Whoa, what would you do, a hard one

My2Beauties wrote: Staci mentioned to me that one of Desiree's friends said something to her on Easter sunday about some text messages between Desiree and her boyfriend. This girl is one of Desiree's best friends and a cousin, she is 15 in high school and is very protective of Desiree and has let Desiree know a few times when she was acting out or pushing the limit and how she needed to calm down, she is very mature for her age and a mother type figure even though she is so young, she is wise beyond her years. OK so, Staci said that Nikki (Des's friend) walks up to her and says Staci I think you need to have a talk with Desiree about some of the things she and her boyfriend are texting back and forth to each other. Staci said what is it about, Nikki said put it this way you would just be extremely upset with Desiree. Staci said Nikki are they talking about sex...well as soon as Staci asked that question Des walked into the room and they had to shut up about it, Nikki just sort of gave a look as if to say yeah pretty much that is what they are talking about. So, Staci has tried to pick up Desiree's phone several times to check her texts and she deletes everything!! I was telling her that I also noticed the other day when she was on the phone with him, her and I were in the grocery store and she was behind me, she got really quiet and sort of giggly on the phone and was talking so low that I couldn't hear a word she was saying. I also found out, unbeknownst to Brian and I, that the night before Easter she was at MIL's house and MIL and FIL went to Bingo, leaving them alone (Des, Sabrina who is 15, and Kenny and Tyler, Sabrina's younger brother) which I don't agree with, Staci was on her way over there to get desiree though and when she pulled up Des's boyfriend a some of his friends were sitting outside and they all took off running. Staci did not tell Brian or myself any of this when it happened. Des made some crying plea to us that Staci was being mean and wouldn't let her stay at her mamaw's house no more because of her husband (she was playing her cards because in reality it had nothing to with Staci's husband, Des knew this would upset Brian so he'd let her go over her mamaw's house). I am baffled at her behavior. This is why I told Jeanne the other day I'm a little worried about her. So my question is, do I call our phone company to see if I can get a transcript of her text messages? Does anyone know if cell phone companies do this? Do I invade her privacy like that? I mean I talked with Staci about it and she said she may want me to do this but she isn't positive if she wants to invade her privacy like that. I'm at a loss.

my2monkeyboys replied: I don't know if cell companies keep transcripts of messages, as that may be illegal. I would try to talk to her first, though, before sneaking around her phone. That's what I would want my parents to do, anyway. If she won't talk to you at all then maybe try to find out what is really going on. I wouldn't confront her about it, but try to do it in a way that will keep her from going on the defensive. That way she'll be more likely to talk.
Either way I hope you're able to talk it out with her and hopefully she's not making any mistakes she'll regret later on in life.

kimberley replied: i doubt u can get the transcripts but if she chats online, i'd put a chat nanny on and see what she's up to before she makes a mistake she can't undo.

actually, i would try to talk to her first. if she continues to hide it then i would check things out.

i hope you get through to her.

A&A'smommy replied: I have no idea just wanted to send you some hugs!!

Mommy2BAK replied: geez, I don't know what to tell you. Why doesn't Staci try to talk to Nikki some more to find out whats going on?

amynicole21 replied: There is something you can buy that restores every text that was ever typed on your phone. It's never really deleted. I wish I knew what it was. I'm not sure that's the right answer anyway, just wanted to let you know it existed.

Sorry, don't have any suggestions for you. I'm sure a good talk with her would at least let her know you are concerned and that you are watching... I don't know if it would make her stop though.

Cece00 replied: It may be time for her mother to rethink letting a 13 yr old have a boyfriend whatsoever.

~Roo'sMama~ replied: I think I'd try talking to her about it before trying to get the texts - she would probably really resent it if you tried to be sneaky about it. If she lies or just won't talk about it, then I wouldn't feel bad about sneaking.

I also agree that 13 is way too young to have a boyfriend in the first place, but I know some don't feel that way.

My2Beauties replied:
I'm not saying I don't agree, but I'll say I've been there done that as a teen and regardless of whether my parents "let me" have one, I had one anyways, so I'd rather her be open and honest about it than hide it, it's life. I guarantee 75% of kids her age have boyfriends/girlfriends

My2Beauties replied: I also want to re-iterate that I went to a health fair in Nashville over the weekend as well and 30% of teenage girls around that age group are already having sex....so don't say that you will not let you child have a boyfriend....they will sneak

A&A'smommy replied:
I had awesome parents they weren't overly strict or anything BUT when I was 13 I had a boyfriend my parents didn't know about several actually I was very sneaky. Never underestimate what a kid will do to get what he/she wants!!!

Its definitely better to be open and honest about it.. have ya'll sat down talked to her about all of this? Geez I remember those days and the pressure to do things you weren't really ready for

jcc64 replied: LeaAnn-
I think it's kind of beside the point what she is actually texting to this boy- where there's smoke, there's fire. This other girl obviously knows SOMETHING inappropriate is going on. The first question I would ask her is why she feels the need to delete all of her text messages. Forgive my utter ignorance here, LeaAnn, I've never done text messaging and I don't allow it on my kids's phones either. I would tell her, as my dh did with Alec and the internet, that she is forbidden from deleting text messages from the phone. I would let her know that the need to delete things implies that she is engaging in something she knows you guys would disapprove of, and even if you don't know exactly what that is, there's a violation of trust there. If she can't be trusted to follow your limits, maybe she doesn't deserve to have a phone for awhile??
She's obviously in a big rush to "grow up". You're right that you can't necessarily prevent her from having a bf, but as a 12 yo, you guys are still in complete control over her mobility (at least when she's with you). Don't allow her the kind of freedom that could put her in situations that she might not know how to get out of (or want to). At her age, she really shouldn't have that many opportunities to get alone with a boy long enough to be in a bad spot. Just watch the kind of socializing she's doing- and follow up. If she's going to the mall, make sure that's in fact, where she really went.
In my house, amount of freedom is commenserate with trustworthiness. If you're being sneaky, you're gonna get reigned in fast, b/c sneakiness implies guilt, kwim?
Good luck- keep us posted.

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
This is exactly what I was thinking. I don't think she deserves so much freedom as a 12 y.o. She's still a child.

Kirstenmumof3 replied: As a parent of a daughter that is about to turn 13 and has pulled some pretty big stuff regarding MSN. I think you should sit down and talk to her, find out what is going on. I find this works better when you're not really talking about, like going to the mall or making dinner. Have you meet her boyfriend yet? (Sorry if someone already asked). I don't know if you can get transcripts of her text messages, but I think I would look into it. We have all of DD's MSN messages copied to a file that she can't access, but she is aware that we are doing this. I hope things work out!

Cece00 replied:
I dont have a 13 yr old, but how would they sneak if you dont give them the chance to?

If my kid only goes to school & then goes home, and I dont let my kid go somewhere unsupervised @ 13, and I talk with the parents of friends whose house my kid might go to to make sure they arent going to allow that, its going to be next to impossible for my kid to sneak.

I certainly had no chance to "sneak" around @ age 13 with a boy.

Not to mention I'd make it clear as day to my kid if he/she was having sex @ 13, and I found out, they wouldnt have a life, AT ALL, for a long long long time.

Cece00 replied:
I agree.

Except I wouldnt give my 13 yr old ANY opportunities to be alone with a boy.

I think disabling text messaging on her phone is a good idea, too.

or take it away all together. there is no law that says a 12/13 yr old HAS to have a phone & obviously she isnt behaving herself, so if this was my kid, she would be losing that phone for inappropriate behavior.

~Roo'sMama~ replied:
My sister and I weren't allowed to date until we were 16, and so we just didn't, plain and simple. We never would have gone against my parents or sneaked behind their backs. I have to admit that at 13 I was a lot less "grown up" than 13 year olds today seem to be, but I did have my first crush that summer so I wasn't oblivious or anything.

My3LilMonkeys replied: IMO you or her mother should have a talk with her before you determine consequences. See what she has to say for herself - and then determine the appropriate course of action based on what she says and whether you think she's telling the truth.

And personally, I wouldn't automatically assume that deleting her texts is a sign that she's hiding something. I delete all of my text messages as soon as I'm done with them and I have nothing to hide. I also delete or file all of my emails immediately upon answering them - I just hate to have a cluttered inbox.

My2Beauties replied: I am in agreement that she shouldn't have much freedom, I argue this with everyone. Brian has no clue what she can get into as a 12 yo girl, her mom is just now starting to crack down and Des is having a hard time accepting it...big time! She doesn't have any "alone time" with any of these boys that we have known about it, we are just finding this stuff out about her grandma letting it happen, so believe me, we were all fired up when we found out. Brian had a long talk with his mom and jumped her butt over it and Staci forbid her to stay the night there for a long time to come. As far as the text messaging I agree as well, I told both of them she was way too young for a phone, I couldn't believe it when I saw that every single one of her friends had one, I thought Des would be the only one. She is too spoiled but she's not my child...I can only say my piece, things will be much different wtih my kids and I think Brian is starting to realize some things now.

As far as your comment CeCe about not getting a chance to sneak around, honey you're in for a rude awakening, I'm not trying to be mean at all so I'm very sorry if I come across that way. My parents were so up my butt it wasn't even FUNNY, and I literally mean up my butt. They watched my every move, timed me, didn't let me do hardly anything growing up and where did that lead me, sneaking out of the house at 13 and 14 years old at 3am in the morning Don't tell me they can't sneak!!!

Maddie&EthansMom replied: Yeah, I had to laugh about the sneaking. Rule #1...don't ever say your child won't do something. Just be on guard or you're in for a real treat. Kids sneak. It's all part of being a kid. Both of my kids are sneaky right now. I expect it. I just have to think of how to handle it now and when they get older.

coasterqueen replied:
Oh such wise words.....Kylie tries to be sno sneaky now. I'm not sure hardly anyone could say they weren't sneaky around their parents at some point in their life.

jcc64 replied: I'm with you Lea Ann. Don't ever for a second think, "Not my child..........."

luvmykids replied: Whew, that is tough in general but even more when you're the step. I run into the same kind of thing with Nikka all the time but since I'm not her "parent" I get vetoed a lot and it's tough .

I don't have any advice, we're dealing with this with Nikka now. Not quite so extreme but the phone thing is out of control. On vacation all she wanted to do was go in a bed room and talk or text, so we changed the rules for the phone. She was allowed to talk or text for 15 minutes, then had to be off for an hour and at 9pm it was off for the night. I don't know if maybe lessening the amount of time she can use the phone would help, we also kept Nikka super busy.

I know 12/13yos these days are far more grown up than we were at that age but it hasn't swayed me to believe that it means I have to allow her to do everything "most" kids that age are doing

5littleladies replied: LeaAnn, I'm not sure what you should do. It complicates things that she isn't "your" child and that you have her mother to deal with. Certainly someone should talk to her and find out what is actually going on. If it were my child and we did find out they were doing something inappropriate they would be leashed in so fast it would make their head spin. If my children step out of bounds they will lose all privileges and they will have to prove to us that they can be trusted again and will gradually be allowed to have them back. My kids are young and pretty obedient at this point so I have never had to do anything drastic but if and I mean IF anything ever happens they will know there will be serious consequences.

I'm really amazed by everyone who expects their children to sneak around or go out of bounds. I'm sorry but I will not do that. Is it possible that my children will do things that I don't approve of? Of course it is-I'm not naive, but to assume they will is, I believe, a discredit to myself as a parent, and also to them. I am raising my children to the best of my ability to be obedient, moral kids and I do expect them to follow the rules that they are under while they live under our roof and, hopefully, beyond. My parents were very strict, if I strayed one toe out of line I was in for it. But they didn't just have rules for me, they taught me why those rules were in place and what would happen if I were to disobey and, for the most part, I didn't stray. I wasn't allowed to have a boyfriend until I was 16 and guess what, I didn't and Jas was my first. Most would probably call me a goody-goody and that's fine. I have very few things in my life that I regret and I want that for my children as well. And yes, I had a wonderful childhood.

Maddie&EthansMom replied:

That's my point right there. Everyone strays. Nobody is perfect. I do expect my kids to try to sneak and get by with things. Of course I'm raising them to know there will be consequences if they do, but that doesn't mean they won't try. I should only get so lucky if they never do try. If they end up being the teenager I was or the teenager Scotty was then I wont' have a very big job ahead of me. We were good kids as well, but I'm not going to pretend that there aren't peer pressures out there and I will be well prepared when and if my child ever does try to pull the wool over my eyes. It's human nature to want to do bad things. It's against our will to always do the best thing. Kids will be kids. But I'll be on top of them like white on rice if they step out of line. Just b/c I expect it, doesn't mean I wouldn't do anything about it. I refuse to say that it wont' happen just b/c I expect more of them. I can't control them that much. Oh how I wish I could.

Boys r us replied: That age is a tough one. You don't have to leave your child alone for things to happen. A school bus ride home is all it takes..just look up some stats on that! It happens! A LOT!

I perceive Des's boyfriend thing to be one of the types that actually a middle school type thing. don't you all remember? "I'm going with Jon" or "he's going with cindy" It's not about GOING anywhere, that's what "dating" was referred to.
and it didn't mean anything excpet that you were boyfriend and girlfriend and you didn't actually go out outside of school..you just wrote each other notes in school and sat with each other in lunch...now a days, I suppose you just send each other text messages. Everyone had "boyfriends" at 12 and 13..

now..I totally agree with Jeanne! If she's actually going places with this boy or without parental supervision, ya'll need to reel her back in ASAP!!!! She's a child and needs boundries and limitations, she's not capable of making decisions that could alter the rest of her life right now! I whole heartedly agree about the not deleting the texts and if you find any were deleted, take the phone, you HAVE TO follow thru! and you can get a breakdown of how many texts she sent/received per month. And I'd let her know that and then I'd ask her to hand over the phone when the bill comes! That, is not an invasion of privacy. As far as I'm concerned, if you have a reason to question something, there is no such thing as invasion of privacy when you are a parent. That's your job! If she got pregnant at 14 and everyone throws their hands in the air and says, "well I thought she might have been fooling around, but I didn't want to intrude on her privacy by checking her texts to see what she was up to"..then THAT is failing her as a parent! Now, if you have no reason to suspect any bad behavior, then there should be limits on privacy!

You are such a good mama LeaAnn and she is lucky to have you behind her!! Just remember though, she might hate you because of it before she grows up to respect you for it!

5littleladies replied:
Oh I wasn't trying to imply that parents are going to just expect their kids to step out of line and let them get away with it. I'm sorry if I came across that way. I guess I'm just disturbed by the overall feeling that parents don't really have any control over their kids so get used to it. I know my kids aren't perfect and may have things we have to deal with, but I believe it is possible to raise them in such a way that they will respect the rules that they are given and follow them-maybe not to the letter, but hopefully close.

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
Oh gosh that's not what I meant at all. I guess "expect" wasn't the right word to use here. If I'm naive enough to think they won't do anything "bad", then how do I know how to handle the situation if they do? I don't want any surprises. I don't want to tell them "You will never do ______." Because if they end up doing ________, they will hide it from me and then that starts a cycle of lying and deception. I teach them consequences for their actions now and I will continue to do that throughout their life, it's a part of parenting. Like I said, there are things they both try to get by with now and that won't change, the only thing that will change as they get older is WHAT they try to get by with.

5littleladies replied:
Lol! Alrighty then! I get what you are saying.

jcc64 replied: Just want to second what Aimee said. There is a vast difference between being cynical or defeated as a parent and simply being a realist. I prefer to parent with my eyes wide open, and to be prepared should my kids make mistakes or occasionally jump off the tracks. I can only go by own experience. My parents were both high school teachers- I was kept on a VERY short leash- and I was perpetually being scrutinized by all of the other teachers in my school (who happened to be my parents' friends)
I know for a fact that my mom felt pretty smug about me- she was sure I was a 'good kid' and because of all of her rules, felt that she had me under complete control.
But where there's a will, there's a way, and believe me, there was a will. I knew there were consequences, my parents were strict, but I also thought I was smarter than them, and I got very good at sneaking around- claiming to be one place but really being someplace else. I was a very efficient liar- and I justified it by believing my parents' rules were ridiculously unreasonable. All's well that ends well- I do think my parents' oversight kept me from ever going too far, but in no way shape or form were their rules nearly as effective as they believed at the time.
Another quick example. My 15 yo ds' bff has a 99 average in all honors classes, plays 3 sports, is a great kid, and accordingly, his mom thinks he is infallible. A few weeks back, I picked him up from a sleep-over at another kid's house, along with my own kid. He threw up all the way home, and I knew he was hungover. I tried to tell his mother, and she didn't want to hear it, believing it was the mexican food they ate. I know for a fact this isn't true, b/c I got my own kid to spill the beans. This mom didn't want to hear it, b/c she believes her kid has been taught right from wrong, and wouldn't want to engage in such self-destructive behavior. She doesn't want to know, and so, she won't.
I want the best for my kids, but I also want them to know how to function in the world- how to make decisions when I'm not hanging over them, watching their every move. B/c once they're away from me in college, I want to know they're not going to gorge on all the freedom and not know how to handle themselves.

Boys r us replied: Jeanne, it's amazing to me that you and I have ever butted heads on any topic..b/c I right now I feel like you're in my brain saying everything I'm thinking!

Needless to say here, I agree with you completely. I have witnessed the whole good kids gone bad when they get a taste of a little freedom scenario too!! I just think you can't be so gullible to believe kids aren't going to do bad things, no matter how closely you watch them!

5littleladies replied:
I hope this wasn't directed at me (although I suspect it was ) because I am not gullible. I was one of those closely watched kids and, for the most part, I just didn't stray. I didn't want to-I not only followed the rules set by parents, I believed in the reasons and the morals behind them. My parents instilled values in me from a young age, values that enabled me to make wise decisions as I grew up. That is what I hope to do for my children.


ETA: LeaAnn I'm sorry-I did not intend to hijack your thread!

~Roo'sMama~ replied: I totally agree with you Jennifer. My parents raised me to be respectful and obedient, but they also instilled in me the good values that made smoking, drugs, dressing immodestly, and fooling around with the opposite sex things that I just didn't want to do. They didn't have to watch my every move - they knew they could trust me because I trusted them when they told me those things were wrong. I stayed away from those things because I didn't want to disappoint my parents, but also because they had taught me that that stuff was wrong in God's eyes and I wanted to be the kind of person God wants me to be.

ETA: not that I wasn't watched at all. I'm sure my parents did keep a close eye on us, but they didn't make us feel like they were breathing down our necks. And if we had ever broken any of the rules about boys or any of those other things they would have dealt with it in a way that would leave no doubt in our minds as to whether we'd be caught dead trying it again!



I think there is a huge difference between being "up your kids butts" watching their every move, and teaching them good values and expecting them to follow them. If my parents had taken that approach with me I probably would have been pretty tempted to rebel too.

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
This sounds exactly like me. Exactly. The only thing is, I have 3 older brothers who were raised in the same house as I was and you would never know we were even related, much less had the same parents, lived in the same house. They made their own choices and I made mine. The lifestyle they chose never appealed to me whatsoever. I'm trying to figure out why it appealed to them, why they chose that path and will my kids do the same. That's the thing that keeps me up at night. My parents raised all of us with the same morals and values. There wasn't one Sunday morning, Sunday night or Weds night where we didn't attend church. My mother was PTA president and on top of everything we did. My dad was a hard worker, both parents are affectionate and attentive. They supported everything we ever did. They had/have a great relationship...there was never any fighting in our house. But somewhere in there they had their own will, regardless of the "perfect" family life we had. I still don't believe my parents did anything wrong. Someone recently told my mom (in bible study) that it's b/c she was too controlling, in a roundabout way. Funny b/c she really wasn't.

I don't think there is an answer, but I do think that kids have too much freedom these days.

Boys r us replied: No, jennifer. I wasn't really directed at anyone..just a general statement about lots of parents that as a mom of 2 school aged children, I see who ruly believe their kids will do anything wrong!

jcc64 replied: I guess I was just an amoral heathen, then.

holley79 replied: Not sure what cell company you have but one of the parents who was in my office the other day was able to get every single text message her daughter sent and recieved. She's 13, she can have privacy but she seems to be sneaking a lot lately and it's better to know then think of yourself violating her.

Cece00 replied:
Well, considering that when I was 12, 13, 14 that my parents had an alarm on the house with a code I didnt know, and video cameras outside, no, I was unable to sneak around.

Not to mention that I wouldnt have even dreamed of trying it b/c of what my parents wouldve done to me when they found out, and trust me, they would have.

If you REALLY dont want your kids to sneak around & do what they arent supposed to do, there are ways to do it. Just ask my parents

Cece00 replied:

Yep, this is me too.

OF COURSE kids will try & sneak. Thats a given.

But I plan to raise my kids as well as I can, I plan on not giving my preteens a ton of freedom to get themselves into trouble (b/c kids are great at that!), they will have to earn freedom as teenagers, and I am going to be very very strict with them.

I know my kids will get into mishaps. I did as a kid, even with very strict parents. BUT, I was not talking about sex with guys as a preteen, I wasnt EVER allowed alone with a boy at my home, my parents monitored what I was doing, where I was going, called other parents, didnt allow me to go to places they didnt approve of even if my friends were going, didnt allow me to go to houses of friends whose parents they didnt know, etc....you get the picture.

I'm so glad they did, because they kept me out of a LOT of trouble. A LOT. I was a complete angel compared to my friends & really, I wasnt totally an angel (esp around 17)...thats how much "stuff" my friends were into, esp the ones who had parents who just really were not worrying about what they were doing.

I respect my parents a lot for caring about me enough to be really really cautious with what I was and was not allowed to do. I really love them for helping to keep me from making even more mistakes than I did. Plus I never wanted to disappoint my parents. I respect them too much.

Thats what I plan on doing with my kids. I will be really cautious with my kids. I also will teach them what we consider right and wrong, and teach them the reality of the consequences that making bad decisions bring. I've made plenty of my own mistakes, and I dont want that for my kids. Hopefully I will do a good job of keeping them safe.

My2Beauties replied: CeCe as well as some others. We do monitor Des very closely. I think my OP made it seem as if she just runs buckwild which is just far from the case. One person said it's wrong for parents to be up their kid's butts without a reason for it and that would have caused them to stray....my parents did exactly everything you mention your parents did and then some...I still strayed ok This is what scares me. It's good to hear that people expect their kids to do things from the morals and values they are taught but I can tell you first hand since I have a 12 yo stepdaughter, people seriously need to open their eyes. It's fine to expect your children to do good and by all means until they give you a reason not to trust them, then that's all you can do is trust them, but I'm seeing the same things Jeanne is when it comes to these kids, now I've never seen one get drunk before, but I have seen straight A, atheletic, talented, parent's think they hung the moon kids seriously do some bad stuff and I've heard it first hand from Des and her friends. I'm talking engaging in sexual behavior at school.... When you think they are doing schoolwork, kids can get away with stuff believe me. Now...the whole text thing I'm not worried about. We had a long talk with Des, she knows we can pull her transcripts, she cried and everything because she said she swears she has done nothing wrong, she knows we can pull her transcripts which is all the more reason for her not to text anything bad. She said she deletes her texts because she gets so many that her memory fills up fast and she has to delete them anyways to get her next text. I believe her, I honestly do. We didn't reveal our source and for the life of me I don't know why her friend would lie, but I believe Des. She knows we can pull them and she told us to pull them so we could prove that she wasn't doing anything wrong. I actually felt bad because I think she felt accused. She assured us that her "boyfriend" was not talking sexually to her and they have never discussed anything sexual and that is far from being on her mind right now.

Nic, you hit the nail on the head, it's a middle school thing, I go with Dan, I go with Christine, that's my boyfriend. Will you go with me? They hold hands. Des is not allowed to be anywhere alone with her boyfriend whatsoever. We didn't realize Brian's mom was letting her go walking around with him and other friends, they still weren't alone, but heads rolled seriously. Des is no longer allowed to stay the night there anymore for a long long time. Most of the time they walked to the corner (White Castle) and back but still...I don't approve of that, neither does Brian neither does Staci. Des is a good kid, I have to trust her. I believe in her and I hope and pray she continues to keep the lines of communication open. I just wanted to say my piece because I think it was being perceived by a few that Des runs wild or we have no consequences etc.....we do believe me. She knows that we do. The notion that my kid will never....well we'll all have to agree to disagree on that one, I know from first hand experience what kids will do.