Vaccinations - touchy but I have questions

Mommy2Isabella wrote: With Isabella's recent OUTBREAK ... we are wanting more information on the NO VAX way to go but we have some questions?

Is it too late now to stop her from getting anymore?

If we don't vax baby boy and stop bella's will it keep them from playing sports and going to school?

What are some good resources on finding out what is really in each vaccine and how it effects the child?

Are there any vaccines you would reccomend getting reguardless?

I know for us, Isabella got some Hep C or something because of my dad and I think that is one we would do reguardless ... but ... any others???

THANKS GUYS!! I don't want to debate just want some answers ... TIA!!

grapfruit replied: I would advise AGAINST No Vaxs. I know it was a pain and poor little Bella is having a bad experience . But for the most part the concequences of NOT vaccinating FAR outweigh the side effects OF vaccinating. Plus, there's a good chance schools and what not will require vaccination (public at least).

I would say spread them out (especially the MMR) as it's been linked (although this is hotly debated) to "cause" autisum. Sometimes the combo shots are just too much for their little systems.

Whatever way you go, I say good luck. But have a LONG conversation w/your doctor before you decide anything.

As for the chicken pox. I never had the vacc (wasn't around) and got them twice. And they were really bad. Like 100s of spots, my mom said they were everywhere. In my ears, nose, eyelids, private areas, everywhere. Also, I had a high fever and was misrable for a week. (and she took pictures, so if you need proof I can get them...mean mommy ) What I'm trying to say is I know you're upset Bella got a case of Chicken Pox. It's never easy (or fun!) to see your baby sick like that, but looking at the bright side of things, it sounds like a VERY mild case. She could of gotten them a LOT worse in school or something if you wouldn't of had her vaccinated.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I'm no expert, but I can tell you what I do know...

#1...it's never too late
#2...legally, any school can not deny your child their right to an education or playing sports due to not being vaccinated. If they try, they are breaking the law. Even though they say they are "required", if you get the doctor to sign off on the vacs you will have no problem...or, do like some people do and say you didn't do them for religious reasons...they can not ask you questions about it either if you state that as a reason.
#3...no clue, but possible a holistic doctor might be able to benefit you with some information
#4...we do most of the routine vacs, but we are forgoing the chicken pox, flu, and those of the like, or anything that is relatively new I will not do.

moped replied: Persoanlly I don't think iw ould want my child going to school with no vax..........

Mommy2Isabella replied: We do plan on having both children in a private school, our biggest concerns are will it single them out ... like they won't be able to do things!

If we still get the routive VAX but spread them out, and not get any of the new ones ... like the chicken pox ... can that cause a mess at the school ?

punkeemunkee'smom replied: Find and Read this book

What your Doctor may NOT tell you about your children's vaccinations

Stephanie Cave,M.D.,F.A.A.F.P with Debra Mitchell

It is very educational and doesn't just give one side of the issue!

and feel free to PM me with any questions-I will be back later tonight or early tomorrow and will answer everything I learned while we were decideing and share some info about our experience with you

punkeemunkee'smom replied: Book and Author

Here is a link...I found the book at Walmart quite by accident one day in the midst of an exhaustive search for answers to the questions we were asking...someone had set it down in the diaper isle right on top of the Huggies I was reaching for Call it what you will but by page 5 I had the first glimmer of peace I had since our whole horrid ordeal had started...

bunkie replied:

No it wont, like the pp I quoted said, you just need a doctors note. You CAN still contract chicken pox even if you are vaccinated for it. Thats part of the reason I wont give that vax to my children. All you need to have is it on the records that they did infact have the shot.
Booster shots however do need to be done on time. You can delay the FIRST to a series but the second and sometimes third need to come on time after that first or it wont take and there was no point in even getting the first shot. There are typically 6 week + periods between shots so there aren't any worries of overwhelming the system with a simple booster.

As long as you have your records for the shots they do have and the doctors slips for the shots they dont have, no one can legally stop your children from doing anything.

luvbug00 replied: Mya had all her vax except chicken pox. i researched them and found it to be the right desision for us. we did not do any new vax's because for me there is no proof of the consicquences and so i refuse to risk it. Just inform yourself of both sides but as for school ..religon is basically the only way out.

punkeemunkee'smom replied:

That is not correct...There are several different reasons that you can refuse or defer vaccinations.

MommyToAshley replied:
Regardless of whether you send her to public or private, you still have to have a doctor's statement. Private schools are not more lenient on letting children go without vaccines. In fact, Ashley's 5 year appointment wasn't until September and she started school in August. They sent home a notice reminding me that she would need her vaccines in order to continue attending there... and she goes to private school.

DansMom replied: I almost went this route of not getting the MMR, so I got the paperwork from our Kindergarten. In our district, you sign a waiver saying "I object to vaccinating my child for the following reasons"---religious being one box to check, but philosophical and medical were also options. You have to sign it every year. If there is an outbreak of CP at the school, your child can't attend during the outbreak.

Mommy2Isabella replied: I know that private schools aren't more lienent if anything they would be more strict.

I guess what I was saying is she won't be going to a HUGE public school, with lots of kids and lots of germs ...

tammyhopkins replied: My personal opinion is that whether you take them to private or public they all have germs in them. Getting the normal vaccinations i think is a very good way to go.

With the chicken Pox vaccine it is very common for htem to actually get the virus 10 to 20 days after the vaccine but a very mild case of it compared to what they would have gotten.

I would read alot and talk to your doctor before deciding to go VAX FREE as you never know when you are shopping or at a restaurant or anywhere else who has what and have they touched or breathed on your baby.

moped replied:
YOu will NEVER get away from germs!

Mommy2Isabella replied: Oh I know I will never get away from Germs, they are everywhere.

I mean Im not a hermit we take her out in public. I am really freaky about people touching her though. I just can't see how running a fever and sleeping for almost 2 days is healthy for them < what happens when she gets shots!

lovemy2 replied: My kids will have all their vacs except that we spread out the MMR - I know its a hotly debated topic but if it can be spread out then I decided to do so - my Ped thinks I am nuts cause I always ask to see the bottles to make sure they is not mercury used as a perservative in it - I can't imagine not vacing my children and then them getting some horrid illness because of it - that is purely JMO though and I totally respect parents who decide for whatever reason not to do it - Olivia had whopping cough when she was like 3 almost 4 and had the vac for it so it was very mild and believe me the "mild" case was horrid so I can only imagine what it would have been had she not had the vac and she got it from my MOM - so don't only fear the public/private shools

Mommy2Isabella replied: I am coming from a stand point of my child seems to be ill quite often, so I am looking at our options!

Thanks for all the input guys! Keep it coming .. anyone that has good info please PM and let me know, as far as books or websites!!

Thanks

mummy2girls replied: im personally for vaxs. Yes bella got a reaction but if you were not pregnant right now and this happened would you be rethinking? Some people are agaisnt them and some are for them. and her other vaxs has she gotten a bad reaction?

Schools and daycares will not take a non vax child. it puts risks to the other kids recieving something and bella recieving something. think of it this way... if bella got the MMR and she got a reaction( small one) wouldnt that be better than getting the mumps? or rubella?

i think that because youa re going througha scare because you are preggo you are maby thinking of going agaisnt but if you were not preggo would you even be thinking otherwise?

mummy2girls replied:
yes hun but sleeping for a couple days for reaction to vax and small fever is small compared to if she got mumps because she is not vax'ed. yes its horrible to see our kids sick .. believe me i have been there many times in bad ways ... but hun its better to get them protected.

mummy2girls replied:
i thought you gave her the pox one?

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I personally don't think it will. They can't...it's discrimination.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
It is actually recommended that the pox be given twice now. Tanner's doctor informed me of that at his 5 year check up. I opted NOT to give him it again. Actually, if I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have gotten him the first one. Either way, his doctor was very supportive, as he even agreed that it never guarantees the child will not get it, which to me more or less negates the reason for getting it in the first place.

Mommy2Isabella replied: Bella did get the Pox Vaccine, I am talking about Baby boy getting it i the post you quoted JennasMommy.

As far as would I be thinking this had I not been preggo? Yes, with Isabella we considered going No Vax but were told by the military we did't have a choice, we were niave and went with that, we didn't educate ourselves.

Though this incident has SERIOUSLY made me rethink, and I would be rethinking either way with her having the actual chicken pox. All her other vax she has been for the most part ok, a high fever and sleepy, she has gotten a "rash" before and vommited as well. But for the most part, nothing contagious.

They can't keep her out of school and daycare isn't an issue, it is against the law from what I understand. Same applies to community sports and such. They can't keep you from going somewhere if you have AIDS or HIV ... so why would they be able to if you haven't been vaxed? For the possibility that you COULD catch something.

It has to start somewhere right, obviously my childs vax started the chicken pox outbreak, who knows who else she gave it to before I knew she had the outbreak. So what do they keep me from going to church because she was vax and could have potentially given chicken pox to someone??

mummy2girls replied: I dont know but i think vax is better BUT people have thier oppinions and have a right to them just as i do with my oppinion. Whatever you choose to do so i hope is the best for you guys...

MyBabeMaddie replied: We spent quite a bit of time discussing this in school and I advise you definitely to get the vaccines! The benefits of vaccination outweigh the possibilities that could happen if she wasn't vaccinated.. If you're worried about autism they have research that can correlate autism with vaccines due to the mercury they use as a preservative in vaccines - If you are worried about autism with baby boy you can ask your pediatrician for a list of "ingredients" in their vaccines. If there is any that contain mercury you def shouldn't give it - They have stopped putting mercury in child vaccines tho.

Many rare diseases are coming back due to increased travel in the world - someone from a 3rd world country could travel here to the US who carries a disease which doesn't effect them but could potentially kill an unvaccinated person here. There are just so many risk factors if you don't vaccinate - Sorry if this seems too opinionated - its actually a hot topic we've discussed in school.

Mommy2Isabella replied: Thanks Sara!!

** Do you know the dates you will be here yet?**

I appreciate any input. I read about the autism stuff. Thank you!

julesmom replied: I've been told it is possible to get the chicken pox from the vaccine, but it is a much milder case then if they just caught it on their own.

I've been told they will get a milder, shorter course of chicken pox.

Cece00 replied: Well, I will just tell you that my daughter and youngest son got CP from a child who was not vaccinated against CP. My daughter was 11 months old at the time, and my son was FIVE WEEKS OLD. I was very upset about this- mostly because of my 5 week old baby.

And sure, it WAS just CP...it ended up not being that big of a deal, so that was good.

But what about if it was measles? mumps? Neither of my 2 were old enough at that time to get the MMR. I am very thankful that they did not catch one of those diseases.

So you should think about that. What if she caught something else because you did not vaccinate, and then you pass it onto a child who is too young to get the vax. Like your new baby boy...like someone else's child.

OR, think about it this way- lets say some other mom didnt want to vax her child. Her child then contracts "X Disease"- then your child comes into contact with the infected child, and your child is too young for a vax, so YOUR child gets "X Disease". I guarantee you wouldnt be too happy about that.

IMO- and this is JUST my opinion- the only children who should be going unvaxed are the ones who are going to have a serious reaction to it- if they are immuno compromised (if they have cancer, etc...) or they are allergic to something in the vax, etc. I dont believe the "autism/vax" theories, at all, so I think very few people should refrain from vaxxing.

Now- according to the laws, people have the right to choose, so of course everyone is free to do it should they so choose. I just think its a very slippery slope, esp because a lot of people count on "herd immunity", which just is not feasible in this day in age, esp considering the illegal immigration problem we have going on, specfically people coming from countries where they do not have access to the vax's we do, and so illnesses that basically do not exist here are a problem there.

We already are having outbreak problems with diseases we dont usually see...

In 2005
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5101301733.html

Also in 2005
http://infectious-diseases.jwatch.org/cgi/...full/2006/802/1

Anyway, so you may REALLY want to rethink this. I KNOW you are upset that she got CP- I can totally understand. But she got CP. If she didnt get the vax, she wouldve, at some point, got CP *anyway*. Her case is mild, it may not be the case if she caught CP from another child.

Also- I dont care if she goes to a school with 5 kids in a class. She will be exposed to LOTS of germs. It wouldnt even neccessarily be less germs than if she was in a BIG public school. I see in your sig she is sitting in a grocery cart with no cover- do you have any idea how many germs are on those? In a public restroom? In a restaurant? On other kids she touches who go to any of those places or even go to a big school....you get the point. And actually, kids are SUPPOSED to be exposed to germs. I mean dont make her go lick a doorknob or something but when kids are exposed to germs, it generally strengthens their immune system. If you kept her from ever being exposed to germs (which isnt possible...) the second she stepped out of her little "bubble", she would catch everything under the sun she has never been exposed to, where as another child might have been exposed to that certain cold, flu, whatever, and not catch it again.

KWIM?

Anyway, I just wanted to give MY opinion, which is that I highly recommend vax's for almost all children. The risks do not outweigh the benefits.

punkeemunkee'smom replied: For everyone who keeps saying the risks outweigh the benifits-I will once agin urge you to remember you have obviously NOT been on the receiving end of one of the minute risks " " taking place with your child. Just so that we are clear a fever is a reaction to a vaccination and when your child has a reaction their risk of a greater reaction happening increases with each exposure to the pathogen that caused it in the first place. Please do not discount the FACT that children are harmed by vaccines everyday in this country and whatever you feel about your child's exposure to these illnesses from unvaccinated children-I have NEVER met a parent who took their decision to not vax lightly...

luvmykids replied:
I didn't understand the last part...are you meaning why do they want you to keep her home b/c of the CP? Or do you mean that every time she gets a VAX she is potentially capable of infecting others so how is that any better than non VAX?

bunkie replied:
I totally agree with you! Bravo.

MyBabeMaddie replied: Fevers and other things are common reactions to vaccines, however would you rather have your child spike a fever for a day or two or develop some disease like polio. I, personally if I could speak for my 1 year old would prefer to have a fever for a couple days than be paralyzed. JMO

amymom replied: I have a few things to say about this. First, I applaud you Jessica for wanting to do the research. And someone already said it is not too late to stop vaxs, if you so choose. I hope that is not your choice eventually, but you have time. So learn all you can and then make your decision.

My data is all life experience, I did not do much research, other than discuss with friends who are pediatricians or other physicians. I did choose to get regular, recommended vaccinations for my children.

I am from a generation that did not have vaccinations. I actually had the diseases Mumps, Measles, Rubella, Chicken Pox. I did receive a small pox vaccination in 1962, and a live polio vaccination in the 60's as well. That vaccination for small pox was made almost unnecessary. As you all know, most of you did NOT receive a small pox vaccination. And your children do not receive this unless going to specific countries.

I and my siblings all did well with the diseases, as did most of my friends. And having the diseases makes us immune. Like someone said:


This is what vaccines do for you, as well.

My Son had the Chicken Pox vaccine after it had been out for a few years. One year after he had the vaccine my 11 month old daughter (scheduled to receive the chicken pox vaccine at her 12 month appt.) got the chicken pox. She was covered with them. On the second day of her outbreak I counted and she had 76 pox. She continued to break out for a few more days. Needless to say, she was miserable. My son who had been vaccinated started 21 days later and he had 6 pox. I could have sent him to school and no one would have known he had chicken pox, he had no fever, he was lively and he did not even itch. His vaccine definitely made his case milder. VERY much milder. I did keep him away from others. Many were not vaccinated in his class, as I said the vaccine was new then. (boy I am old!!!)

I remember having the measles and the mumps. Both are not good memories, especially the mumps, what a horrible disease. I do not recall having Rubella, but my mother said it was not a good time and she almost asked for me to be hospitalized.

Sorry this got so long. But the bottom line for me is: I believe that if another generation or two, mostly gets vaccinated, these diseases can be almost eradicated. Do I have scientific evidence for this? no just a belief. But I think it is a possibility. And yes it is a personal AND a medical choice.

Good Luck with all your research. Sorry about her reactions, I hope all are feeling better.

Mommy2Isabella replied:

I am aware ... however in my sig it doesn't show that I throughly wipe the cart down with antibacterial wipes. Either way I can't protect her from ALL germs, she would be sick wether or not we vaxed if I did that.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Unfortunately, I don't think any of the diseases will forever go away. They live all over the place, even in the dirt outside your house.

Mommy2Isabella replied: Thanks guys!

Sal and I were talking about it last night, we have a question, does anyone know if the MMR shot can be split to be just Measels, Mumps, and Rubella < each a different shot that can be given at different times??

MyBrownEyedBoy replied: This is a very personal decision and I would never presume to tell another parent what to do. I will tell you what I've done and why I've done it.

Logan is fully vaccinated. All on time, with the exception of a few we had to delay due to his heart surgery. (Apparently the heartl\lung machine can scrub new antibodies out of the circulation.) When he was diagnosed with his heart condition (at less than 1 day) I made the decision that I would protect him from nearly anything else I could. He gets a yearly flu vax, I'd rather not compromise his lungs, it could cause heart failure. He has had all vaccinations as scheduled, if I can prevent measles, mumps, rubella, I will do so. Now, if he'd had a serious reaction to any of his vaccines, I would have had some deciding to do. But he's a smart, normal, well-adjusted little boy who has shown no signs of long-term problems from vaccines. He doesn't have autism, he didn't get chicken pox, he attends daycare and I'd rather he be protected from any hepatitis I can protect him from.

Again, this is my opinion only and I would never tell another parent that my way is right. It is simplymy way.

MyBrownEyedBoy replied:
Yes, they can split the MMR.

bunkie replied:
I'm pretty sure they can, The reason its in a combo shot is so that its easier to give, less pricks to baby.

Personally I think thats the best way to go, separate shots. However the military doesn't have that option so we have to get it or not.


PS: I also dont use the cart covers because the germs latch onto the fabric and unless you watch it after each time you use it its pointless, but like you I wipe the cart down with wipes. Keep your head up.

BabyOwen427 replied: I understand your frustrations with vaccines, I've had my own problems with it. You can read my post here. We have decided to spread out his vaccines but we are not going to eliminate many. However chicken pox is one I would have never given him if I had a choice. And I will be sure to read the bottles nexttime like lovemy2 does. It never occured to me that I should be doing that but I don't want another mistake to happen to us again. Next time it could be much worse so I check now.

I think you are right in doing your research and seeking anwsers to your questions. Only you can make the right decision for your children. I personally would give the regular vaccines but not on the 'perfect' timetable.

I'm sorry Isabella got sick and I hope she starts feeling better real soon.

ETA: I did use the shopping cart covers at first but that was only when he was mouthing the handles. Now that he's grown out of mouthing everything I put him in with out the cover. He still gets exposed to whatever he touches but it's not gross KWIM? Anyways I'm sure she's out of that mouthing stage too so there probably isn't much worry about that.

Boo&BugsMom replied: I do believe the correlation between the vacc and autism is truthful. BUT...I also believe that the mercury once used in it was the correlaton to autism. They are not made anymore with merc. but it is important to ask your ped or the nurse if the vaccs are merc. free. This is why...

I met a mom during my maternity leave. She had a little boy who was handicapped and had mild autism. Her child was once a normal little boy, fully functioning. He talked normally, ran, walked, etc. like any other normal child. At his 2 year old checkup he got his first booster shot (MMR). The day after the shot he could not talk, walk, anything. Her child pretty much became mentally and physically challenged overnight. It was later found out that the shot he recieved had mercury in it. Even though they did not MAKE them anymore containing merc., they still distributed and used the remaining vaccs that contained the merc. This is why I always ask, because you can't be 100% certain that all those vaccs are gone. And, I fully believe that this is why we see a spike of autism in children at 2 years old, because that is when many children recieve their first MMR, which contained more merc. than other vaccines. I believe it 100%. Of course the doctors are going to deny it...can you imagine the lawsuits everyone in the medical industry would face???

mummy2girls replied:
wow thats sad. but she waited till age 2 to get the mmr? odd you usually get them at 12 months

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Usually 2 around here. Tanner didn't get his until age 2...I think...I may have to go back and check to be certain.

Mommy2Isabella replied: Thanks for all of the input guys, we have come to a decision on what we are going to do from the point on!!

Boo&BugsMom - That is a very sad story. I know now what to ask and what to look for as far as ingredients go!!

THANKS GUYS ... also I must applaud everyone for not getting UGLY!! Turning this into something it wasn't meant to be, I learned a lot! THANKS

bunkie replied:
Its 12 months here also but I delayed MMR indefinitely.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Interesting, since typing this I wanted to look for sure in case I was wrong. looked at Tanner's vac card and his first one was 2 years. Maybe it's just at his doctor's office. They seem to not bombard the vaccs and spread them out and delay some more. That's why I love my boy's ped! He uses his common sense and just doesn't do something just because all the other doctor's are doing it.

DansMom replied: First MMR is at 2 years in Michigan.

natersmommy replied: vaccinations were created to protect people from potential outbreaks...if you don't vaccinate children you cause them to have a higher risk... i can't understand why you would want that for YOUR child... i want to protect my child from as much as possible... that includes illness...and because we are in such a modern society where you can still get TB from the guy next to you on a plane....i would sure like to know i was vaccinated from it! but most importantly i would LOVE to know i prevented my child from unnecessary sickness. Were you vaccinated when you were a child? would you have changed that? I do agree however that the newest vaccinations are scary... i want the vaccines to be safe...the longer they have been around the safer they are. well i hope i didn't come off too strong... this is what i was raised to believe....
oh yeah:
i went to a public school my entire childhood and they wouldn't allow me to attend uless i kept up on my shots.... it makes since though... if an unvaccinated student catches something while attending that school it puts the school at a higher risk of getting sewed. that is one of the reasons they don't let you attend unless you are caught up.

Nina J replied: There are probably organisations of parents out there who are opposed to vaccinations, you should try to contact them.

Personally, we vaccinate. It isn't nice to see you child ill for a few days, but I know I would be devestated if I had to see my child go through a preventable disease like polio. Even though diseases like polio have been eraticated in most developed nations, you can still get it. A student flew in to Australia a couple of months ago and went to hospital shortly after landing, they had polio. They were in the country for less than a day and came in to contact with over 200 people, who themselves contacted hundreds if not thousands of people. It seems far fetched to think of these things. But which is worse, having your child be lethargic and feverish for a few days, or having your child's motor neurons be destroyed from polio, a disease that is easily transmitted and preventable.

But, it is your prerogative. Try contacting groups or organisations

punkeemunkee'smom replied:

I don't know where you are from but here in the U.S. we don't blanket vaccinate for TB.

Nina J replied:
I know that they didn't contract it on the plane. They were put into isolation shortly after they arrived here, so the virus was in full swing when they were sitting on the plane. Polio is a contagious disease, 100's of people on the plane came into contact with this person, who then came into contact with many other people. Nobody actually caught it from him, but every single person on the plane was tracked down and given an injection. If they hadn't have had that happen, who knows?

One thing I know for sure is polio is a devestating disease. My Aunt was bed riden for two years when she was a child, polio killed one of her legs. She still suffers to this day, decades later. Children in developing nations die everyday from completly preventable diseases because they never had the opportunity to get vaccinated. It's fine people in developed nations chose not to vaccinate, the diseases here are almost completly eraticated.

None of us ever really has to experience what it is like not to have immunisation available. But there are millions of mothers in developing countries who could never get their baby vaccinated and had to sit back and watch them die because of a disease that could've been prevented by a little needle and a few days of fever.

At least we can have some peace by knowing that we can vaccinate if we want, and have our children protected. I don't really care if other parents chose not to vaccinate, I honestly don't think their kids will get polio. My children are my number one priority.