wait and plan their action, they will not just go charging into the school endangering their own lives.

I completely agree with you that it is scary now sending your kids out there into the world.

lisar replied: I think it would be a great idea. Some schools already have them, but I think ALL of them need them. It would make alot of us parents feel better.

DillsMommy replied: I agree. I am all for anything that is going to keep my kids safe. If that means putting metal detectors in school--so be it. However I do think it's sad that the world has come to this.

stella6979 replied: I'm kind of on the fence with this one as I totally agree that if someone is intent on killing, they will find a way....with or without metal detectors. Not too mention, guns and knives aren't the only weapons out there. Pretty much anything can be used as a weapon. I just read a story about a 13 year old boy who was killed after being stabbed repeatedly with a pen.

MommyToAshley replied:
I agree. I think it is a misconception that these things only happen in certain neighborhoods. I woudln't be opposed to having metal detectors in all schools, its not just those with high gun offenses that need them. It only takes a kid with a grudge taking a gun to school one time. There's really no negatives to having metal detectors, other than the cost. But, I'd pay more in taxes to ensure my daughters safety. It might not be the answer to the entire problem, but I'll take any added security and it certainly wouldn't hurt anything. I just feel sad that we even have to think of having metal detectors in schools.

my2monkeyboys replied: The majority of all mass shootings take place in no-weapons areas, such as various schools, post offices, companies with a no-carry policy, etc. The places where people are allowed to carry/conceal weapons are almost unheard of as locations of these atrocious happenings. There is something a bit intimidating knowing that if you bring a weapon there is a high possibility of someone else there ready to take you out. It tends to make them think twice.
That's why I think metal detectors should absolutely be in every school, but I also think that security guards should be armed as well as allowing any teachers with a license to carry. The penalties for being caught with a weapon should be much stiffer and enforced with no exceptions. (Well, except for the 1st grader with a pair of nail clippers....)
I, too, think our world has reached a sad, sad point.

holley79 replied: In our area it wouldn't be cost effective. We *knock on wood* haven't been having weapons offenses in our schools.

boyohboyohboy replied: I absolutly agree and would pay for more for it and security guards.

Boo&BugsMom replied: We have schools in the inner city of Milwaukee that already have detectors and guards. TBH, there is still a lOT of violence and kids getting in with weapons even with the security.

my2monkeyboys replied: You know, that's a good point -- I think it would be best if we actually had a report that showed how the violence did/did not decline after installing them and security guards. Sometimes we automatically think that throwing money at something will solve it, when clearly that is not the case in most instances.
Maybe tougher penalties and the such would be more helpful??

TANNER'S MOM replied: Well the town of one of the first school shootings happened in Jonesboro Arkansas, and that is not that far from me. It is a small town by most standards. Quiet. You would never think you had to worry about your children. A school w/ a graduating class of 200 maybe!

My nieces and newphews go to a school where there was a shooting but no death of other students accured. The kid came to school w/ the gun but told to many kids he was going to do it. When the cops got there the kid fired on them and not another student. The kid who did that is no longer alive. That is a very small school. That school has a senior graduating class of less than 100.

You have no idea who might carry a gun. No one does. Yes you expect it from the higher crime areas. But it's when you don't expect it that you have trouble. I don't want to risk it.

I wouldn't mind metal detectors. I wouldn't mind trained professionals with weapons in the school. I don't want someone who can just carry a concealed weapon to be able to have a gun. I want trained professionals. Only for the reason that you never know when someone might have a bad day. And I guess if someone wanted to disarm someone w/a gun and shoot it, they would think twice about doing it to a trained officer. Now if Miss Suzie had a gun and I was a big football player I might think I could take it away from her and out strength her if one day a some one makes me too mad in the lunch room and I snap.

I will say that at my niece and newphews school they took a few precautions other than metal detectors that I like. For one the kids don't carry backpacks at all. The girls are allowed to carry small purses but only if they can be looked in by another female at the door. They have 2 sets of books, one for class and one for school. That way they don't need to use a locker or a back pack. All they need is pencil and paper and a binder. You can't pick your child up w/ a Parent ID. You can't go in the school w/ out a Parent ID. If you are authorized to pick up a child that isn't yours you must have their Parent ID, and the parent must fax or hand write a letter and you must provide a picture ID stating your name. When you pick up your children they aren't allowed to wait outside. They wait in the lunch room until you pull up show your Parent Id. Then they walk in the school and bring your child out. They have about 5 teachers working the pick up line and it is a small school so the wait isn't so bad. They say the children are safer in the building. They have more bus routes closer to the school. Children use to be able to walk to and from school but now if they are more than so many blocks from the school they are bussed. The theory is that it doesn't cost anymore to drive a block than a mile and then the children are supervised.

To me all these steps are small steps that any school could take even w/a small budget. I know that I have walked into my children's school before w/ out ever being asked who I was. I have picked other peoples children up w/ out a note. Every year they send home a letter talking about school safety policy etc. But to be honest it isnt' followed! And is often not inforced until something bad happens.

mammag replied:
This bothers me. First of all, the idea that someone who has gone through ccw classes, passed a background check, and went through everything to get their ccw permit would "have a bad day" and decide to start shooting all the students is nonsense. It would be just as possible for these "trained professionals" to have a bad day and snap. They are human like the rest of us. I met a police officer (off duty) who was going on and on (a young police officer) about crazy things he does with his police car (speeding to extremes just because he can, etc.). And yet, because I am a non-professional concealed carrying mom I would be more likely to have a bad day and pull out my gun?? The idea that they would think twice about shooting a trained officer.... they would in fact want to take them out first. They will be the known obstacle....Miss Suzie will not be a suspected threat.

2nd the idea of concealed carry is just that....concealed. You are not going to go around saying "okay students, I am now carrying a gun on my left hip, so don't get out of line". The only time someone should know you have a gun on you is if you are pulling it out to defend and intend to use it. And if I were Miss Suzie and Mr. football player decides to attack me....well Mr. football player would be playing football no longer.

The idea is that if Mr. Football player is going class to class shooting students, I would like the teacher in my children's class to take him out the moment he enters their classsroom.

The process that the school you mentioned is following is a great idea. I like the idea of no big bags and would also say no overly baggy clothing as well. First of all guys wearing the baggy pants showing the underwear makes me sick, but it would make it much easier for a student to conceal a weapon.

If metal detectors were a couple thousand I would say fine put them in all schools but to put it in a whole district you're talking in the millions...(3.3mil in cleveland, 4.5 in Memphis, etc.) First the cost of the equipment and you can't just put them at one door. It would have to be at everydoor or you will just have one student open a back, locked door for the gunman. Then you have to have a guard at each or it is absolutely pointless so you have to pay their salary.

Yes I realize that shootings aren't just happening in high crime areas. But they are not happening in most schools. But if you are in a school that is finding weapons in students lockers on a regular basis then it may be time to take that measure. But it better be done right or it's going to be a waste of money. Those guards better be armed. What is really insane to me is having unarmed guards. Just because they are wearing the outfit they are able to protect against an armed gunman?

Okay, off my soapbox for now.