UPDATE ON CALEB - principle

boyohboyohboy wrote: Finally the principle called me and he said he was calling me from calebs first grade teachers home room and that she was there if I wanted to speak to her. I said no that I wanted to speak to him. I asked him if he had a chance to talk to her and find out what type of student he was and what has been going on the last three weeks, and also what happened today. he said no.
LIKE I AM SO SURE.
so I told him all of it, and said we felt that he was being unfairly targeted now by a teacher that felt he could do no right, and that this suspension was absolutely uncalled for. we also felt she was not communicating with us at all and her refusal to meet us.
he surprised me and said he agreed that she should have been communicating with us more and suggested she call us once a week for an update report and he felt that not only the things needing improvement would need to be discussed but she should have also been mentioning the good things he does.
WHICH SHE NEVER DOES.
he said that it was a shame that now a days teacher had to jump to such conclusions that things like this are said and now teachers have to take them seriously however he didnt feel either that caleb deserved such harsh treatment and I also explained that caleb has no idea what they are refering to as to how bad this is..
so he asked me to wait a few more weeks to see if things improved before we talk about moving him. apparently i need his APPROVAL first??????
so then we were ok with it, but then the teacher called me to set up a time schedule to talk and she started in on caleb..she said he does great acedemically, but he is impulsive. I said can you be more specific on what that means, and she said well for example, today someone in the caf. took his lunch money and ran off, so he started to chase her in the lunch room, and she said she grabbed his arm and said caleb i wont punish you this time but what do you think would have been a smarter choice then running around the room, and he said telling a teacher and she said yes..its things like this ....i said, well to me thats just being young, not impulsive..who wouldnt chase the person who just stole their money..???
so she says, well another example is i asked the kids to get out their crayons, and all 23 other kids get them out, but who is the only one who doesnt..caleb..and she said it in such a sarcastic tone...i said to me you are singleing him out and making it seem like no matter what he does you are going to lable him the bad kid.
and she said no, that she treats all the kids the same..but every time she talked it was like she said calebs name in this sing songy way...

my husband thinks caleb needs to learn to deal with this, that he cant always just leave a situation when it gets bad..but i am concerned about his self esteem if this lady is allowed to brow beat him daily for crap..and she even made comments that his desk is messy..what 6 yr old boy has a clean desk?

so again, i am so open to hearing what you really think here..
do we move him or let this go three more weeks?
I didnt hear any positive reinforcement for good behavior at all on her part...
i just want to take him and run and cry..i made sure he was totally hugged tonight. and we talked about not using certain words in school..and why, how it makes others think..
and also about how now that he has chosen to make so many wrong decisions she is just assuming he is always making the wrong ones and how he has to work hard to show her how he is really a great kid to know..
he was so good about it..he just asked if we were mad, and i said no. but that it wasnt something i ever wanted to hear again. and he said me either...

A&A'smommy replied: Bless his heart I think honestly that he was JUST being a kid, and it seems like this teacher is just being hateful but that is just my opinion!

TANNER'S MOM replied: Well to be honest she is lucky she doesn't have my child. If someone stole Tanner's lunch money and he was chasing them and CAUGHT them I would think he might just throw down! And I don't know that I would get on to him. Now that being a girl it would be different, but if it was a boy I wouldn't say a darn thing.

I mean the girl stealing money should have been the corpal offense in my opionion!

Now, Tanner's teacher last year I couldn't stand. I wish I could've changed him.

If you feel that it won't get better and you don't talk well w/ each other then I would move him. Education is #1. But if kids start feeling picked on, then they hate school! If you look at high school drop outs they will say it's b/c they felt picked on and no one understood them. And alot of times they can name one teacher who did it. I know I can! So, I say do what you can to make his school life enjoyable and manageable!

julesmom replied: Can you request that this principle be in the room during the meeting with the teacher?
The principle sounds cool, but this teacher is a witch.

Nina J replied: What did the teacher do about the girl who stole the lunch money? She shouldn't have done it in the first place.

I hope things work out

I don't know what I would do. I would probably be more tempted to change him to a new school. Are your youngest boys going to go to the same school? It seems like this teacher has it in for Caleb. I wonder if she would treat your youngest boys the same should she ever teach them.

boyohboyohboy replied:
I am never going to give her a chance to mis treat my other two kids.
we have planned to move as soon as our lease is up, which isnt for two yrs..so for now we are trying to get caleb out of the school.
I am checking into the two private christian schools here, but havent heard back yet on tuition.
and also seeing how to bug the principle enough to let him out..

gr33n3y3z replied: I agree the principle needs to be at that meeting and they will do it

luvmykids replied: If the principal won't do it, go to the school board.

lovemy2 replied: I am so sorry you are dealing with all this Stacy - its so sad that we send our kids to school for so much of their lives and we have to worry and feel as if the people we are entrusting them to really aren't that nice.

I agree with your DH in terms of sometimes having to ride it out and learn how to deal - that that has a very valuable place in how we teach our kids as they grow HOWEVER - in this case I would really fear that all of this focus on Caleb's behavior whether it be real or just the teacher really labeling him, etc. IS eventually going to affect his academics. She said he does great academically - well then why on earth does she spend so much time focusing on OTHER things - maybe more praise to Caleb on how well he does do woudl go a long way - I also know that kids do get bored when they are not challenged and is a classic cause of behavior problems - Olivia suffers from that - do I think she is some kind of genius - no but I do think there are areas she excels at - reading and writing being two of them - she is done quicker than others and then wants to chit chat - but as I have worked with her Kindy teacher and now her first grade teacher we have really found that 1) she is NOT a behavior problem 2) she is not ADD or ADHD 3) that she wants to impress and likes the attention she gets for a job well done....therefore extra challenge to her goes a long way....

I don't think I would wait at this point - I would push for a change but try to do some homework as to what his other options are - how many other teachers are there - the same for the private schools - is there a way you can speak to other mom's of kids in the class past or present of these other teachers - can you join the PTA so you can get a more inside view of what goes on? Sometimes making yourself known in the school goes a long way..........................just be careful because the grass may not be greener on the other side and that would be a disaster -

Make sure you respectfully let this teacher know you mean business...

As a side note too many private schools offer help for people who maybe can't afford the tuition all on their own - inquire about it....

Many hugs to you and Caleb - hang in there -

Boo&BugsMom replied: If she is going to make a big deal out of the fact that he didn't get his crayons out right away, then she really needs to GET A GRIP! And his chasing the kid who stole his money...Tanner would have done the same thing! To me, that is standing up for yourself and we tell Tanner about sticking up for himself and not allowing himself to get stepped all over. I probably would have still pulled him aside and told him to tell a teacher if it happens again, but I wouldn't have made a big deal about it like she is.

I am not liking this teacher AT ALL! She needs a swift kick in the pants.

I would still move him. No matter what, this teacher will not change her ways, she is too set in them. He is now her target and it wont stop, IMO. There are just some teachers that feel the need to always label at least one child in their class like that and focus on their negatives all the time.

Sadly, this teacher will probably still keep on teaching and nothing will probably happen with her. That is why I'd still move him. I also think, being in a Christian school would help him as well. If he gets in trouble there, they can redirect his behavior and use reasons why God wouldn't like it...unlike in a public school where that would be unheard of. After everything you have shared with me, overall, I think moving him would be the best alternative. It seems the influences at this school are very overwhelming.

TheOaf66 replied:
I probably would have told him to chase them down and get his lunch money and take theirs to so they learn not to mess with him

lisar replied: I say its up to you. If you wanna leave him there for another 3 weeks and see if things get better then so be it. But if you dont then demand he be changed NOW. Calling the school board does alot. My aunt actually got the principal fired from an elementary school because of things like that.

If it were my kid, I would have been all up in the teachers face. Thats just me though I am a confrontational person. If it were Lexi I would have her room moved.
Mainly cause now the teacher "is" going to single him out. If she wasnt before she is now.

jem0622 replied: School is such an adjustment. Both of my boys have had their own ways of adjusting. And each year is different.

I understand that you are upset, I truly do. But, at the same time, we have to allow them to learn key things like making good choices, using listening ears, and showing respect to peers and teachers. We spend our time when they are younger being consistent and preparing them for all of this.

There are teachers who will be tough, but it isn't because they don't want your child to succeed, or that they are just plain meanies. They do it because they take their job in teaching our kids, along with guiding them in the right direction, very seriously. As they should.

Nathan has had teachers who were more strict, and teachers who were firm but softer on the outside. He had issues with making good choices. Heck, he just brought home an interim about being silly too much. Smart boy, but silly. He had issues like Caleb when he was younger. But, with age, he has gotten better.

I think if you feel you need to talk to the principal and the teacher, then do what you feel you must. But our kids need to obey rules/laws. To try, even in an unintentional way, to ask that they be excused from it just because of age will not fly. The teachers, especially of the younger ones, do understand that they are learning. Sometimes just one instance of a very bad choice moment with consequences is enough to set them straight.

Speaking of weapons, hurting others, killing, etc....that sends off every alarm you could possibly imagine. Even if they were acting out a character on a show, or whatever...the counselors and teachers are not always sure these days of when a child's behavior presents them as a risk...we can thank Columbine for that. Sad and very unfortunate, but true. You may perceive it as nothing harmful, but there are so many liabilities and worries now.

It's important that, unless it was just an unbelievable and abhorrent decision, we go into talks with teachers and administration by listening first. No one needs to yell and get defensive. I don't know about you...but when anyone ever yelled at me, I didn't listen. That included my parents when I was growing up. And teachers.

If he said what he did, then it was definitely not a good choice of words. And if it is written into student rules/laws (which they review at the start of every school year), then it is what it is. Even if he was joking. My boys have been reprimanded at home for language and I stress repeatedly that certain things are never ever said/done at school. And my oldest has witnessed friends who got into major trouble for not exercising good choices.

I agree with your husband that you should let it lie, but if you will not feel right until you have talked it through, then you are certainly entitled to have that talk. Just go into it calmly. There will be tougher situations and tougher people that our kids encounter in life.

As far as the money incident...he should go to a lunchroom helper to mediate/resolve the issue. If items in the classroom that are his property are taken, then he needs to talk to the teacher in that room to resolve it. Keeps the kids out of trouble they don't need.

HUGS

boyohboyohboy replied:
I cant help but say that I disagree with a lot of what you wrote.
It is not in the hand book that what caleb did was a punishable act..bringing a weapon to school or threatening someone is a punishable offense, however, he did neither one of those things.
I am defensive, and I have asked for meetings way before this got to this point..

and when a teacher says something like, " I asked the students to get out a paper and all 23 did, all 23 that is but CALEB, " Well that tells me she doesnt have the patience she needs when it comes to handling him.

he isnt a child that needs "handled" on a typical basis..frankly until he started this school we NEVER had behavior issues.
if you want to get respect out of a student you need to show respect to them. screaming at the top of your lungs for spilling milk is absolutely uncalled for.
bullying a child, by yelling their face and trying to scare them into submission is wrong.

so , yes, I would go into a meeting with a loud firm voice if I had to, to demand that my son be removed from an adult who is in my mind abusing my son.

regardless if the world has changed since we were younger and could mention things like guns and knifes or not, there is still a thing called common sense that has to be used. we certainly try to teach it to our kids, maybe its time to teach it to the teachers.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Sadly, many of them do NOT take their job seriously either, which results in situations such as this! Teaching a child to act appropriately is expected. Targeting a child and ruining their love of learning is clearly another. A child will not learn how to make good choices if the teacher isn't making good choices herself! Expecting a child to be perfect is not realistic. Also, punishing or calling a child out for meaningless stupid things is uncalled for. This goes beyond obeying school rules. And obeying or not, it doesn't excuse the teacher's behavior either! A GOOD teacher will take the time with the student and be rational in their thinking. A GOOD teacher will get down to a child's level and understand them. A GOOD teacher will not target a child and praise them for their accompishments. A GOOD teacher will not humiliate a child in front of others. A GOOD teacher will treat each child with respect!!! Children are not cookie cutters, each one is different and it's the teachers JOB to deal with each child individually in the way that best suites them. Obviously, her "teaching" is not effective (I use that term loosely), or else this situation would be getting better.

lovemy2 replied:
I have to say everything you said about how we raise our kids and how they need to learn rules, respect, etc. I agree with but I TOTALLY DO NOT AGREE WITH the part where you think the teachers are always right and the child is always wrong - there are teachers who down right stink - I have had them and I am sure everyone on this board has - that is where tenure is not such a good thing - my Mom worked in the school system for 32 years and believe me she saw more than her fair share of bad teachers. I think most of your post is way out of line IMO - I am not sure if you have been reading the rest of Stacy's posts about this situation but you might want to....

cameragirl21 replied: I can see where nowadays, a student claiming to have a weapon would be alarming but in first grade, there is no reason the teacher would not have control enough over the student to determine if he actually does have a weapon or not. If he were in 8th grade and bigger than the teacher, then ok, maybe resort to harsher measures but the way I see it, if he says he has a weapon, the teacher should check to see if it's true and if she determines it isn't then it's her job to explain to the student why that kind of talk is inappropriate and let him off with a warning. If he keeps doing it over and over despite the warnings then maybe think of a harsher punishment but to suspend a kid over child's play is ludicrous imo and just a sign of a burned out teacher who should perhaps consider a different career path. JMO.

luvmykids replied:
I have to agree with that. When Colt got in trouble, I wasn't trying to get him out of it, just make it appropriate according to the schools OWN rules. The teacher even admitted that she shouldn't have written him up the way she did, and she is the one who took it to the principal and had it changed.

Even if Caleb was a "difficult" child (which I am not saying he is), it is STILL her job to figure out how to work with him, not cause more problems.

jem0622 replied: Unfortunately, you have stated that I said something that I did not. I did not say the teachers are always right and the students are wrong.

I have gotten upset when my son has been called out...and trust me, I have experienced it...but if the behavior was wrong, or he did not follow the rules, then I do not defend him. He has to learn without me at times.

cameragirl21 replied: I don't think there's any need to jump all over Julie for stating her opinion, nor do I think stating her opinion is out of line, people come here to ask for opinions and opinions they get, whether they like them or not. Remember that what is written can be taken out of context or can be misunderstood, God knows I have a great deal of personal experience with that here.
At any rate, this is clearly a very sensitive subject for Stacy as it should be because her child is being treated unfairly by his teacher and that would be cause for alarm for any parent. Julie offered her opinion as she has the right to do and anyone here has the right to disagree with her and say so, there is no need to get nasty about it. JMO.

boyohboyohboy replied: I think that the reason Julie is taking the stance she is, is because she must not be aware of what really happened....

just for clarification....
caleb was standing at the pencil sharpener, with the teacher watching and listening to the ENTIRE SITUATION...caleb held up a PENCIL and said "look I have a knife." and that was the end of what he said, because the teacher right away jumped him with his back against the wall yelling that it was not tolerated, and then proceeded to take him to a phone located in the room full of 23 other kids and humilate him telling him how bad he was for saying it and making him call me.started telling me and him that he was going to be suspended, and he didnt even know what theat meants.. he had no idea what he said was wrong or why it was wrong..or why everyone was so upset..
as I am sure MOST of the other kids in the class did not either.

my point has been how wrongly he has been treated, and how wrong it would be for any child to be treated this way by a TEACHER...I mean the title itself seems totally wrong for this woman..she isnt teaching my son anything but how to scream be disrespectful, and that school is not a friendly place.
since being in her class my straight A student has gone to a C and D. he is so upset.
and as wrong as most of you might think this is, we instructed him to be as respectful as he can, on his best behavior, following their rules, however he was also instructed that if at any moment he feels scared, or anyone lays a hand on him that he feels is wrong, or he just feels that he is being yelled at for something he didnt do, he is to go to the nurse and call us, and we will come get him.
I wont tolerate him being scared and bullied by anyone anymore.
we have to follow their rules for three more weeks, to get considered for a transfer, but that is definately my intention. my most important goal right now is not for him to lose his self esteem, or to lose the love he has for school. I also dont want him to believe the lies she is telling him about himself...I dont believe that any child is bad..they might make some bed decisions that result in bad behavior but they are not bad themselves...
this teacher is a bad teacher..as a person she isnt my cup of tea..someone else might find her just fine...

I really do appreciate you all being there for me yesterday when I needed some advice, raising kids is so hard..and this was such a hard subject for me..so thank you..

cameragirl21 replied:
my goodness, Stacy, I didn't realize that she threw him against the wall and yelled at him in front of the class, what a jerk. Honestly, I think that teacher should be punished in some way, even if it is just a slap on the wrist, her behavior and reaction to this is inappropriate imo. I think you should complain to the principal and quite possibly the school board beyond just the immediate need of removing him from her class because God knows what may happen if she ever really gets a difficult kid in her class, she is not cut out to deal with kids if that is her reaction imo.

boyohboyohboy replied:
Jennifer, caleb said she "held his back to the wall", I asked him if he was pushed and he said she "held him by his arm". he has no marks on his arm, so I would like to think it was just a pull to the wall to get his attention. it makes me furious, yes, but I dont want to say she shoved him or pushed him, or anything to strong there, but he did say what I quoted above.

I just thought it best to clear that one up..

jem0622 replied: I hope that you can talk to the principal soon. If there was a classroom assistant, then you would need their presence on the physical contact part...otherwise it is he said, she said. If I had a classroom full of kids anywhere and I heard a student say "look I have a knife" I would absolutely flip out.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Mentally flipping out is to be expected, but to actually physically flip out about it is not cool, especially when they realize they don't actually have one and are just pretending.

boyohboyohboy replied:
well I know that this board is for balancing opinions, but I just cant get yours...
how can you punish someone who is only 6yrs old, and a young six if you know what I mean, for pretending...he didnt even shove it at the other kid, he held it up for inspection...
anyway, I cant explain it anymore then I have..I have my stand on the whole thing..

if a teacher is that skitsh then maybe it is her time to retire...boys are boys...
and he wasnt doing anything that any other boy hasnt done..

believe me if he had a knife, or it was said in the tone of he wanted to hurt another person. i would let any punishment stand...
I am all for doing what is right...this isnt it.

and if i seem defensive of him , well yes I am he is my son..and if anyone is in his corner its me..

Calimama replied:
On the other side of that, we do hear in the news about kids as young as 6..7..8 bringing weapons to school. Wasn't there a 8 year old that shot a little girl at recess? Anyway my point is if I was that teacher I would have taken it seriously too, at least until I figured out it was just him pretending.

If my child was in that class and a kid said he had a knife and the teacher did NOTHING.. like not even check. I'd flip out.

cameragirl21 replied: I don't think I'd flip out at all if I were that teacher, they're only six and while there are some demented six year olds, I think it would best have been handled if she'd calmly asked Caleb to please give her the pencil and calmly taken him outside in the hall and then asked him, again calmly, if he had a knife and once he said he didn't then calmly explained to him that a knife is not a toy and that it's not appropriate to say things like that in class because it can scare the kids and the teacher too. And that's it, it's that simple, especially if he wasn't threatening anyone with it, just pretending his pencil was a knife. I think had I been that teacher I also would have explained that you can hurt someone with a sharp pencil too just so it's understood and leave it at that. The teacher blew it out of proportion.
This story for some reason reminds me of something that happened to me when I was a kid. I was 14 and used to babysit for a family after school, they had 2 boys, one was in kindy and the other a baby, about year old, maybe a little younger. Anyway, one day the parents took the oldest with them and I took the baby for a walk in his stroller. All of a sudden, I hear angry dogs barking...I look and there is a paper boy who appears to be about 10 or 11 and 2 very angry dobermans barking at him, salivating and getting closer and closer to him (he was across the street from where they lived and they were edging closer and closer, they were in the middle of the street heading toward him and they were moving slowly, not charging but they were definitely going for him). Needless to say, he was scared out of his mind, screaming his head off and if I recall correctly, he'd peed his pants. Well, it would seem the owners weren't home and their lawn service or whomever it was that was there didn't close the gate and the dogs got out. It seemed also that they weren't too fond of this boy who came onto their property daily to do his job. Anyway, the neighbors heard all the commotion and started to step out onto their porches to see what was up but no one was doing anything. It's still not clear to me how it is that all of these adults did not think to get out their garden hose or something to help this boy but no one did.
Well, I'm not afraid of dogs, I grew up with a very aggressive german shepherd so it would take a lot to scare me as far as dogs go. I wanted to help this boy but I was afraid for the baby, that the dogs might scare him or bite him as he was closer to the ground and thereby easier for them to get to. I thought about picking him up and carrying him but I was afraid if he screamed and the dogs jumped on me, I might drop him. Remember, I was barely more than a kid myself so I was reasoning this out like a kid would. So I stood there assessing the situation for about a minute but it felt like an eternity...by this time the dogs were edging much closer, he was literally hysterical and the adults still weren't doing anything. So instinct took over and I just started walking toward him and put myself in between him and the dogs and turned to him and just said, "c'mon, it's ok, let's walk, they can't get to you, I won't let them." And as we were walking the dogs started nipping at my ankles. They weren't drawing blood but I could feel their teeth on my ankles, literally, I am so not exaggerating in the least, there were teeth marks on me but I didn't flip out, I didn't have that luxury, you just can't when you're dealing with someone else's kids. You calmly assess the situation and quickly figure out the best course of action. The dogs, seeing that I wasn't afraid of them retreated after we passed the area across the street from their house, I saw them turn around and go back.
In the end, I was ok, the baby was ok (he didn't even react to the dogs and they ignored him too), the boy was ok and the dogs were ok...hopefully their owners got home and put them back in their yard.
No need to flip out, you're always better off staying calm. If I could do it at 14, where there was real, actual danger involved then I don't see why an adult teacher can't do it.
Edited for a typo.

lovemy2 replied:
You just hit the nail right on the head there Jennifer - a motto ALL teachers should work by