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What do you see Universal Healthcare as


coasterqueen wrote: This past weekend we spent the weekend with some friends of ours. We all love talking politics so we had some interesting conversations. One thing we talked about is this Universal Health Care that everyone seems to want and thinks is best for our country.

What do YOU think Universal Health Care is? How do you think it is going to work? How do you think it will affect you?

**I honestly didn't start this topic to offend anyone, or start a huge debate. I am truly curious how others see what Universal Health Care will be. I ask because after talking with our friends, Dh saw it much differently than me, and same for our friends. I just think it's very hard, IMO, to say you are for something if you don't know exactly what it is -- I know I don't know for sure. Do you? Are you a 100% sure what this whole system will be?**

momofone replied: If it helps those who cant afford healthcare I think it good. I don't know all the details about the affordability of it.

grandma replied:
Honestly I don't know enought about how it works to say. I do know that I don't think anyone should not have insurance.
They have socialized medical coverage in Canada, right?

mummy2girls replied: Well I like it. Yes sometimes it can be a long wait to see a specialist BUT if it is something that needs to be seen then they will squeeze you in fast!

I have dealt with the healthcare and recieved things that i know i would not of been able to afford with our health care we have. Jordan was in the NICU and PICU with no cost to me at all. Jenna goes to teh ABC headstart program at school and a Speech pathologist, OT and PT sees her and with no cost to me. She had her adenoids and tonsils removed with no cost to me. And having a baby was no cost at all. Yes its frustrating to have to wait for some things but I would rather wait the 3 months to see a specialist then to recieve a bill in the mail that is worth thousands... I would be in major debt right now. When I was goign through that scare with my tummy and such they got me in to see a specialist in a week. when marcus had teh mole scare he was referred to a derm within days. my scare and rush to the er this past weekend, the tests i went through and such no cost to me. I personally like it.. but thats just me.

grandma replied:
Where do you live?

coasterqueen replied: I think it is very important to know how it may work before believing it's a good thing, IMO.

There were several ways I heard it was going to work, but basically (let's see if I can explain this without being too confusing) we'd all have government heatlh care "insurance". So those who do work for a living, the money your employer pays for your health insurance will go to the federal government instead of the health insurance company you once had (i.e. Blue Cross Blue Shield). The money you paid to your employer for health insurance for (i.e. BCBS) will not go to the federal government. Then the money you pay and your employer pays helps the federal government subsidize those who do not work or can't get insurance in any way.

That's the first step. #2 So now we all have the same health care. The type of health care will go down (the service of health care) - so those of us who like getting into the doctor right away will now have to wait like the rest of everyone else. UNLESS........we, those who work for a living or can afford to do so, can buy supplemental insurance through (i.e. BCBS) and will have to pay EXTRA to have that coverage. So the coverage we once had, you know the kind where we paid a certain portion to our employer and they paid the rest and we got into the doc whenever we needed, well that's NOT going to happen anymore unless we pay EXTRA for a supplemental policy. Which those policies will more than likely be something you have to pay a pretty "premium" for.

I can see why those who can't afford health insurance like Universal Health Care - because they will now get coverage they don't have to pay for. Those of us that do pay for it (some of us even struggle to do so, but do) will now have to even pay more if we want the same service we are getting now.

That's just a tip of the iceberg on how I see Universal Health Care.

coasterqueen replied:
Shelly, we'd all like it if we couldn't afford insurance.

You have to look at it from the standpoint of those of us who already have (struggle very badly, btw) to pay for health insurance and now if this goes into affect, our quality of service will go down. I'm not sure that's fair.

I'm not sure how this gives anyone the incentive to fight hard in life to do the best they can and to make it on their own. This shows to me that we should just rely on the government. Why go to school? Why go to college? Why try to get a job that allows you to have health insurance then?

BTW, this isn't directly totally to you Shelly. hug.gif

mummy2girls replied:
canada

grandma replied: I'm still confused, is this for the US?

lisar replied: Its a bad topic for me. I dont like it and DONT want it. I dont wanna say anything else on the topic cause I will offend plenty. No one in canada though your goverment knows how to run it. Ours wouldnt. Our goverment wouldnt be able to do it right.

mummy2girls replied:
im sorry but i CAN afford healthcare. I am on blue cross for the other stuff not covered by the universal healthcare we have. and i pay every 3 months certain amount of money to go towards the health care i recieve. So im sorry BUT i CAN afford it...

mummy2girls replied:
you may say it isnt directed toward me totally but i do find it a bit offensive that anyoen would say that to someone who is recieving the healthcare I am. I am goign to be goign to school. I do work over 50 hours a week with my business so i deserve health care. and btw I CAN AFFORD HEALTCARE> I AM PAYING FOR COVERAGE I HAVE!!!

lisar replied:
If I am reading this right correct me if I am wrong.

We would still be paying for health care for people who couldnt afford it. We are doing that now. Its called medicaid or medicare or whatever.

grandma replied: Hello wavey.gif
Can someone answer my question - is this for the United States?

Our Lil' Family replied:
yes

coasterqueen replied:
Shelly,

I am very sorry if I offended you. It was not my intention whatsoever, and I'm sorry if my words came out wrong. I'm not sure what else to say. hug.gif

grandma replied:
lol - Thanks. Now I know what you are talking about.

So, I'm not sure I'm liking what I'm hearing. We'll pay alot more money for the same coverage....hum.

mckayleesmom replied:
thumb.gif Yes it is

mckayleesmom replied:
Thats what I thought when I heard about it......We have Medaid and such for people who need help....So basically they just want to give it to everybody now and charge us more for it.

lisar replied:
I have health insurance here in the states. Raygen in the NICU cost me nothing. Having her cost me nothing. Going to the dr while pg cost me $25.00 total. Hysterectomy cost me nothing. I pay a $15.00 copay everytime one of the kids or me or dh have to go to the dr or anything or specialist. I like what I have. We pay a total of $70.00 a month for the insurance. And I wanna keep it.

The headstart program here is FREE to everyone. And if you child needs to see a speech specialist its free in the school system. I know I went to one from k-5th grade.

As for you Shelly if you like the insurance you have then great, good for you. Like I said earlier Canada does a good job running thier insurance program. The U.S. WONT DO A GOOD JOB. Our goverment is horrible at things like this.

coasterqueen replied:
This is my understanding.

Think about it. How else is the government going to pay for this? The money has to come from somewhere, so it's going to be those of us who pay taxes and pay for health care already. Then if you want the same services you have now, you'll have to pay extra for supplemental. Now this is how I'm understanding it all, but I could be completely wrong.

I just think it's completely unfair that I will have to pay extra to get the same service I have now, if this goes through. The bad thing is I won't be able to afford extra, unless I give up amentities which I can. So then I guess I become just as reliant on the government as those who couldn't afford it in the first place. This is why I'm saying, why would this give anyone, including myself, the incentive to try their hardest to do anything in this world - why not just sit back and let the government take care of me?

mckayleesmom replied:
I agree....I think our Country would mess it up and we will be even more in the hole.

Plus...what is going to happen to the people that work for insurance companies?...Im sure there will still be some insurance companies for the people that want the better deal....but I imagine that some peoples jobs would go out the window.....

grandma replied:
I don't think that this United Healthcare will actually change people be who they aren't. I mean working people will still work, still want nice things and still want to be able to take care of their kids, schooling, etc.
However with the cost of healthcare for some ppl now I can't imagine paying more for the same coverage.

MommyToAshley replied: Health care is a sore spot for me. I worked my way through college, and I still work pretty hard now. But, because I am self-employed and don't have the benefit of a group plan through work, private insurance is outrageous.... even BCBS.

I listened to the democratic debates for the main purpose of learning more about their Universal Health Care plans. Clinton and Obama both claim they want Universal Health care ... however, one will be mandatory and one will not be (except for children). One will impose a mandate and fine if you do not comply and the other will not. An example was given of the health care system in Massachusetts where I guess insurance is required (I never knew this). Anyways, in this example the family could not afford health insurance but chose to pay the fine because it was less than the insurance itself. SO, they are now worse off... paying a fine for insurance and they still don't have it.

Another aspect, Clinton wants to make the insurance income based. So what will probably happen is the same thing that happens with all social programs. The rich won't really be affected, they will pay a little more but can afford it and will still have insurance. The unemployed won't have to pay a dime because they can't afford it. The middle class will be burdened by the cost once again.

Obama says that his Universal Health care plan won't be income based but he plans to lower the costs over-all and make it affordable for all. But, he hasn't really spelled out how he plans to do that.

What I am getting at is that I would have to see the plan before I agree or disagree with it. Even the democrats that are for Universal Health care don't agree on what it is. I am all for health care reform... our system now is ridiculous. But, no one yet has been able to spell out how they are going to make it work.

lisar replied:
So its kinda like taxes.... biggrin.gif The rich get screwed the middle class are still "okay" and the poor get to reap all benefits.

mckayleesmom replied: I just have this gut feeling that if we try universal healthcare...it will be screwed up somehow and put everyone in more debt.....Then they will jack the price of something else up to make up for it.

luvmykids replied: I didn't read all the replies, and I don't know much at all about UHC.

In my little mind though, I don't know that we need it but I think something like regulating insurance rates and healthcare costs could go a long way towards more people being able to afford it on their own.

I don't think it's a suprise that although some treatments and procedures are expensive and worth the money, the majority of medical treatment is ridiculously inflated and overpriced. If these things (insurance, dr visits, medications, etc) were priced more along the lines of basic cost plus mark up (like many other retail goods and services) enough people who can't afford it now would be able to (although it may still be difficult, at least doable) and those remaining could be covered or insured through subsidized plans.

I totally in favor of paying my own insurance/health care costs....just make them reasonably affordable.

grandma replied:
Kinda like that Stimulis Tax Refund some ppl will get....

mckayleesmom replied:
I agree....I think they need to look into the prices for things being charged in hospitals or doctors offices...etc.

I know that when I had my c-section with Mckaylee..I asked for some benadryl because something they gave me made me itch.....We don't pay anything for our medical directly....but we still get a bill from Humana telling us what they paid.....I don't remember the exact amount they charged for the Benadryl....but I remember it being outrageous and I should have just had Leithan go buy me a whole bottle of it.

Also...have you noticed that Hospitals scan everything now? Its like being on a conveyer belt at the supermarket.

mckayleesmom replied:
Exactly....I think that is just going to put us in even more debt because people are probably going to save it.

grandma replied:
See I think they will spend it and not be able to pay it back.

mckayleesmom replied:
I thought they were planning to take it out of next years taxes... unsure.gif Is that not the plan anymore? If so...then they wouldn't have a choice wether or not to pay it back.

PrairieMom replied: i haven't read all the responses, and I will admit that I don't know what the right answer is, no one has the perfect system, but I think at the very least there need to be some MAJOR changes done with our system. For example, there is no limit on what a drug company can charge for its drugs, drug companies are buying our representatives in government, so the people that we need to make changes won't because they are profiting from things being the way that they are.

AND I will say right now that just because you can afford health insurance doesn't mean that you can have it.

I can afford to have insurance. but I am uninsurable. why? because I have a chronic condition that I will have for the rest of my life. Asthma. Even tho I haven't been to a Dr for it, had an ER visit for over 10 years and a hospital stay for probably 15 years I am still uninsurable. that means that I can have insurance for anything except for my Asthma. IF I ever get sick, that will be what I get sick with. It won't cover any of my meds either, which can be over $500 a month. THAT is total BS.
To cover my family with this plan was $800 a month.

Now I work only so i can be covered under a group health plan that can't refuse me coverage.

I think that those of us that have universal plans through our work sometimes don't have a strong understanding of what insurance in the private sector is like.

lisar replied:
Great idea. I think if they could regulate the prices and make it a little more affordable for everyone it would go a long way. Put a cap on what they can charge atleast.

booey2 replied: Just wanted to add here that both DH and I have university degrees, work 40-50 hours a week and have additional coverage through Dh's work but if we didn't have the coverage from his work we couldn't get it on our own because I am labled highrisk because I am............obese. Yes I said it. Unfortunately when we get our life insurance done we have one carrier for DH and another for me. I wouldn't go as far t say I love our Health Insurance up here in Canada but I don't know where we would be without it. I only hope that if the USA does inplement it that they are able to manage it as well as our government has.

ZandersMama replied: I love canadian health care. and no, i cant afford privite insurance. not a chance. I'm a single mom with 2 kids. Their dad walked out right before Zavier came home from the hospital. Zaviers bills would have been over a million dollars if I lived in the usa. So i'm very happy we have universal. I never saw a bill for any of it. The only things I had to worry about were a few perscriptions when he came home, about 80$.

I think its great that people like me, who cant afford a privite insurance, dont have to worry about how their kids are getting their medical needs met. I'm trying my best, but it is simply something i can''t afford. Some months its a choice between rent and groceries, and privite insurance isnt something i could afford. I dont think i'm sitting back and letting the government take care of me............i'm doing my damndest to make sure i can provide for my boys. But privite insurance isnt a luxury i can afford.

Sorry I am sure this seems like a nasty response, but a few comments kind of hit below the belt there. I know they were not directed at me, just wanted to offer a viewpoint from someone who is in that situation and can't survive without it.

edited for language, sorry zan was up sleepwalking all nite

Kaitlin'smom replied: I dunno but something needs to be done about the cost of care, familys should not have to file bankrupsey just to care for a sick family member. I think part of the big problem is the cost of some of the things they charge for. I actually got an itimised bill one time after DH had been in the hospital and it was outragous the cost for an achol wip and baind aid NEVER used. It also seems to me the big things that happen that put people into major debt, not so much the little things. I fear the ideas one person has on how to fix it and I have very little confidence that our government can run anythign like that. I am sure what ever the plans are its going to help some and screw the middle class liek always.

TheOaf66 replied: cap not only the medicines but it seems every dr can choose different prices for the same procedures. Also what really hurts is that with so many people not paying their bills that makes the prices go up. Since there are no penalties for not paying your bills people will just keep on doing it. There is a big flaw.

grandma replied:
I've heard that too, but not sure if that's what's gonna happen or not.

Jamison'smama replied: I agree with M2A in that different people have different versions of universal health care. With Hillary's plan, you can keep the plan you have if you'd like or you can choose to have the same government plan that congress has. The universal health care differs from medicaid in that it bridges the gap between those who qualify for public assistance and those whose employment offers healthcare at an affordable rate. The employees who work 34 hours and don't qualify for coverage and work at a low paying job would fit here as well as the self employed. It would not do any more to encourage people to work less than medicaid does (and I don't want to debate that smile.gif)

my2monkeyboys replied: I think that prescriptions need to have some sort of cap on them if they are not offered in generic form. Other than that I think the govt needs to stay out of it. If it is a fully private sector then the laws of business will balance out the costs, services, etc. If doctor A charges $50 and doctor B charges $80 then the patient will naturally choose doc A. That will cause the doctor B to lower prices.
Same as all private sector businesses. I think universal health care would blow, all the way around. JMO.

MommyToAshley replied:
I learned something new, I did not know this was an option. I'm not saying I would want to keep our insurance because it is aweful, but I just didn't even know it was an option. And neither do the others that oppose UHC because that seems to be a big argument against it.

I've listened to both democratic candidates speak and I've listened to a few of their debates and I don't think either have done a good job of laying out their plans. I will have to go back and check out their websites to see if they've added any more substance and are more forthcoming.

jcc64 replied: My version of Universal Healthcare is that anyone, regardless of income or ability to pay, would have access to healthcare, and no one would have to fear financial ruin if hit with a catastrophic health crisis. No one would have to choose between eating, or heating, and their meds. Pre-existing conditions would not preclude people from accessing coverage. Hard working families and small business owners like M2A's wouldn't have to struggle so to provide insurance for themselves. That's my version of universal healthcare. If I have to wait a few extra days to see a specialist for a non-emergency, I'm down with that. I'll sacrifice a little for the good of the herd as a whole. We need to look out for each other, if we are as compassionate as we claim to be as a nation.
Karen, I love you sister, but I don't get why you have such a punishing attitude about who "deserves" to get sick. I know you work very hard for what you have, but that doesn't mean that people w/o coverage haven't as well. Yes, there are lazy people who don't take care of their own business. But there are plenty more, children mostly, who are simply not covered b/c it's not economically feasible for them to do so. I'll take the risk of paying for the lazy people if it means EVERYONE, including my own, can afford to get sick in this country. However it needs to happen.

PrairieMom replied:
I don't agree that it would necessarily balance out.
For example, lets say you are overweight and want a Gastric bypass. Dr A will give you one, for his price, but it is invasive, and will cause you to have a lengthly hospital stay. The risks are much higher. Dr B can do a gastric banding, which is a newer procedure, fewer people are doing them, so they cost more. it is safer for you, and has less complications. you would be stuck with Dr A.
In the medical field things are very complex. Its not like buying a car, where if you can shop around different dealerships for different prices/ models or colors.

In health care you usually get into who your GP will refer you to, (his buddy) or who has privileges at your hospital, (many people only have access to one hospital)
Most Dr's work in groups, in which case you will get the Dr who is on call, not necessarily the cheapest one.
And, you don't get to choose your radiologist, that reads your x-rays, you get who you get, and what they charge.

MommyToAshley replied:
I think that sounds like an ideal plan too... but who is going to pay for it? Are the rich and middle class going to be responsible for low income because cost is based on income? Or, is it going to be paid through increased taxes? If that is the case, the middle class is no better off.. you are just shifting the dollars from insurance premiums to tax dollars. We already carry that burden now. Why do you think insurance premiums are so high? Or why do you think one bandaid costs $5? It's because the person that does pay for that one bandaid has to pay for the four other people that don't. The poor will still be covered, they are covered now and have medicade available to them. Like I said, I have yet to see anyone say HOW they are going to make their plan work.

coasterqueen replied:
No, no, no. I don't think you understand it will be the middle class that is burdened the most by all of this. Which is usually the case.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Lisa, can we move in with you? laugh.gif

Troy works for the hospital, and we still pay almost $300 a month in insurance. the coverage is better than most, but still not "wonderful".

I'm not sure that to think about this whole thing. I am on the fence because I just don't know all the facts yet about how it would work.

TheOaf66 replied:
that would be because of our wonderful governor...don't get me started

coasterqueen replied: First off I've been in a position for many many years without health insurance. When I tried to get private insurance on my own I wasn't covered for many pre-exisiting conditions including asthma, migraines, and other issues I won't go into. I paid out the nose with a massive deductible to have that insurance, but after several months had to cancel it because I couldn't afford it. Now I have insurance through my Dh's employer where the employer pays a percentage and so do we. All of my family has a deductible, as well as out-of-pocket expenses every time we go to the doctor. BUT we have excellent coverage for the price we pay and therefore I do NOT want to lose that. So I have been where you are Prairiemom. You can still have coverage for everything else, just not the pre-existing conditions. IMO, that's better than nothing. You are choosing not to be covered. If you get cancer they cant' say it's because of your asthma. I guess I don't understand your logic on that.

I am not all hell bent on who deserves what here. I am just tired, me being in the middle class, for paying for everyone's needs. I work my tail off to meet my needs and I deserve it. I don't deserve to be sick less or someone else who doesn't work hard doesn't deserve to be sick. I'm saying that I shouldn't have to pay more than I already am. I have never had anything handed to me on a silver platter and never will. But I worked my way up from the ground and I shouldn't be shoved back to the ground because the government thinks I should pay for everyone else.

Shelly, if you are reading this - I don't understand why you said you couldn't have afforded certain stuff without the Canadian health care system, yet you say you have supplemental insurance. ?????

And once and for all I by no means wanted to offend anyone. Unfortunately it's going to happen anyways. We all grow up in different circumstances and are going to see things different ways. Unfortunately I grew up watching people get handed everything to them by the government while my parents were working very hard, never home, sacrificing our family to give us the basic needs. So IMO it can be done. If that means two people have to work in the family, you have to move to a town where lodging and such isn't as expensive, giving up cell phones, internet, extra gifts, extra splurges here and there, etc, etc, etc, - then you do it. You do it to provide the basic needs - health care to your family is one of it. I will not apologize for learning that from my father. He's not prejudiced by teaching me that. He taught me those things because he wanted me to see I can live without a lot of things in order to provide the basic needs for my family. He showed me how he gave up so much to provide the basic needs for his family. That was a decision he made, a decision to bring a family in this world, which meant he was responsible for it.

Slam me all you want for being raised to give up everything in life to provide the basic needs. Call me whatever you want. It's how I see it.

I started this conversation to hear how everyone else sees UHC. Because IMO no one knows how it's really going to work and IMO I'm not going to vote for someone who can't tell me how it is going to work. I wouldn't vote for them no matter what their party line is. You cant' sit there and sell me on change and how you are going to make life so much better than the last president if you can't even tell me how.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Amen!!! Being a middle class family, I can totally relate. Actually, lower-middle class. sleep.gif

TheOaf66 replied:
I totally know how you feel Karen

PrairieMom replied:
$300 a month!? that is awesome! I pay $550. and our insurance isn't great by any means.

My2Beauties replied:
No I just got an e-mail about this and you can look at the irs.gov website, it will not hurt your tax refund for next year thumb.gif

lisar replied:
Sure come on........ DH works for U-Haul. They have the same plan no matter where in the US you are so get on there. They have the nations #3 insurance plan for employees. Its great. And I know not everyone is lucky enough to get a job with a great insurance plan heck the one we have here where I am SUCKS big time. over a thousand dollars a month for a family. Its crazy. But thats Aetna for you.

PrairieMom replied:
I'm not uninsured. I work solely to provide insurance for my family because I am uninsurable by private insurance. I am just saying that the insurance industry needs to be better regulated. IMO it is totally unfair of them to say that they will take my outrageously high premiums, but then not help me out with the one thing that I am most likely to need help with. Its robbery.

I totally agree with you that the middle class gets stuck always. I saw it all the time growing up, and not just with health care. the lower income children always made out better than me. its very frustrating.

Maybe the answer would be regulating our current system so that insurance companies would be forced to cover people in high risk groups instead of discriminating against them.

lisar replied:
Can you explain how to me. I am trying to understand a little better. Thanks

Boo&BugsMom replied:
U-Haul hey? Hum...I'm going to have to remember that. Thanks! thumb.gif

gr33n3y3z replied: MO I dont want it

I see how long ppl. have to wait to get in to the Dr's to be seen and their kids
If I call a Dr I dont want to have to wait and see them.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
At $550 a month, I may as well not even work. blush.gif That's about what I bring home every month. sad.gif

PrairieMom replied:
I bring home a whole $400 a month after insurance is taken out. Lets do the math... that is over 1/2 my income. growl.gif BUT, I have no other option. so... I work.

TheOaf66 replied:
can he stow us away in one of his trucks to come down to FLorida???

luvmykids replied:
Karen, I'm not offended by you nor am I arguing with you. I just happen to know, from personal experience, that for some people there may be periods of time where it isn't possible, no matter what "luxuries" you give up or how much you downsize.

I won't bore you with our financial crises over the last year that we are just coming out of but I will tell you this....we DID give up cable, eating out, phone and internet for some periods of time, sold almost everything we could live without (including my wedding ring) and guess what....we STILL couldn't afford insurance. I too consider health insurance a basic need. But it comes after house, food, heat, etc and there were some months we couldn't even afford those things. On the outside it's very easy for someone to say we could have or should have done more but we genuinely couldn't and it took all we could do to survive another week or month.

Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just wanted to point out that their are some people who bust their tails, don't live large and still come up short. In spite of all that, guess what, we still didn't qualify for any help. Go figure, we worked hard, had a very successful business, paid HUGE amounts of money in taxes, and couldn't even get temporary medicaid for the kids.

I understand your point, and admire your parents for teaching you that you do what it takes for your family. I just don't feel it's that black and white.

coasterqueen replied:
Monica,

I respect your point and see it as well. Believe me, there were many times both my parents worked two jobs a piece and we saw babysitters more than our parents. My father worked sometimes three jobs in the winter when he was laid off from his other job. Winters were always horrible for us because my father was a builder and would be laid off every winter. My mother grew a garden and canned which we ate lots of during those winter months.

I know it's not black and white. I know I have it easier than my parents ever did, so it may appear that I see things so black and white and so much easier because I can afford more than them, but it's not true. I remember wearing yard sale clothes to school, I remember never getting to take ballet, other sports, etc because my parents couldn't afford it. I remember working in the lunchroom at school because my parents couldn't even afford my lunch. I HAVE been there.

My2Beauties replied: I just want to say that I think a lot of you are overestimating medicaid, my husband's cousin had kidney failure, he was self-employed when he fell ill and he did construction for a living so he couldn't work. He was in dialysis for 4 hours a day 4-5 days a week, he could NOT work. They denied him for medicaid!! growl.gif growl.gif He fought tooth and nail to receive medicaid, I mean for years. Finally, when he received it, they backdated it and paid his mounting medical bills that he was in hundreds of thoudands of dollars of debt over....about a year and a half ago he finally received his transplant but he fought them over that too! It was ridiculous....so just because you're "poor" or not working does not necessarily mean you qualify for medicaid. They didnt' approve my grandmother for medicaid until probably a month or two before she passed away, she fought for over 5 years. She was retired and very very ill, she only had medicare because she lost her medical insurance in retirement and medicare isn't worth a crap, it pays nothing. My grandparents had to take out a 2nd mortgage on their home (that has been paid off for years might I add) in order to pay their medical bills. The healthcare in this country is ridiculous. I have excellent coverage now and so did my g-parents before they retired but they couldn't afford COBRA and they both fell too ill to continue to work. Karen, I hear what you are saying, but when it comes to things like this, this is the last thing I want to be selfish about, while I think I have good coverage, it won't help me when Brian retires at 60 and we no longer have the coverage anymore. You have to think about the long run and you have to think about everyone, especially children who are not covered.

Please do not think that all poor people receive medicaid.
Oops Edited because I put medicare instead of medicaid in some spots...they are all right now tongue.gif

luvmykids replied:
The only reason I brought it up was that I know how shafted I felt that we couldn't even get temporary coverage for the KIDS.....nevermind us. We have worked, paid our taxes for these programs, in recent years very high taxes, and then felt like the system failed us....here are three kids who have no coverage, their parents have done their part to pay for these programs, and they are denied. Didn't sit well with me, and still doesn't.

coasterqueen replied:
This is where you are wrong about me Lea Ann. My husband and I do think about the long run every single day of our lives. We know that things may change in our life to wear we won't have coverage, and retirement age is one of them. Hence why I'd rather see the government give me my SS money so I can save it more wisely than them wink.gif. I'm not naive by any means. I know tomorrow my husband could lose his job and we could be without insurance. It's my job as a parent to think of all the possibilities, not ignore them. I also know that I'd go to my family for help before I go to the government if that ever happens. That's just me, and that's just how I was raised.

coasterqueen replied:
I bet. You also haven't been "poor" your entire life. The government is just awesome at only helping out those who've always been less fortunate, not those who find themselves on hard times for short periods of time.

Again, someone might slam me for that response, but it's what I've seen in my state and around me growing up. My father couldn't get help when we fell on hard times, either -- at least not from the government. Thankfully we had extended family that was willing to sacrifice to help when we needed it.

luvmykids replied:
I get it, I was raised that way too, not to the extreme that you were but I get it. Believe me, going to the government WAS a last resort. Our families could only help so much wink.gif

I know you're just trying to make yourself clear, but it feels like you're assuming a lot about people who don't have coverage. And if there is anything I've learned in the last year, it's that sometimes crap happens and no matter how prepared you thought you were, you can be caught off guard. Maybe it won't happen to you but to assume that the situation we found ourselves in was lack of preparedness or being in denial feels a little unfair to me sleep.gif

ZandersMama replied:
There is alot of situations where it can't be done. In my situation only one person can work. Thats me. And I simply don't make enough. I had supplemental insurance until my ex husband moved out. All but Zavier, who is uninsurable because of a pre - existing condition. (prematurity believe it or not ). I had to give that up so I could afford electricity.

I'm not trying to start a war here, i'm just saying that in some situations universal health care is very important. Without it I could not survive. And not from a lack of effort on my part. I work, only part time because Zavier is not allowed in a daycare setting (doctors orders, weak immune system) but i work as much as i can get a sitter for. I make sure my kids are fed, clothed, and warm. Yes i do need a hand from the government, but i'm doing the best that I can. And I don't feel that I am getting handed everything by the government while other people are working hard. I work very hard. I struggle. But I make it work. And there are alot of other people in my situation. I am sure there are people out there like the ones you describe, but there is alot of us to that we get out head above water and get stomped on.

I have no luxurys. I shop at thrift stores for myself. I only have internet because my childrens father lives on the other side of the country and without it they can't see him. It is paid for by him. (gee i guess he is good for something, who knew) He has traveled back and forth since before we were seperated and keeps the internet going so he can see them when he is away.I have nothing left to cut back on. I need universal health care.

coasterqueen replied:
I don't think I've assumed anything about your position or anyone's. I'm just saying I don't think I should have to pay for everyone's elses coverage. I don't expect them to pay for mine. I know people fall on hard times. Believe me, Ryan and I were there. Like I said I was without coverage for years AND I might add during a time when I was told I had a very serious condition. I didn't plan to not have coverage and I didn't plan to get seriously ill.

lisar replied: Okay I am going to say all of this because this is how I feel on it.

The upper class and the middle class people have been providing medicaid to everyone who is on it for years. I understand some people need to be on it. And thats fine that is what it is there for. However the people who abuse the system because they dont work and are still on it need to get off it. Why should I pay for thier insurance now and then later when they get Universal healthcare. I think there should be a limit on how long people can be on it to begin with. I was on medicaid when I was growing up. My mom was paralyzed from her neck down and no one knew where my dad was. She couldnt work and support us so the system did. People like that NEED IT. So I made the right choices as I got older that I wouldnt raise my kids on the system and i'm not. Its all about the choices you make in life. And I have been a single mother I know how hard it is to be a single mom. And I paid over $500.00 a month for insurance for me and Lexi. It was hard. But I did it. I did without some things. But I did something with my life. So when I hear the whole "but I am a single mother" thing get thrown around and people think its an excuse its not an excuse. You could go back to school and get a degree if you didnt already have one. They have grants just for single moms out there. I know this I was one at one time. I look up to single moms so dont get me wrong. Its hard I know it is. And Zandersmom this isnt aimed towards you so dont take it that way. I have a girl that works for me right now who is pg she is on our insurance so she can get good coverage while pg. But her plan is as soon as she has the baby she is going on medicaid. Why becuase she doesnt want to work. I tell her all the time that the ones of us that do will work will be the ones supporting her childs medical coverage. She doesnt care.
And not just anyone can get medicaid. My mom had to fight to be on it also. People like her is what its for. Not for the lazy ones.

ZandersMama replied:
Thank you, thats what i was getting at hug.gif

Boo&BugsMom replied: Medicaid BLOWS! We see a lot of it coming through the office and it sucks.

My2Beauties replied:
Ditto!

Karen I know what you are saying and believe me Brian and I have fell on very hard times, even here recently and we borrowed money from his mom and dad but it got to a point where we were going to break them if we kept borrowing, thankfully our situation looked up and we're ok again, we had some fortunate events happen money wise, had it not been for that, we'd still probably be digging ourselves out of a hole right now. It's just extremely hard to sit back and watch people like my grandparents who were very VERY well off in their retirement, set for life might I add lose their entire and I mean ENTIRE life savings on hospital visits and hospital stays and meds...then after taking out a 2nd mortgage and loans still not receiving help from the gov't....that irritates me to no end. My grandparents spent the last 5 years of their life stressed about medical bills that medicare should take care of and does not. No one in our family (very small family on my mom's side) has ANY money to help them out the way they needed help. I understand what you are saying, but borrowing money from family isn't always something people can do!! So where would you turn to if you couldn't do that.....ya know.

coasterqueen replied: Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone. I understand people need health care.

What I'm also reading is no one that is FOR it can explain to me how it's going to work. People are so very quick to say "yes, I need it, give it to me" but they don't try to figure out how it's going to work or how it's going to affect everyone else. I've tried to see all sides of this. I'm all for people getting health care. But I also was under the understanding that all hospitals cannnot deny you care whether you have insurance or not. I assumed I was already paying for that with my taxes and such. So why should I pay the federal government to give everyone the same kind of care PLUS I have to pay for having that extra care I once had.

ZandersMama replied:
I'm starting a college course in september for CCA, working in guesthomes. I couldnt before now because Zavier can't go to daycare. I will find out at his 18 month visit if he is strong enough now to be in a daycare setting so i can go to school.

lisar replied:
Good for you. I hope it all works out for you. I know your story I just hate seeing people that take advantage of the situation and I dont see you as doing that. As in you are trying and not just staying home doing nothing about it.

PrairieMom replied:
This is true for some hospitals, but I'm not sure about all. It IS true for mine. And here is a problem with the high cost of heath care.

Say you all of the sudden become Dependant on life support. My hospital can't deny you help, BUT nursing homes can. So, you are unable to go to a nursing home, (which is expensive enough) which means that you are stuck in my hospital indeffinately, at a much much higher cost, not to mention that you would be taking up a valuable hospital bed.

Our system is broken on so many different levels.

jcc64 replied: Where would the gov't get the money to pay for healthcare. Idk, maybe the same place they're getting the money to run this ridiculous war?!


Monica, you are making my point better than I ever could. I think people make alot of stereotypical and incorrect assumptions about who's not covered and why. Thank you for articulating that point so well.

PrairieMom replied:
thats a entire subject on its own. rolleyes.gif laugh.gif

Maddie&EthansMom replied: Yes, I know exactly what it is and no, I do not want it for our country. wink.gif We have very very limited health insurance and we pay cash for what our insurance does not cover. We've had our issues of having to pay outrageous medical bills, but I still don't want it. I don't think it's the answer.

That's all I'm gonna say. This is a sensitive topic and I don't want to step on any toes.

coasterqueen replied:
I am not going to take this as directed at me, but I will say that I am NOT making any stereotypical or incorrect assumptions.

As I stated in my OP - I just don't feel like I should have to pay for others health care. That's not stereotypical or an incorrect assumption.

I also see how you WANT UHC to be. How do you really think it will be, Jeanne? Do you care if you have to pay double for everyone's health care including your own? Why stop at UHC, why not we just pay double for everything? Then we can be just as poor then who is going to pay for us?????

My2Beauties replied:
HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PrairieMom replied: okay, here is the answer.

make insurance companies non-for profit. Regulate them so that they can't refuse to cover high risk patients. put a cap on what they can charge.

This will also mean that there has to be regulations placed on what Dr's and hospitals can charge for services. and caps on the insurance that Dr's have to have to cover them selves.

Those that want to keep their universal plans through their employers can.

This will be paid for by a slight bump in taxes, and yes the middle class will feel it the most, but IMO, it is our duty as those that are blessed to give a helping hand to those that aren't.

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
This is where I'm at with the whole thing. I do understand that people fall on hard times. I don't think Karen is saying that MCD is for the poor and lazy who won't go out and get a job, etc. People do fall on hard times and it's great that MCD is there for those who need it. Sure, it's abused. Scotty and I didn't have healthcare when Ethan was born. But we refused MCD. He worked extra hard to be able to pay the medical bills. We've been there. We've struggled. I still don't want UHC. I don't want him working hard to pay for everyone else's insurance. We work to afford insurance on our family and that's hard enough. I also think that the quality of healthcare will go down on UHC...that might just be me, but that's how I see it.

It doesn't matter if it's healthcare or the war...it all comes out of OUR pockets. Think taxes are high now? Wait til they approve UHC. I'd rather pay for a war that will eventually bring us revenue from the oil that we desperatly need over here than pay for a healthcare system that is going to go down the tubes. Like Karen said, it may work great for Canada, I just don't think America will benefit from this at all.

grandma replied:
I agree with that plan! Tara for President... thumb.gif
Bye I'm outta here... wavey.gif

TheOaf66 replied:
iagree.gif

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
Good plan!!

My2Beauties replied: I agree with Tara too. The cost of an aspirin at the hospital is like $10 ohmy.gif Ridiculous, they need to put a cap on that crap.

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
It's really an endless cycle. wacko.gif They charge so much b/c people don't pay their medical bills. People don't pay their medical bills b/c they are so high. People don't have insurance b/c it costs too much. Insurance companies definitely have the monopoly on all of this. There needs to be a way that it doesn't hit our pockets so hard. I think what Karen was saying is that it will hit us in the pocketbook the same whether we went UHC or not. If we want the same coverage, that is.

PrairieMom replied:
unsure.gif I knew I was brilliant but... really? Okay. I'll run. rolling_smile.gif

MomToJade&Jordan replied: It is fortunate that I don't have to worry about healthcare for my children. They are still covered under their Dad and will be until they are out of school. At this moment I am paying for myself. I am an independent contracter where I work and they don't provide insurance. I am paying for my own and I'm affording it. The only problem is it's not the best. I don't qualify for medicaid and personally I don't want it. I am trying so hard not to be that single Mom who works 2 jobs, but it seems like that is going to come to an end very soon. I am all right with that because I have to do what needs to be done to provide for my children. I have 1 child in school and the other will have to go to daycare. I don't want someone else paying for my health insurance that's not what I'm after. What I want is to not have to worry about where the money is going to come from to pay for the medical bills I will have if something bad happens. Maybe UHC isn't the answer, but something really has to be done about how much we have to pay to stay well. It doesn't seem fair that people are working hard and half of their pay check is going to insurance. I believe that healthcare needs to be made more affordable for everyone.

Cece00 replied:
This is exactly how I feel.

I dont want UC. I dont want to pay MORE taxes for people who refuse to work & support themselves or for people who cant. I'm sorry, but I have 6 people in my family and THOSE people are my priority, not everyone else.

Cece00 replied:
Exactly. I'm worried about taxes being increased a lot because I'll have to pay for even MORE people once UC exists. There are plenty of ppl who CAN afford coverage who will drop it just b/c they dont have to afford it, on top of the people who my taxes are already having to support. I mean frankly, we have good insurance and its not super expensive. I dont want to be worse off after UC because the taxes are more expensive than my healthcare was.

Cece00 replied:
I agree with you 100%, on everything you said.

TANNER'S MOM replied: Okay, I don't think I am for this at all. I mean every one who can afford insurance and works has it right? And the people who don't work or can't work, or are eldery etc, have medicaid. So, how are their uninsured people? That is what confuses me. I know their are employers who are small and don't offer people insurance, I think they should start there. I think insurance should be mandated and premiums more affordable for self employed people. More TAX breaks for people who carry insurance. But I don't think everyone has a whole should pay for everyone who doesn't pull the same punches. And I think their are people who can afford insurance, but say..Well I only go to the doctor once a year, I will just pay out of pocket. We are all adults who can make decisions for themselves.

I do have a good friend who doesn't have insurance. B/c her husbands work doesn't offer health care benefits. She could have insurance through private care, but they won't honor any pre-exiting conditions. That is CRAZY! Get rid of PRE EXITING! For what we pay in our insurance rates, I am sure they can afford too.

As for the hospitals. They have MONEY. They can not deny you care based on money! BECAUSE when all of us who go have insurance and our insurance pays that 80%, they made such a huge profit they can afford to write off a very cases. I mean come on. When I pay 10.00 for one Tynenol and the whole bottle is $3.00.. you tell me they aren't making bucks!

I think we should think about our eldery and how they live, how we are going to retire and live in 20 years. Social Security isn't doing so well either. I think we have alot of issues that need help. But I don't think Universal Health care is going to be something I will like.

I think we need to control and mandate the insurance companies, doctors and hosptials who are over priced for us under paid Americans. How can I afford insurance when gas is 3.19 a gallon! Believe me it's hard!

PrairieMom replied:
There is a problem with mandating small businesses to provide insurance. Dh owns his own business. There are a total of 7 people that work for/ with him. He can not afford to provide health benefits. He has looked into it every 6 months for the past 2 or 3 years, and it is just not financially possible. This last time they were quoted that the business would have to provide $1100 per month per employee for benefits. Lets put that into perspective. I pay 1200 a month for my mortgage. He could literally buy every one of his employees a 4 bedroom 3 bathroom house for what it would take to insure them. growl.gif Why? becuase we are all high risk. One is pre-diabetic, one has blood clot issues, my asthma, not to mention a kid with peanut allergies... the list goes on. Its insane.

As for medicade, I believe you have to financially qualify for those benefits, and the income levels are pretty low, so yeah, you can get benefits, BUT first you have to loose your home, and everything that you worked your entire life to have. I don't think thats right.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: I didn't read anything past the 1st page... so I'm sorry if I'm repeating or saying something totally offtopic from where ya'll are at now...

Living in Canada and HAVING a similar system... we pay based on income. EVERYONE pays. Just like everyone pays into the Canada Pension Plan... anyways... what I really want to get at is that one of the main differences that i see all the time with you americans and us canadians... is that you guys can call your peds for every little sniffle your children have, every little cough that doesn't quite sound like the previous one... and the peds will actually talk to you, or have you come in and they will see you right away.

Here, stuff like that doesn't happen...we can't just call our peds and have him hold our hand when our kids get a sniffle. I'm sorry, i don't mean to offend... but a cold is not worth wasting the doctor's time over. Which is why, when we go to clinics or to see our family doctors, we have to wait, sometimes only half an hour while they finish up with the previous patient, and sometimes up to 4 or 5 hours. The health care system here is provincial - every province has a certain guideline for what they will cover, for how long etc... and obviously some provinces have specialists that other provinces do not, but if you're willing to travel, you can still see them.

It's on a NEED basis here. If someone NEEDS to see a neurosurgeon, for example, they will get in to see the neurosurgeon... and the appointment will be booked based on the severity of the people already booked. If you're seeing a neurosurgeon for something like I had, transient ischemic attacks, well then it's not as "serious" as someone with a brain tumor, for example. You americans pay and get in right away...even if it's something that can wait... and then suffer the medical bills. We have trained professionals who see us and judge how fast we need to be seen. if we need to be seen NOW, we get bumped up. it's not about who can pay more $$ to get in faster. We don't have the doctors at our beck and call, which is why Canada can afford to pay for coverage. Americans seem to have the "gotta have it NOW" mentality, and so continue to endebt themselves in order to see the doctor TODAY. (again..I don't mean to offend...)

And I'm not talking abot those here that have gone in, and there was something wrong... we just have staff that pre-diagnose that, if you will... and so if it's serious, we will be seen as fast as any paying american would be seen by their doctor or a specialist.

I don't think the US would deal very well with that type of system... because like I said... the people in general seem to be too concerned with the NOW. It wouldn't work, at all.

I hope I didn't ffend anyone... sad.gif hug.gif

luvmykids replied:
Yes, on all accounts.

I stated that I'm not for UHC, even as someone without insurance for the last year. I want to pay my own way, I just think it needs to be reasonable.

As a self-employed/business owner, offering insurance was very difficult. We did it, but at great expense and actually in hindsight it wasn't a very smart business decision for us to do so. I'm not in favor of mandating it.

I stick to my original thoughs, that UHC is not the answer but that if they would regulate the health care industry just like they do utilities, etc it would be affordable enough for the average person.

And yes, you can't qualify for medicaid unless you have NOTHING...I tried. And as for the argument about not wanting your taxes to pay for someone elses healthcare, how about when you need it, have paid your taxes, and still can't get it?

coasterqueen replied:
When your Dh was looking into insurance for his employees, was that price what you pay for 100% of the insurance? I wonder, because we are a business of three employees - only two have insurance here. I do not because my monthly premium is cheaper through DH's work than here. Anyways, our work pays 80% of the insurance premium and the employee pays 20%. I'm just wondering if he's looking at it as paying 50/50 or what? There are also many numerous options out there for the small business owner, especially if you are a member of an organization. I don't know your husband's business but just about everything out there business-wise has a trade association you can be apart of. Those trade associations usually offer insurance for all their members & company employees at a cheaper rate. Why? Because the pool is obviously higher than if your Dh's company was to go get insurance for his employees himself.

coasterqueen replied: This thread was to see if everyone really knows what UHC really is, especially before you go voting for someone who thinks it's important but has no clue on how they are going to implement it. This thread wasn't about the answers to the problems, although I agree insurance rate regulation and hospital/doc rate regulation is a huge key as well as pharmecutical rate regulation. I don't think whatsoever that UHC is the answer. I won't vote for someone who thinks it is, either.

I thought long and hard about this topic last night, especially being accused on here of many things pretty much saying I'm heartless and don't think of others. I do, believe me. I just don't think UHC is the answer. Unfortunately there are a lot of bad apples out there that have made many governmental programs have a bad name. Our state has ALL KIDS CARE, which is a free health care insurance program for kids. I've seen first hand the numerous parents who were once paying health care for their children drop that coverage so the government can pay for it instead. Why not? If the government is going to continue to step right up and hold our hand 24/7, why not? I've thought about it, sure. I was taught something, though, as a young child -- PRIDE. My pride would not allow me to do something like that unless it was very seriously needed. I work very very hard and have struggled so much in my life -- and yes, I was without insurance for many years during a very hard medically time in my life. I just don't think it's fair for the government to keep knocking at my door every time they need to fund something for others when I'm trying to get by on my own. Every year I get a raise that raise goes straight to more taxes or higher insurance premiums, etc -- I don't even get to keep up with inflation and the majority of middle class families are like this. IF I continue to let the government keep taking more from me there will be nothing left. This is why I will NEVER understand the democratic point of view. "Bigger government" "More government" "Let's take care of everyone, they don't have to do it for themselves". I am not rich and most think Republicans are rich -- not true. A lot of Republicans just don't want government telling them what to do all the time and holding their hand every second. So if my views and philosophies on things make me a bad person and a thoughtless person of others so be it.

UHC will be the same as any other past program implemented in the past. People will be for it and push to have them implemented - those same people will be the ones to complain about it after it is implemented because they still aren't getting enough from the system.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: I see what you're saying, Karen. happy.gif

You don't want your costs to go up in order to support the people who would drop their private coverage in order to have the government support their arse...thus effectively raising the costs even more. And I don't blame you for being upset.

I feel the same way about unemployment benefits and CPP. I have the pay into the Canadian Pension Plan, which is supposed to be put towards me in my old age...but it's really only paying for the old people NOW... by the time I'm there, the money that I put in for ME will be gone if they cut the plans. Will they refund it? no. Ticks me off every time I see it. Thankfully, being a self-employed contractor, I don't pay into it. wink.gif

Here everyone pays for the same amount of coverage... you can still have extra coverage...prescriptions are expensive... once i had one that cost me 80$... my grandfather had the same one, but he paid about 3$.. you pay for things that are not a need... and you can get private insurance too.

What I am worried about, is that they are doing the opposite here... there are some doctors that will take payment and see you right away. Health care is covering less in these past 2 years than it was before. I hate the Tories..i want the liberals back. Lesser of 2 evils, ya know?

msoulz replied:
I think you are quite on here about our (American) behavior - no offense was intended and hopefully none taken. But this is what we are used to and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. I think we could adapt to another system, but not without a whole lot of fussing because most humans don't like change. It would be similar if Canada went to a private heathcare system, some would like it and some would not.

I wish I had "the" answer to fix the US system. I am fortunate to have decent, on-demand health care but I could adapt to what I know of a system like Canada's. I know many people who are dead-set against it. You can't please all of the people all of the time! But something needs to change. It's crazy.

mummy2girls replied:
i couldnt of said it better!!!!

mummy2girls replied:
here where I am you pay every 3 months a certain amount of money depending on size of family and income. I pay 100/3months( i think thats how much got to recheck and get backt o you) and that goes towards the universal health care we have. In the universal health care it doesnt cover dental or the eye doctor chiropractor etc so i get blue cross to cover those. But if i was to have to pay for jordan nicu stay and picu stay and peds ward stay i would be in sooo much debt. But the 100 I pay goes towards that kind of health care i recieve or my kids recieve)

coasterqueen replied: Shelly,

Again, I'm not sure why you took offense to my original posts in this thread. I have no clue why or how your Canadian system is set up and I'm talking about our American system, so I'm not sure why I offended you regarding your Canadian system. I don't live in your country so I couldn't even begin to explain your system or try to offend you for anything. If you are taking offense, you are taking offense for your own personal issues that are bothering you. I have said NOTHING about the Canadian system or who, why, what, where people are doing with it.

ETA: I had like instead of live. blush.gif

luvmykids replied:
I am 100% with you on this.

PrairieMom replied:
I believe that was the price for something comparable to what I have through my work, which is 80 /20

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
karen, I think she took offense because your proposed Universal Health care is just about exactly like our national health care. You're putting down the american proposed one... but in reality, the one proposed by the US is just about EXACTLY what we have here in Canada. So indirectly, yes, you did mention canada's system... and by saying that the US universal health care would be donkey nuts, you're saying, in essense, that our system is donkey nuts... understand?

I don't think she's taking offense because of her own personal issues, and maybe you're reading too much into this? Sorry... but I'd have been offended too had I not understood your original point. hug.gif

grandma replied: Just as a reference as to how crazy insurance pricing is, for BCBS our company pays $986.71 per month for two ppl (that's not even family coverage), that also doesn't include eye care or dental. If I were to lose this job, for me to get it, the price would go up. It's crazy!

mummy2girls replied:
Thats why i took offence karen...

1.. we'd all like it if we couldnt afford healthcare.. I can afford it because i put money towards it what i meant by not affording is getting a hefty bill of thousands of thousands of dollars of jordan being in the NICU PICU and PEDSWARD. I put my 88 a month towards the healthcare to get the healthcare Jordan recieved...I thought it was 100/3months but i checked my last bill and its 88 a month.

2. saying relying only on gov.. well as a single mom yes I admit i did have to rely on them for a few things and i am not ashamed of admitting it. i guess when us single moms that are hard workers and try thier hardest to not get on welfare are insulted when it comes to getting some help when those that are single moms but dont care to work but rather live off the gov through welfare or whatever arent insulted. It is a sore spot for me...

believe me it took me 5 years to get financial stable enough to not rely on gov for everything!

coasterqueen replied:
I am not quite sure how you can be offended by something you aren't ashamed of. bigthink.gif You would have to explain that one to me. I know I don't get offended by something I believe in or am not ashamed of.


And to all that was offended because I said it would be crazy for the US to do it and that somehow relays back to the Canada system - I don't quite get it. Again, I have NO clue how your system started or why it was set up that way. Were you apart of a society that actually had the healthcare system we do and now you have UHC? If you weren't I'm not sure you could understand my concern of loosing the quality of service we have here in the USA or how I will have to pay DOUBLE just to keep that quality. Also, again, not sure why me saying I dont' think it would work right for the USA means it's terrible for Canada. Our governments are two seperate things and run differently so saying that our government would screw it up doesn't mean I'm saying yours did.

I'm very confused by all of this. bigthink.gif

mummy2girls replied:
ok im done with this topic...

ok im ashamed.. there.. im not offended because im ashamed.... im leavign it at that!

Maddie&EthansMom replied: Karen I agree. I don't get it. Maybe I'm missing something. I don't remember anyone saying anything about Canada. I thought this was about the US. unsure.gif

Shelly, she didn't say you couldn't afford it. You keep stressing the fact that you CAN afford it, so I don't know why this is an issue. What she said was that of course the people who CAN'T afford it like it. I think maybe you are reading it wrong.

And not all people who have govt assistance abuse the system, she meant for the people who DO, this gives them no incentive to do better. There are plenty of people out there who are just content as can be with living off what the govt gives (what us taxpayers pay in.) She never said you were one of those people.

You shouldn't take offfense. I'm sorry that you did, but you should be proud of what you have done for yourself. hug.gif

MommyToAshley replied:
Trade associations do offer group insurance, but there are often restrictions on the number of employees, how many hours each employee has to work, etc. You also have to generate a certain amount of insurance premiums each month. It's not as simple as join a trade association and you can offer insurance to your employees.

Mel, you asked how there are so many uninsured people. It's not the elderly or the poor that are uninsured, it's the middle class that doesn't qualify for assistance but yet can't afford to pay $1,000 each month for an insurance premium that they might not ever use. We were self-pay for a long time. We now have just an HSA, which will only go into effect if something major happens.. we are basically self-pay for everything else.

Again, Obama talked about making insurance affordable through lowering the cost and not making it madated. Most of us don't call this UHC, but he did. So, I'd like to know more about his plan. Even though he may be calling it UHC, from what I heard it is not what most of us would call UHC.

I am not completely against UHC at this point, but I want to know the details before I jump on board and say yes or no to any plan.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
That's Troy and I! Screwed either way. dry.gif

coasterqueen replied:
I agree. I don't think I ever stated it was as simple as joining a trade association. I work for a trade association. I know how these things run. We are also part of a bigger trade that does offer the group insurance. From attending several meetings on this for out trade association, it was under my impression that it wasn't as complicated as your stating it, but I'm sure all trade associations and the type of insurance they offer differ across the board. I was simply stating that it's something not to dismiss. There are things out there to help, if needed.

coasterqueen replied:
I know how hard it is on the self-employed or small businesses, but in the interest of being self-employed it is something you weigh your options on before doing.

My sister and I have weighed the options of running a daycare and there were many factors that came into play as negatives/positives and having to pay for our own health care and the high payroll taxes were one of them. It's a sacrifice you make to be self-employed, though.

coasterqueen replied:
Thank you, Aimee. I, for one, have not been able to get my point across without offending, which isn't my intention. Thank you for trying to get it across for me.

hug.gif

My2Beauties replied:
Thank you Dee Dee, I was going to answer this question for Mel. Mel, there are millions of uninsured people (middle class people like you and me) who can't afford the healthcare even through their own employer because of their own bills (some employers rates are still outrageous) but they make too much to be on Medicaid and are way too young for Medicare. I'm telling you guys, Medicaid is an absolute joke. You have to literally be living in poverty (IMHO) to be approved for it. My friend makes $8.50 an hour and works at Speedway gas station, she has two children, she cannot get Medicaid and her work does not offer insurance, even to full time people. sad.gif It's just things like that, so she works 60-70 hours per week to make ends meet. She can't go to school to better herself because she works all the time to pay her bills....it's an endless cycle. She has tried to get into programs for nursing home type nurses (I don't know the correct terminology here) but the class schedules didn't fit in with her work schedules....it's just really sad sad.gif

I'm not saying Canada's form of UHC is perfect for the US, even though I think it's a pretty good system, but the current one we have is horrible and I personally hate it because it's ruined so many people's lives that I am close to. sad.gif I was uninsured for a very long time as was Brian and it's no fun. He got a kidney stone while he was uninsured and it cost us over $4000 for 5 hours in the hospital.....who has $4000 laying around???? Honestly, middle class people for the most part live pretty much paycheck to paycheck. We might be able to save a couple hundred per paycheck but expenses come up every few months (clothes, things for the car, things for the house, etc...) and that money is gone. I just don't understand how someone could say such and such's child doesn't deserve healthcare because he/she didn't get a good job, they didn't bust their butt....when no one knows he/she's situation. I'm sick of seeing kids go without medical care, I honestly just think it's selfish to not want to pay a little extra money for the greater good. End this endless war that we are pumping billions upon billions of dollars into and we'll have some funds for UHC or a form of it.

Rocky, you make a right on point about us Americans, we want everything right NOW, I have a runny nose, I'm going to the doctor's office and they wonder why Americans are addicted to prescription pills, why we are immune to antibiotics etc...I know this happens in other places but it's a huge problem here, our docs can see us right away for a little bit of pain that we may have that a friggin Ibuprofen 800mg might take care of and they wanna prescribe someone Percocets, Valiums (sp?), Loritabs, etc....puhlease! It's all about $$$$$$$$ here in the US, it's all about money! Something needs to change.

My2Beauties replied:
So does someone give up their dream of running their own business just because healthcare sucks for small business owners?? How fair is that??? sad.gif

PrairieMom replied:
Its not even a issue of what is fair and what is not. This is where the Health care debate spills over onto the economy. So, if people are discouraged from starting their own businesses, then where does that take us? and its not just the business owners, its also the people that work for them, sometimes because there are no other jobs out there for them.

Its all very complicated, and every person has their own personal reasons for being in the situation that they are in, There are no simple answers.

coasterqueen replied:
Um, no. People give up dreams for various reasons. I gave up my dream of being a SAH mom so my kids have a roof over their head, so they have a college education fund, so they have insurance, so they have everything - health care insurance costs are NOT the only reason people give up dreams. If we all got to pursue our dreams, would any of us be working?????? Should I pursue my dream of SAH with my children and let the government pay for me to sit at home and pursue that dream???????

holley79 replied: Well I didn't have health insurance when I had my car accident. I "made too much money" for assistance with my healthcare. It's the middle class who pay in $$ for taxes who get the shaft on healthcare.

On the flip side of that I do have healthcare now. For our family plan w/ DH's job is 80.00/ month that includes dental and vision. The family plan through my work is 240/ month. Can't afford that plan. I can go to a specialist if I please. I don't have to wait for someone to tell me its ok for me to go to a specialist or put me on a list to see just how serious my illness is. A friend of mine's family is in Canada and his mother had breast cancer. She had to jump through hoops to see a specialist. It was 5 months after she was diagnosed she got to see a specialist. Much too long imo.

I think it should be left just as it is. If you don't have health insurance and have to go to the hospital then just pay 10.00 a month for the rest of your life. I still have medical bills I'm paying on but you know what, I just chalk it up as a way of life.
blush.gif

luvbug00 replied: . [QUOTE]So, how are their uninsured people? That is what confuses me. I know their are employers who are small and don't offer people insurance, I think they should start there. I think insurance should be mandated and premiums more affordable for self employed people. [QUOTE]

my boss doesn't have insurance I do not have insurance and i can not afford it. I end up paying out of pocket for my yearly exams or i go to the clinic depending on my finaces at the time

[QUOTE] Mel, there are millions of uninsured people (middle class people like you and me) who can't afford the healthcare even through their own employer because of their own bills (some employers rates are still outrageous) but they make too much to be on Medicaid and are way too young for Medicare. I'm telling you guys, Medicaid is an absolute joke. You have to literally be living in poverty (IMHO) to be approved for it. [/QUOTE]

that's mee! make to much but not enough.

UH is a big NO in my mind. I am not paying for the health care of anyone but those in my home or whom i deside to donate to. FORGET IT. i make $600 every 2 weeks and with bills and everything I can't even fathom adding healthcare onto the costs. If it was done on income how nice for those in the upper class or those who are sitting on thier tushes ( not refuring to stay at home mom's in my mind that is a severly unpaid job happy.gif ) I get to pay for you to watch wheel of fortune and where is now their modivation to work?

as far as the american adittudes. i've got one.I am not waiting to get into a specialist if i'm paying to be seen you better see me NOW! i don't take my kid for every sniffle but if she needs to get in for what could be chicken pox or an odd bump how is waiting several weeks gonna help? it's not . I just think it's a bad bad idea.

My2Beauties replied:
You're comparing two totally different things, giving up your dreams of not making any money at all to SAH so you could have a roof over your head is different from giving up a dream of owning your own business because you can't afford healthcare for your EE's, people shouldn't have to do that. SAH obviously is an unpaid job, if you can afford to do it (which I wish I could) then by all means go ahead and no I didn't say you should do it and mooch off the government, I can't stand moochers, that's not what I'm talking about. You sidetracked from my point. I know people mooch and take advantage of the system, it's not perfect, I never said it was. I can't stand to see someone doing it, drives me insane. But senior citizens, sick middle class people with pre-existing conditions and children shouldn't have to suffer because healthcare is ridiculous!

coasterqueen replied:
Ok, well like I said earlier. One of my dreams was to own my own daycare with my sis, but because we can't afford our own health insurance AND various other reasons such as liability insurance, payroll taxes, etc, etc it's not feasible. Again, should I ask the federal government to help me pursue that dream? No.

Our Lil' Family replied:
Don't want to stray from the original topic but there are small business grants available for exactly that purpose. Just my .02

Maddie&EthansMom replied: It would be nice if the average person could actually qualify for a small business grant. They are government grants so it's basically the same as qualifying for medicaid.



Tell me about it. My mother has her own daycare. It's been open a year and is not paying for itself yet. Everyone think she must make so much money...payroll taxes are eating her alive. And she didn't qualify for anything. My dad doesn't make that much money, either.

Swood75 replied: Well,tbh I don't know much about the UHC..But,I will tell you that I DON'T have health insurance because I REFUSE to just GIVE away over $300 a month (just for myself)..DH works very hard 48 or sometimes more hrs and 6 days a week every week and has insurance..BCBS COMPLETELY sucks!!! They won't cover hardly anything..So,I just don't go to the Dr..If I get sick,I just get sick...I would love to have the insurance that Lisar has..Sounds like you have a GREAT plan..As far as insurance goes anyway I think it is ALL a big rip-off (and I am sorry if I offended anyone) but that is how I feel..I mean really,(for example) if you go to the Dr alot they jack up the cost..Just like auto...If you have an accident that is your fault they jack up the cost (even though you have been paying $ for all the years you have had it..I just think all ins is rediculous!!

PrairieMom replied:
just out of curiosity, what happens if you do need something? like, say you are in a car accident, and you break your leg, and bruise some ribs.
You would need a trip to the ER in an ambulance, the ER visit, x-rays, probably a CT scan, at least an overnight stay, lots of pain meds, a few different Dr's just to get started. we are talking thousands and thousands of $ here. Do you have a savings plan or something?

Swood75 replied: guess I just better hope and pray that nothing does happen..In the meantime if it were to happen I guess I would just have to make monthly pmts...

TANNER'S MOM replied: Okay, I have insurance alot like LisaR, and I love it. But we do pay for it. Our premiums are pretty inexpensive because Dh works for a large company. The larger the company, the better the deal!

I would also like to say that I read this at work and I read Rocky's post and couldn't reply. I think we as America's do run our kids to the doctor with a cold, and I for one am glad I can. We pay for our health care directly to the provider. We can demand a standard of care for that. I myself am glad someone was there to hold my hand. There have been times that I thought it was a simple cold, but maybe it was something worse. Thank God, I could run my kids to the doctor and have my hand held.

We aren't the kind of people who do run to the doctor ourselves. I haven't been in over a year. But I am the kind of mother who doesn't want my kids to suffer, even if it is for the common cold.

As far as the small business owner goes, I understand completely the trials with that. I have been offered jobs that I would have loved to have, but they didnt' offer the benefits, so then the employer and myself might have missed out on a great oppurtinity. But I still don't think UFH is the answer no matter what. I think it will turn out to be the fiasco that our Social Sercuity will be.

We were discussing this at work, Hillary wants it based on income, I might make this much money but I have 4 kids to support, Dorothy in my office only has 1 child? Should I get a break and pay less then her b/c I have more dependents? Or should she not be penalized b/c I have 4 kids and we should pay the same amount? What is fair there, neither would be fair to me.

I would also like to say that I have used the system. When my Dh got laid off work, we lost health care benefits b/c cobra is a joke. The kids had to go on AR Kids, which is for children who have no insurance, or have lost benefits do to major change, but the parents make to much for medicaid. I still had to pay a co pay if they were sick etc. Of course when Dh was called back to work we went right off it, and back to our regular insurance. I actually had friends who couldn't believe that I went off the program. They were approved for up to five years. I was in shock at that. I was the perfect example of what the program is for, an emergency. But alot of people I know, abuse the program. They say Okay I am approved for 5 years why should I even try to health insurance. I have a free ride. I know NOT all people do this, I know alot of people who aren't like this at all. But the few who do this, cost us tax payers out the rump!

Mommy2BAK replied: all I can say is that I really hope that one day UHC will become feesable for all of us. I don't know how it would work, but I think its more important than some of the other things we are paying for.

Everyone has some really good points! thumb.gif

TLCDad replied: Wow I can not believe how many of you do not know how the USA version of Universal Health Care will be. I was going to reply to this thread explaning it but I figured it was best to start a new topic and which can be found here:
http://forums.parentingclub.com/index.php?showtopic=72229

But to make it simple the universal plan is a like a very large GROUP plan that people like Lisar benefit from now and you never have to leave you current plan it is just to give everyone a chance regardless who they work for and what health benefits they have. Again see my new thread for very detailed explanation. And yes this is a VERY imporant issue to myself.

Tanners Mom made a comment that she has inexpensive premiums because her husband works for a large company and large companies have great group health plans... This is EXACTLY how the democrates plan will be -- a large group plan to compete with private plans.


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