cameragirl

lisar wrote: Have you ever tried to buy a gun? Have you ever been with someone while they were buying a gun?

I ask this for a reason.

cameragirl21 replied: no, i've never bought a gun and i'd never accompany anybody buying a gun out of principle but i see what you're trying to get at.
i can tell you i followed the case of the Menendez boys who used guns to kill their parents in Beverly Hills very closely because Erik's attorney, Leslie Abrahamson (whom i absolutely can't stand) is quite prominent in the Jewish community and i was curious to see her in action and i followed the transcripts and the details of the case and i can tell you, as per testimony of the employee of the gun shop that the boys walked in, handed over a fake ID (not exactly fake, it was the ID of a friend of Lyle's) and bought 2 guns, simple as that.
now obviously that's California and the laws may be different here but i also recall, during Hurricane Katrina, that angered citizens of NOLA broke into a Wal Mart and guns were among the items stolen, so clealry Wal-Mart carries guns...i couldn't find pepper spray there but i suppose if i'd wanted a rifle i could have gotten one.
Lisa, i respect you and your ownership of a handgun is your business, not mine...i'm just stating my opinions and asking a question based on an article i'd read that got me thinking...clearly i'm not the only one who thinks that the abundance of guns in the USA is a problem and is at least part of the reason this incident at VTech happened.
my opinions (and that of everyone here) will have no bearing on the continuation, or lack thereof, of the second ammendment, i was just stating my opinions and asking what i believe to be a valid question.
i'm assuming you got your gun in Jacksonville...my dad got his gun in Jacksonville and i just plain don't like guns, i never have and probably never will, i'm more of a flowers and butterflies kind of girl.
that is not to say i'm judging you, my dad, or anyone else who chooses to own a gun, it's just not my thing and it seems, according to the poll, that half of the board agrees with me and the other half agrees with you which means we have a pretty fair and balanced group here where many views are represented and where we can all stand to learn something today that we didn't know yesterday or to see things from a perspective different from the one we normally have.

moped replied:
Wow and she didn't even say why she asked that question yet!!!!

lisar replied: I understand that however in the case you are refering to the place that sold them the guns should also be blammed. It isnt easy to buy a gun. I own about 40 of them. And the process includes a back ground check and a 3day cool off period and a stack of paper work. And if you have ever been diagnosed with a mental disorder you cant buy one at all. And if you are a felon you cant even have one in your house.
However even if you cant buy a gun legally there are other methods to get them.
I do understand to an extent why you belive what you do, however everyone in America might as well get use to it cause they will never be able to pass it to where we cant own a gun, cause they know they cant get ALL of the guns off the streets. All I am doing is trying to show you a diffrent point of view.

msoulz replied: I was wondering about the mental disorder thing. How does this show up in a background check when we have privacy laws and such? I would think those types of records would be private because they are health related.

lisar replied:
Yes that is why there is alot of paper work. And you do sign a release for them to be able to find that out. If you dont sign it you dont get a gun.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
I worked in the Access to Information and Privacy at the Department of Justice for the federal government, and coincidentally, our section got the fantastic job of looking over the tons of paperwork from the Canadian Firearms Centre when they had the Privacy requests.

First off - the people doing the check don't have ALL the info. Here, in Canada - this is how it works:

The police station where the background check for a person is requested will send in a Privacy request to the Ministries. Usually, when weapons are involved, the requests go to RCMP, Health Canada, and anywhere else that may be linked to the person. Like if there's mention of hunting etc, then the request might be extended to say, Environment Canada.

Then, processing assistants (which is what I was) go through the records and blank out all irrelevant information to the request, marking them with sections of the Information and Privacy Acts.

The police stations, really, get an all clear, or not.

For the record, here at least, store clerks cannot request a Private dossier on just anybody. Even the police stations need a signed authorization, considering it's not their personal info.

At least that's how it worked when I was there. I've been out of that department for a couple years though, things might have changed since then, considering all the changes made to the Gun Registry program from the CFC.

holley79 replied:
In the state of FL you have to sign a release form. If you don't sign it you don't get the gun. they all look to see waht kind of antidepressents you are on.

cameragirl21 replied: but the thing is, it's very possible, and quite likely, actually, that a mentally ill person seeks no treatment and therefore there is no information.
to lisar, the OP, i am glad to see your point of view and always welcome opinions from the other side of any argument. obviously, not everyone who owns a handgun is a danger and that is not at all what i meant, i simply don't like guns so i don't like the second ammendment, i guess it's all a matter of personal preference. as stated previously, i do respect you and the fact that you own a gun or several guns doesn't change my respect for you at all.

TANNER'S MOM replied: Here in the State of Arkansas it is hard to get a gun. You have the 3 day waiting period, back ground check that is done thru the FBI etc.

An example, a friend of mine went to buy a hunting rifle. They ran his name and information. He was denied a gun based on the fact that someone else around his age had the same names as him was a criminal. He had to submit finger prints to the FBI and wait to be cleared first before being allowed to purchase the gun. It wasn't so easy for him.

As for the mental issues I have no idea, I don't know anyone with serious mental issues who have ever wanted to purchase a gun.

lisar replied:
You have a point, about someone that hasnt ever got help for a disorder. All I am stating is that it isnt as easy as you thought to get a hand gun. And my concealed weapoms permit was a whole other thing. Much more info tro get that.

my2monkeyboys replied: Just to give my 2 cents....
I understand that there are many people who may not like guns. However, I am concerned over the fact that many of those same people would be thrilled to have the US citizens rights taken away just because they don't like them. There are many things I do not like in this world (for example, offensive things people say on tv, radio, etc), but I would never want to take away their freedom of speech that allows them to say it.

(And for the record, countries where there are no legal handguns have some of the highest violent crime rates ever.)

Mommy2BAK replied:
Well said!

cameragirl21 replied:
would you take away someone's right to have an abortion if you don't believe in it?
this is asked out of curiosity and nothing more than that.

A&A'smommy replied: Okay here is MY point of view and I really haven't had a chance to read the other thread... okay first of all I HATE guns I'm terrified of them, and I have NEVER shot one. With THAT being said I have grown up around guns and practically everyone i know has one.. its the south we hunt, and not for sport we hunt because we love the woods, nature and the good food that has been put here for us to eat. I do not believe they should take away the right to own/buy a gun. And even if they did it would NOT stop people who use them for bad to get them, it would just make it harder on people who use for the good.

Also you can no longer buy guys at Wal-Mart. they quit selling them...

and I know your trying to make a point with with the abortion thing but one has nothing to do with the other IMO.

Jackie012007 replied: If guns were outlawed, manyn families would starve, I can tell you that for a fact. I grew up extremely poor and year-round, we lived off the deer meat my dad stored in our freezer because he hunted, with a rifle. Walmart doesn't sell guns anymore, and it isn't easy to get one but Crl woked in sporting goods and walmart has a half-assed way of selling guns - that is the company's fault. Hence why they no longer sell them now.

I don't like abortion but people have a right to that too. I don't drink and am VERY against drug use, but also think that marijuana should be legalized and there should be no drinking age - restrictions tend to cause illegal and criminal activities, I mean look at European countries, where kids grow up drinking wine on special occasions. They are taught to respect the privilege of drinking instead of being stigmatized - and they don't go crazy trying to get ahold of it simply because they aren't supposed to have it. I did a paper on drunk driving rates and fatalities here vs. countries with no drinking age, and let me tell you, WHAT a difference.

You can't blame guns - you have to blame the people shooting them, and the parents who don't teach their children to respect the gun and the power you wield when one is in your hands.

Kentuckychick replied: Lisar, I'm glad you brought up all of this. Mainly because, the type of waiting period and the way you have to go about getting a gun in Florida is EXACTLY the kind of regulations that I'm talking about making manditory throughout the entire country.

It's not that way everywhere... not at all.

I mentioned this in the other thread, but the killer in Virginia was able to walk into a gun store and back out WITH a gun in 10 minutes (it typically takes me longer than that to wait at the bank and cash a check!) anyway. All they did was run the instant background check which checks for prison record. There was no waiting period and no mental background check whatsoever.

Had there been he never would have gotten those guns.
The security at the school had reported him to police. There was a COURT ORDER stating that he was considered a danger to himself and others. He'd been in a mental institution (though never had to stay in one). There were so many black flags in his record that would have been found if the time had been taken.

But it's not taken in every state.
Again... should there be more regulations in this country when it comes to buying and selling guns??
YES!!!

Kentuckychick replied:
You know, in a way I agree with you... but in a way I'm inclined to say that we can't always blame the people or the parents either. In this situation we could blame A LOT of people... the roomates who saw so many clues, the teacher who knew he was nuts, the school administration to whom he'd been reported MANY times, the court who'd labeled him a danger... but in the end what good does it do to blame any of these people...

I blame his mental illness.
Clearly this was more than a rich punk kid who'd been picked on. This was a very sick and messed up young man who was clearly failed by our mental health system. He should have been institutionalized years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I in no way whatsoever think that what he did is made acceptable by the fact that he had a mental illness... but this just goes to show how much people should NEVER ignore these signs.

I think that everyone on this board would agree that it doesn't matter how any of us choose to raise our children... with guns in the home or without them. Whether we teach them to respect guns or not... mental illness can happen to anyone. If any of us were to see these sorts of signs in our children I would hope we wouldn't ignore them.

my2monkeyboys replied: As for the abortion issue, that is a moral issue of right and wrong, for one, and not a constitutional right for another, so to me those are not comparable.

cameragirl21 replied:
i bring up abortion for a reason--her argument was that my not liking guns is not reason enough to make them illegal. well...how many anti-abortion proponents say that the rest of us can't have abortions because it's against the religion/morals, etc of those who are anti-abortion.
the two go hand in hand--if you don't accept my argument that my not liking guns is enough to make them illegal then don't tell me not to have an abortion because you don't like them or don't believe in them.
btw, i'd never have an abortion, it's just an argument, that's all.

A&A'smommy replied:

one does not have anything to do with another... I wont get into the abortion debate I have HUGE issues with that one.. and I do NOT want that one to get started again!!!

A&A'smommy replied: I was talking to a friend about this because things like this really bother me, like when your trying to get your point across but can't really seem to do so.
Just for kicks, say someone came into your home and they were pointing a gun at someone you love very much and there was a chance you had a gun somewhere close by and you could quite possible get it before your loved one was shot. What would you do? you more than likely couldn't get to them to hit them over the head in enough time, hhis could happen to anyone and I have heard many, MANY stories where things of that nature have had happened. If it was me I would shoot them in the arm or something.. but if guns were banned I wouldn't be able to own a gun but yet this criminal (or mentally disturbed person) who got their gun off the street could easily come into my home and harm my family!!

I have been thinking and have decided that I will learn how to shoot a gun.. for many reasons I would rather not get into right now.

anyway I don't know if that makes sense or not BUT that is MY opinion

Mommy2BAK replied:
That makes perfect sense Jessy!

TANNER'S MOM replied:
Honey my advice to you is.. Don't ever aim for the arm or something. Alot of times when someone is deranged enough to break into your home and harm you they are crazy enough to do anything and being shot in the arm or leg only makes them mad. They say someone on Meth has unnatural strength. They did an article here where they said a man was a meth addict, high on meth. Police officers tried to subdue him. But he had the strength to take on at least 3 trained men and it only made him madder. He kept coming at him. They shot to mame instead of to kill, and he only kept coming at them. They finally had to shoot to kill. If you are ever in a sitution to take a gun and try to protect yourself, make sure you are in the mental state to do it. I know it's hard to think about taking a human life, but don't ever take a gun out unless you are willing to aim to kill. If you hestitate that gives them the chance to get the upper hand and to even take your weapn away. You take a small gun like a 22 hand pistol, shoot someone in the arm and they are high, or even running on adreline and it will only make them mad. That's just my advice. Never aim a gun at a human unless you are sure you can make that decision to protect yourself by all means possible. If you try to do the nice thing, it might not be the right ending for you.

Sorry thats just my advice.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
It makes perfect sense Jessy... my issue with it is that if you have a gun in the house, it should be locked up... the bullets kept separate... not a very quick and easy means of self defense...

Of course I am saying this as a mom of young children who tend to get into things. If I didn't have small kids, maybe I'd view things differently... and I'd consider having a loaded gun kept in the house with easy access, for safety reasons...

it's all about the "if"... of course with that scenario, if I had a gun and a chance to shoot the danger... yes, I would do it, no hesitation. If I was put in that situation.

A&A'smommy replied:
oh yeah and ours are guns are NOT alloud in my house loaded and before they leave hunting they normally (say normally because they have shot a deer from the truck not sure if they were coming. going or changing spots) unload the guns but I know they are ALWAYS unloaded before they come back into the house and then gun and bullets are put away and in seperate spots.. (i'm super SUPER paranoid about things like that).

cameragirl21 replied: with regard to the abortion issue--it's a supreme court decision so it is comparable to a constitutional right AND it's my constitutional right as a woman to decide what will happen to my body, so they are comparable IMO.

Kentuckychick replied:
It does make sense... I don't think too many people have been arguing that you shouldn't have guns in your house period. (haven't seen anyone arguing at all really, just stating why they wouldn't have them in their house).

In your case, I think you have a very GOOD reason to NOT have a gun in your house. You have a responsibility to the parents of and the children in your dayhome and I for one would be furious if I found out my child was staying in a dayhome where their were weapons, even locked away. They would not be going there anymore for certain.

And as an individual who did not grow up in a house with guns, nor did my brothers and we won't have guns in our homes. I feel the need to defend this. I can tell you now that none of us had a fascination for guns when we came upon them because we hadn't been exposed. We knew what they were, we knew they were dangerous and we knew that under no circumstances were we to touch them... and hey, we didn't. We respected them as objects that can kill in an instant. I can distinctly remember going to my great grandfather's house a few times in my childhood where he had rifles hanging on the walls and in his room (not locked at all) and we walked past those rifles dozens of times those days and never once did any of us touch them. So I just want to point out that it is possible to gain a healthy respect for guns (we never feared them, we just didn't care) without touching/shooting/handling them. We had toy guns (hunting guns not handguns) but we rarely played with them.

And also, as these same kids who grew up this way, I have a younger brother who graduated from Duke last year. Last spring he was sitting in front of his apartment in his car talking to my mom on his cell phone when he said something to my mom about rolling up the windows and a guy walking down the street, a few seconds later my mom heard him say something and the phone went dead (didn't hang up... but she couldn't hear anything). She hung up and told us she knew something was wrong. We kept telling her to call back but she wanted to wait a second. He called back about 10 minutes later in tears. Turns out the guy who'd been walking down the street had walked up to his window, asked for the time and then pointed a gun at him and told him to give him his wallet. Thank God David did what the guy said and he left at that. Turns out he'd been trying to START the car when he was talking to my mom, not roll up the window, because he didn't trust the guy, but he couldn't get it to start. Later on my dad asked him if he'd feel more comfortable if he'd had a gun. He said no. He said he knew in his heart that if he'd even tried to pull a gun on someone like that he would have been dead in a heartbeat. So honestly, even having a gun for protection isn't going to do a lot of good a lot of the time.

punkeemunkee'smom replied:

That is exactly why we always have had and always will have weapons in our home. IF it ever is (and I honestly pray that it NEVER is) a matter of my family or someone intent on hurting them- I will not hesitate to protect my loved ones.

cameragirl21 replied:
i'm sure a fertilized ova in my body is not in a position to argue its constitutional rights. there is no scientific substantiation that any fertilized ova is anything more than just that--a fertilized ova. therefore, it has no more consititutional rights than any other cell in my body, or yours for that matter.
you can't legalize morality, which is precisely why you get to have your guns even though i am morally opposed to it and i get to have my rights to legalized abortion even though you may be morally opposed to it.

Nina J replied: I agree with the last thing you said, Jennifer

I think guns (and abortion) is just one of the things people have to agree to disagree on.