That's it, I'm going to do it - no cry sleep solution

Schnoogly wrote: I'm going to implement the plan Whole Hog. I'm gung-ho and ready for some weeks of really bad sleeping in the hopes it will get better. He wakes up (by flipping over and crawling away in his sleep) about 6-8x per night and I just can't take it anymore. I am so understanding of kitkat mom's situation...I feel like a PRISONER of WAR who is being tortured by sleep deprivation.

It starts tonight--I printed out my log sheets. I'll let you know how it goes!!

MommyToAshley replied: I have my fingers crossed for you. GOOD LUCK!

Sending Iain some ~~~~~sleepy baby vibes!~~~~~~

Mommieto2Girls replied: Good luck, I hope it works out for you. Then can you explain to me what you mean.... lol I'm sorry but I am clueless to what you are talking about... Must be mommy-brain.

supermom replied: Poor Steph - keep us posted and let us know how it goes - hugs to you all!!

DansMom replied:
I'm getting ready to implement the whole plan too. I feel like I'm in a coma all day. Last night he was up 6 times, only the last of which involved true hunger. It is that week or so of increased difficulty that makes me put it off. Let us know how it goes! A success story might motivate the rest of us to go whole hog!

amynicole21 replied: Just re-read my copy this weekend and am starting slowly... We're working on taking out her paci before she's fully asleep and using our bedtime cues like saying "Night Night." Keep us posted, I need some inspiration!

ediep replied: thats great! I read that book and I really enjoyed it. Jason is a pretty good sleeper so I didn't hve to implement it completely, but I did use some pointers from that book. I wish you luck!! You definately deserve a nights sleep!

coasterqueen replied: Wow, I need your *ummphh*! LOL! I need to do this reallllllly bad, but just am too lazy to do it. Let me know how it goes, maybe it can be an inspiration to me and get me up off my duff and do it.

Kirstenmumof3 replied: I wish you lots of luck. Claudia has started waking up in the middle of the night as well. It is driving me nuts, like Iain she crawls and wakes up. So far I have just let her cry (not for very long, I don't even think it's a minute) and then if she doesn't stop I go and get her. But I need some sleep!

Kaitlin'smom replied: lost of luck to you. Kepp us posted. I hope it all goes well for you.

I know you know this but rutine is soooo important. I rediscoverd that Saturday night! I guess she is just used to mommy putting her to bed.

mckayleesmom replied: I must have it really good,,,mckaylee sleeps 12 hours or more every night..this past weeks she has been waking up once a night. She either whines and goes back to sleep or I give her 2oz of food and she goes back to sleep...she doesn't take the greatest naps, so thats probably why she sleeps so long....If dh is late coming home and she is already in bed,,she hears him and wakes back up to come visit for an hour or so and then back to bed.....I don't know how you ladies do it...Im afraid to have another one cause it might not be so good,,kwim? Anyways,,good luck to you guys...hope everything works out.

Schnoogly replied: OK last night we started our routine. Dinner around 5:30, then playing with dad in a dim room as the sun went down. Then around 6:30-7 nursing and relaxing. It wasn't a bath day (every other day) or else we would have done that. Then he took a 6oz bottle and rested with dad on the chair. Then I took him up to our bed, laid him down next to me and patted and said "sleepytime" our keyword. He kept lifting his head up and crashing it into the bed, poor guy--he was so tired but couldn't get to sleep. Finally I nursed again for a few minutes and then picked him up and he fell asleep immediately. I then laid him right back down (instead of holding him for a while like we usually do) and he stayed asleep! This doesn't usually happen.

He slept from 7:45-11:45 (pretty darn good, woke once around 9 but it was my fault for putting a blanket on his legs--he hates that!) then up at 1:45, 4:45, and 5:50 for the day. So all in all, a better night than most. I did have to nurse him down most times, but at 1:45 DH "patted" him back to sleep, which also doesn't usually work.

The problem is that he has two sleep associations that we need to change: #1, his favorite, is being carried around. #2 is nursing, which will do if he isn't being carried but he actually prefers to be carried. He hasn't fallen asleep in the hammock for a really long time but needs to be carried around first.

How do we break both associations? See, the pantley pull off tends to work, but then he wants to be carried. My goal is to get him to fall asleep without being carried. I think this will be our breakthrough. So every night we are going to do our routine then go up to bed and lie down to sleep, and at least give it a try. Maybe sooner or later he will be able to fall asleep without being carried.

~CrazieMama~ replied: Wow, I don't know what to say. Brianna only woke up around 1a.m. or 2a.m. everynight and then at 5 - 5:30 a.m. My son on the other hand, was a night baby. He slept more during the day than at night. Finally I got tired of it and made him CIO. I hated it, but it took one night. I wish I had more help to offer you.

Mommieto2Girls replied: I just can't imagine what your going through. Maddie has never done anything like that, I refused to carry her around when she was little in fear that she would want that every day. So I just never did it. I wish I could help you, her are lots of hugs and I hope it all works out for you. <<<<hugs>>>>

amynicole21 replied:
I think that Iain & Sophia get together to plan ways to drive their mommies crazy!! Sophia also starts crawling as soon as she is even the slightest bit awake. She also has to be held and/or nursed to sleep. I was reading in NCSS that one way to trick them is to kind of hold them when they are laying down in the crib. So you lean over them and put your arms around them from the top... then you do that for shorter and shorter periods of time. I've tried this with little success, but I haven't really been good at doing it routinely... Best of luck to you with this!

Kaitlin'smom replied:
HI and lots of hugs to you first.

I am also dealing with the association thing with nursing. I used to just nurse her back to sleep when ever she would wake up. It seemed to be the easiest way to get her back to sleep. Well over the last month I decided I could not keep doing this other wise I could never get DH to get up and het her back to sleep. Now she does not always wake up at night, she really is a pretty good sleeper, but we do have the bad nights, and now I have to judge what I am gonna try to do to get her back to sleep. This is what I do, if she wakes up before midnight, we try just patting her in crib if that does not work I rock her, until she is about asleep then back into her crib, but now I will not feed her. I dont believe after all she has before bed she is hungry. Now if she wakes up after 1a then I will feed her right now, but eventually that will also stop. In general she usually will wake up around 3a, or not until 6-6:30a.

I send you lots of sleepy vibs and hugs to make it through this easily and fast.

Schnoogly replied: Yes, Amy, I've tried that too! He is a smart little devil, he doesn't buy it for a second! I honestly think that we are trying this at the right time--he is starting to sleep in the crib at daycare (we're playing that one by ear since I can't find anyone to babysit & he is still there for the time being. he slept 45 min in the crib on friday!!!) and since he is more active he goes to sleep easier.

I mean, we never could have done this when he needed a couple of hours of bouncing and carrying to get to sleep. Come on! Now he will even fall asleep in the chair with DH, as long as he is being held! So I think the time is ripe.

I think there is a difference between babies who co-sleep and those who don't--of course co-sleepers CAN sleep 10 hours a night straight but they tend not to do this more than the ones who sleep in cribs.

We really had no choice--we had to keep him calm for the first many months, which meant NO crying and holding and sleeping right next to him to keep him breathing well. Did that set us up for our current suffering? Maybe, but again, no choice. Also, I have mostly liked co-sleeping. It's getting a little claustrophobic lately because there just isn't enough room in the bed for all 3 of us, but we're bringing the spare futon mattress upstairs tonight to add space. I brought Iain's crib mattress up for him to sleep on but he won't--I end up sleeping on it sometimes! Ouch!!

I can't imagine what it is like to have a baby that only wakes up once, or who sleeps through the night! You all must be giddy on sleep!! You with your angel babies count yourselves LUCKY LUCKY LUCKY!!!

DansMom replied:
Your overnights sound exactly like mine. Daniel crawls instantly too, so I have to be on the ball. This morning he actually pulled on my nightgown angrily and kind of beat on my chest when I wasn't responding fast enough. I'm so tired. Cosleeping does have its downside, with more frequent overnight demands, but I am still happy overall with that choice. DH brought the crib into our bedroom and set it up next to the bed on my side. When Daniel's in there for naps he wakes up sooner---the mattress must be just a bit firmer. But I'm hoping he'll get used to it. Daniel associates nursing or bottle with sleep also---I haven't had the energy to try making new associations. Keep us posted on your progress!

CantWait replied:
HaHaHa you should be scared, very infact. Robbie was the easiest baby around. At 2 months he was sleeping through the night, having regular naps and going to bed at the perfect time. I had it too easy with him.
Anthony on the other hand, goes to bed at 10:00pm on a good day, most of the time it's around midnight and is up every 2 hours after that. Most of the time I have to nurse him in bed while I fall back asleep or he won't stay asleep when I put him back down. Right now I have both my kids and sometimes the dog sleeping in my bed with me LOL

supermom replied: I was very lucky with my first one too, he slept thru the night from about 2 weeks on, and it was a piece of cake.....however, child number 2, 3, and especially 4 have made up for that - too early to tell about #5!! LOL

No, seriously, Steph, I really don't know how you manage to do it. I really, really feel sorry for you, and I think of you each time I look down at my peacefully sleeping children, and I am so very grateful that even though we do have an occasional bad night, for the most part, we have some very good ones in there too .......

Schnoogly replied: Well I'll tell you how I do it--I'm completely non-functional in everyday life. You can probably tell from my posts that I'm a talker--can usually express myself very well. I'm a teacher so this comes in handy. But on Friday afternoon a student came in to my office and I literally could not form words I was so tired.

I am dizzy a lot of the time, probably from sleep deprivation.

And to be totally honest if someone had told me my future before we decided to get pg I might have thought twice about whether I was ready. But can you ever be ready for what we went (are going) though? I doubt it.

If I were a religious person I might think that we were "chosen" or something to have him, but I am more a believer in dumb luck. For whatever reason, we got him and I am doing my darndest to keep him happy and healthy. But the HN bit is literally the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with in my life. It strains every inch of patience I have (which isn't much, believe me).

coasterqueen replied: I must say Kylie has been what I considered a high needs baby from the time she was born. She always needed to be held and nursed to go to sleep. It wasn't til 8 months old that I could lay her down on a bed asleep and she would stay asleep! And then we had to put her down on her belly, which made things much better. She was comfortable sleeping that way. Dh and I didn't know what to do with ourselves. It was like we were learning to be us again. We were like "what, we have time to ourselves now, even if it's for an hour". LOL. We were so used to always having a baby in our arms at ALL TIMES, that this was new territory for us, lol.

Kylie has always woke up every 1.5 to 2 hours on the dot every night. She rarel misses that 2 hour mark by a minute. There was the occassion she went 5 hours, but that lasted 3 days and we've never seen that since, lol.

We struggled every night to get her to sleep, she fought it every step of the way, not going to bed til 11, midnight then up in the middle of the night to play and up for the day at 6. I went to work as a walking zombie thinking one day I was just going to drop dead on the job from exhaustion. Many times I fell asleep at my desk and a co-worker or boss woke me up

Co-sleeping made things a bit better, bot not great.

It wasn't until 11.75 months old that Kylie finally just all of a sudden started going to sleep at 8:00 p.m. It has been heaven this last month since she is going to bed at a normal time. I feel bad in some ways because I work and so I don't get to see her during the day and by the time I get home, we eat dinner, etc, etc, we don't get much time with her before she goes to sleep, but this is working for all of us.

She still gets up EVERY 2 hours thruout the night, hopefully some day this will change. Kylie still has to be nursed to sleep, though. I've found that before I only had to nurse her on one side to sleep, now I have to offer both sides before she'll fall asleep. LOL. If I try to put her to sleep it takes a good 1/2 hour to an hour before she'll fall asleep. If Dh puts her to sleep it takes him 15 minutes! UGH!

Since she started going to sleep at a regular time, we have a routine. Even if she doesn't look tired by 7:30 p.m. we start putting her pj's on, brush teeth, read a book, take a bath if it's bath night, etc. Then by 7:45/8 pm I take her into her room and nurse her.

I am praying that some day she will sleep longer than 2 hours at a time at night. LOL.

kit_kats_mom replied: How is it going? We started implementing *STRICTLY* a bedtime routine and K has been going to bed at 8:30 everynight for the last week. It has been bliss! Sometimes she doesn't fall asleep before 9:30 but she doesn't leave the room and she is rocked to sleep by DH. We eat dinner, bathe her, read a few books, I nurse her for 20 minutes then DH takes her and either rocks her or lays with her until she is out. This sometimes takes awhile but he has some books on mp3 that he listens too so he doesn't get board out of his mind. She has been waking up every hour or so but I just pop in, pat her and whisper our sleep cue "shhhhh, nighty night". If that doesn't work, I'll nurse her for a few minutes until she is back out then I can leave her again. We will work on the nighttime nursing & getting her out of our bed later. I think that we have accomplished so much just by getting her to bed before 11pm and being able to have some personal time to spend by myself or with my DH. Baby steps.... I'm really happy that we haven't had to resort to CIO and that DH has taken on some more of the responsibility.

MomToJade&Jordan replied: That's great Cary I am glad that you have been able to spend some alone time with your DH. I think you're going about it the right way too. There will be time to get her in her own bed later. I had to do something like that to get Jade to take naps. She would nurse and then fall asleep and then I couldn't move. She wouldn't really get the nap she needed and then would remain cranky. So I started by going upstairs to my bed and nursed her to naps up there. Now she falls asleep on the couch watching cartoons and I can just pick her up and put her in bed. Good luck hun. I have been thinking about you. You are a great mom.

Schnoogly replied: Well so far we've adjusted our routine to get Iain to go to sleep upstairs in our room instead of in the family room where he is used to playing, then being held by DH at the computer for an hour or so, then up to bed (wouldn't stay asleep if we laid him down right away, had to wait a while, and even then needs nursing).

He has been pretty good about his bedtime of 8pm since he was about 4-5 months old. Sometimes he will go to bed as late as 9:30 but usually by 8:30 he's asleep.

We are starting with the very strict bedtime rituals and bedtime and trying to get him as sleepy as possible the normal ways (bouncing, walking, nursing) but not quite asleep and then lying down with him to do the shhhh "sleepytime" keywords so he can fall asleep in bed lying down, not nursing and not being carried. So far it has worked once without my needing to nurse or pick him up, but it's only been 3 days. of course, I've gone to bed with him all three days except tonight DH is trying his hand at it. He's up there right now.

We might have to skip tonight though since he was teething so bad all day he didn't nap at all at daycare. We gave him tylenol because his tooth has just barely broken through and he is gnawing like crazy.

mckayleesmom replied: Do you guys have a Johnny Jumper for him? I usually tire mckaylee out when I put her in that thing.

Schnoogly replied: The thing about high needs babies is that tiring them out only makes it worse--they get overtired and super cranky and wired and won't go to sleep. We do have one of those but he doesn't really like it. I only use it sometimes when I take a shower and want him in one place in the bathroom, but he only lasts about 5 minutes in it.

He does go to sleep a little easier now that he's more active and crawling and standing, but it also might be because he's older. It doesn't usually take 2 hours anymore.

Maya's Mama replied: This whole topic has inspired me. I haven't read about the no cry sleep solution yet, but I have been trying to get Maya into a routine at bedtime. We eat a little rice cereal, have a bath if it's bath night, change into pj's, sing a few songs, and then nurse her to sleep. We're trying to break her of having to suck something--be it nursing, bottle, or pacifier when she wakes up at night (every 2-3 hours) , but haven't had much success with that---if we let her get too upset when she wakes up then we never get her back to sleep again, she's up for the count. My DH used to take her into the living room and try to tire her out if she woke up and wouldn't go back to sleep, but this only made her want to do this every night--so now we try to make it really boring for her to want to be up at night, no lights, no fun, just quiet voices and nursing if she needs it. The night time routine has really helped her not wake up for long periods at night like she used to. So far, so good. But she does seem to need more milk at night than in the daytime. I think that the cosleep method has helped a lot with keeping her asleep longer. I barely notice when I breastfeed her at night, I can somehow remain half asleep---she also falls asleep if DH puts his arm around her and holds her close. They sleep better when I leave for work in the morning--I think she realizes I'm not readily available for nursing so she just goes back to sleep. This is the only time that she will sleep a 4-5 hour stretch. We had started so many bad habits with her getting up at 2am for playtime with daddy, binky or nursing to sleep, no routine, bed time different every night etc... I thought we'd never be able to hold to a routine, but Maya seemed to take right to it. I think she appreciates knowing what will happen next--just like her father already!!