guilt guilt - over whelming guilt
boyohboyohboy wrote: HELP!
andrew broke out with a terrible rash all over his body last night, it was so red like a hot sun burn..he was crying and crying..i took him to the dr today, and was told that he tested positive for blood in his stool, and the dr felt that it was more then likely a milk allergy. and with our history of what we went thru with jake, that it was probably going to get worse, unless i really restricted my diet..
and that was almost impossible for me, he also said that it might not be milk, and unless we started the allergy testing now, which i dont want to do at such a young age, we might not know what allergen is.
so he encouraged me to start alumentin formula. i stopped breast feeding an hour ago, and i am miserable, really just feeling guilt. i know its for the best for andrew. i mean his intestines are already inflammed if there is blood present..and we dont want to get to the point like jake was with the GERD and passing blood and throwing up. and this way he isnt so old that he cant adjust to a bottle and formula.
i also keep trying to tell myself that at least he got 6 weeks of breast feeding. he got some immunity.
but i still feel so awful.
i could use some encouragement please. this was a hard choice. 
~Roo'sMama~ replied:  I'm sorry Stacy! Don't feel guilty ~ you're doing the best thing for him.
amynicole21 replied: I'm so sorry you're having such trouble.  I'll keep BOTH of you in my thoughts.
CantWait replied: Stacy I'm so sorry. You truly did what you could for him.
My3LilMonkeys replied: I'm sorry you have to go through this. There is no reason for you to feel guilty - you are doing what is best for him. You should be proud of yourself for BF while you did.
mammag replied: Don't feel guilty. You're doing what is best for your little guy. Nothing at all to feel guilty about.
gr33n3y3z replied:
mysweetpeasWil&Wes replied: I think you are doing the right thing. No need to feel guilty.
boyohboyohboy replied: this is such torture. for us both i think.
andrew has taken two 2 oz bottles today both for dh, he wont take anything for me.
he has cried and truely screamed for the entire day.
i have broken down and nursed him a little bit two times. i just feel so bad for him.
and i know he is in pain due to the milk proteins causing pain in his stomach, and a lot of the crying is he wants comfort and nursing was comfort as well at nutrients..
its just so hard.
has anyone ever had to stop breast feeding abruptly like this? is it worse to just do it once in a while while he is getting used to this, or is it torturing him more, is it best to just go cold turkey?
i dont know what to do.
i literally have cried today as much as him. this is horrible.
i think its worse because this is my last baby, and now to have nursing taken away is so unfair.
lovemy2 replied: I had to stop the nursing abruptly - it wasn't going really well but Dylan was having major tummy issues - thankfully he didn't get to the point where there was blood in his stool but we were headed that way - it was hard cause I really had wanted to nurse with Dylan - I didn't with Olivia but in the end - knowing that he had gotten about 6 weeks of BF and that the alimentum made such a huge difference for him made me feel less bad - I would think that if he has such a sensitivity to milk that you BFing him even if it is comforting for him it is probably making him more uncomfortable in the long run - hang in there - you are doing a great job and doing the best you can -
msoulz replied: Aw Stacy, I am so sorry. Hang in there and know you are doing what is best for the little man.
boyohboyohboy replied:
christine, how did you get dylan to take the bottle? i cant get andrew to take it, dh has tried and tried. he just screams, this formula smells so bad i cant imagine how it tastes....
lovemy2 replied:
It may have been easier for Dylan to take the bottle because he wasn't nursing real well anyway - so the bottle was just overall easier on him so he didn't have a really hard time - plus he was starving - I agree the alimentum does smell horrible but it does work -
What kind of bottles are you using? Maybe try to experiment with that? I know the Avent are "supposed" to be the most like breast but I found the nipples to be so big he had a really hard time getting a good seal on them - I went to the Ventaire and then Dr. Brown's because Dr. Brown's as wierd as they look really work for air/gas issues -
Good luck hon - it can't be easy.....
PrairieMom replied: I am so sorry. I deffinately know how it feels to not be able to BF when you really really want to. I quit nearly a year ago after huge struggles with it and still to this day can't stand to look at my breast pump up in the closet.
We needed to try lots of different nipples before we found one that Al would take. she finally took one that is made by gerber I think, and is really funny shaped with a hole in the bottom so you have to position the bottle just right. Sorry, I wish I could remember what they were called.
boyohboyohboy replied: so far, we still have not successfully managed to get much formula in him.
andrew has taken about 4 oz in two days, i am nursing when he doesnt take the bottle just because we cant get him settled down any other way.
we tried the advent bottles, venti something, and the playtex ones.
how many times do you try a bottle or a certain nipple before you go onto the next one?
i am working right now with mostly breast mik and just one dropper full of formula in the milk, to get him used to it, but he still knows its there.
the only bottle he accepted was plain breast milk...
lovemy2 replied: What about cup feeding? I would be leary of giving him more breast milk if he already has blood in his stool - what does your Ped say? I can imagine it is horrible to see him cry like that but the outcome of additional milk in his system could be worse - when nursing was so hard for us - I just remember them saying he won't starve - get miserable yes but not starve - maybe try giving him the bottle right from the breast - like settle him on your brest - take him off and give him the bottle -  I wish I could help more -
A&A'smommy replied: Oh honey I'm SO sorry!!! I hope it starts to go more smoothly for you and Andrew!!!
PrairieMom replied: The NUK nipples at this link are the ones that Al finally used.
http://www.gerber.com/prodcat?catid=439
boyohboyohboy replied: the dr said to try 50/50 breast milk and formula to try to get him interested in the formula, but that stuff is so strong even one dropper full in the breast milk over powers it.
it stinks i think he smells it to.
i have tried to leave the room when dh feeds him so he doesnt smell me.
when jake was having all his issues, they kept saying, babies wont starve, they eat when they get hungry enough, but he never did..he dehydrated and got really sick.
andrew isnt having enough wet diapers today. he has had only two little ones since this am. if he keeps this up i am going to have to call before tomorrow.
i tried to take a med. dropper and drip it in him just to get it in, but he spit it out..over and over,
if he isnt eating and isnt drinking all that hysterical crying is going to cause him to loose weight.
this is just a night mare.
i am giving him the breast milk as an alternative to nothing..but not until we have exhausted our options each time.
there has to be a trick to this, i mean most woman do go back to work at 8 weeks and so they ween them to a bottle at 6 weeks..how is this done?
Boo&BugsMom replied:
DON'T feel guilty Stacy!!! Both my boys were on Alimentum and both eventually learned to love the stuff, so hang in there!
boyohboyohboy replied:
oh, jennie how long did this take? and how did you get thru the hard part of getting them to take this stuff?
boyohboyohboy replied: do you guys think it would help to use a bottle with a larger nipple hole? i am using the smallest one right now, but maybe a larger whole would give him the sense of a let down, and thats much more then this little hole gives out..i just didnt want to choke him.
Boo&BugsMom replied:
Tanner was easier. He was just happy to get food.  Aiden was different. He is harder to wean from things....except for the breastfeeding.  He wanted anything but me. *sigh* But I think it took him a good week to get use to the stuff. He would eat it irregularly off and on, but after he got use to the taste he was ok. If he doesn't like the Alimentum, you could also ask the doctor if you can try the Nutramigan (sp?). It is basically the same, but I have been told they have a different taste than each other. Aiden hated the Nutramigan, so he could tell the difference in taste. After about a week though he was good with the Alimentum, if my memory serves me correctly. That was a phase I wish to not really remember.  I feel your pain, although probably not as intense as what you have been through.
Boo&BugsMom replied:
Stacy, you brought up a good point. Tanner and Aiden preferred different nipples. Tanner liked the square-ish ones, and Aiden likes the rounder more natural ones. Perhaps it's the nipple on the bottle that he is not fond of?
ETA: Tanner also liked a faster flow and Aiden likes the slower flow. Maybe it's a matter of getting the right flow that he likes?
boyohboyohboy replied: our dr did say we could use the alumentin or the nutramigen, either one, it was just the sample he gave us to use...
i have one more nipple to try and then i am going to try a faster flow and see if that helps..
its been a long night and day for all of us..this constant screaming is hard even for the kids..
Calimama replied:
PrairieMom replied: Just a thought, have you tried swaddling, tipping him on his side and jiggling him lightly while sushing him? ( the 5 S's) that always worked to calm Alexis down. Esp if he is freaking out so bad, maybe he is sensing the your stress, which would make him stress, and maybe if he could calm a bit he would eat better? I can't imagine your household right now.
boyohboyohboy replied: swaddling is helping at night, although we thought that it might hinder his ability to expel the gas?? did you find that to be true? we let him out of it and he stretches and then just passes gas like you wouldnt believe..
but other wise he gets fussy at the same time each morning, and this is what relieves him.
PrairieMom replied:
I don't know, my kids didn't really have a problem with it. Al was super cholicy and had gas all the time, but I didn't notice if swaddling made it worse or not. I think it may have actually helped her to have something tight around her, I used to wrap her super tight. Each kid is different tho, its so hard to say.
boyohboyohboy replied: thanks guys for all your help and getting us thru the weekend....
redplaydoh replied: I have a friend from another board that is going through this right now... I've copied her post from there so you can see what she's doing. If you'd like I can give you her email as well.
He said he thinks she may have an allergy to the breast milk protein (as in, allergic to my milk) and I should stop nursing. I was so upset. Then I started sending emails. To the local LLL leader, and my LC. Needless to say, both were very quick to say that it is extremely rare for baby to be allergic to mama's milk, and it is almost always some food in mom's diet that they're reacting to. Unfortunately, I have already cut all of the top 8 allergens except wheat, so I think he doesn't know where to go from here. We are seeing an allergist for testing in a couple weeks, and also a ped GI dr. I am NOT stopping until someone can prove I am harming her more than helping.
boyohboyohboy replied:
thank you for this..
I have never successfully cut everything out of jakes diet, so i am not confident that i can do it to my own. and I just cant put andrew thru the testing this young, as well as the GI issues that are coming if we dont stop this now. so I am ok with the decision I made to stop breast feeding, although it does break my heart. I wanted to do it much longer..but in the end I think it will all be worth it.
I know at some point andrew will go to the allergist and get a work up, but for now at this age. (he is 5 weeks) I just cant put him thru those blood draws.
so far we have not been successful. I have been breast feeding him just because I was at my wits end from sunday..but this am we have renewed efforts, and I have used the dropper to get the formula in him once he refused the bottle this am again.
I am calling the ped once he opens to ask for advice.
although I think he is going to say just keep at it.
but I am not going to give him anymore breast milk. I know its causing him pain, so as mad and upset as he is getting i have to keep that in mind. this is for the best.
lovemy2 replied: Hang in there Stacey - you are DH are doing a great job - I know your frustration with a child who you know is hurting but you aren't really sure what to do or how to go about it - I went through it with BOTH my kids - it will all come together and you know your child best so just keep doing what your gut tells you along with the advice of your Ped We are here if you need anything
msoulz replied: How is Andrew doing today? Is he taking more formula? Are you feeling better?
DansMom replied: Oh, poor little guy and poor mommy
Stacy, if you decide you want to keep breastfeeding, I found this article by a woman who did the "total elimination diet" and her struggles, in case it's helpful.
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/10/07...9_3510_6_07.txt
Obviously, this isn't something everyone can manage. It can't be easy to eat only four foods all day every day.
Whatever path you take, I hope your beautiful boy will get some relief and outgrow any problems quickly.
boyohboyohboy replied: I have just been out at the store while a friend has been trying and trying to feed andrew from the bottles. i have been out purchasing every known nipple there is. he just hasnt given in yet. he has accepted one ounce today.
Thanks tracy for that article. I wish I could do that diet, but i dont think i can realistically.
we are still trying really hard to get this formula in him. i wish it didnt taste and smell so bad. if someone wants to make a million, maybe they could invent something for these allegeric kids to eat..
i called the dr and got some ideas on how to get him to suck on this nipple but he wont..he is smarter then all of us.
its still not going well. and i dont even want to let myself think about him losing weight and not eating right now.
My2Beauties replied: I am so sorry you and your poor baby boy are having to deal with this. 
lovemy2 replied: Do you think it could be something more than him just not wanting to take a bottle - maybe he is in more pain/discomfort than they think or something else is going on? Or no cause he does BF fine - I so wish I had the magic answer for you -
boyohboyohboy replied:
he was breast feeding so well.....he was actually gaining so much weight! and he latched well right from the start.
and when he was getting so upset yesterday all i had to do was put him to it, and he quieted right down and ate...
he really hates this bottles...and formula
the dr's office is at lunch they are my next call today.
i was thinking of trying a lactation consultant too, but i wasnt sure if they could help since we are stopping bfing....what do you think?
Boo&BugsMom replied: Stacy there is a formula you can buy, but you need a prescription for. A little guy I use to care for awhile back, who was about 4 months old at the time, was on it. She use to get it in cases that came in little boxes, like a juice box. It was not something you could get over the counter. She had to order it with a prescription from the doctor. This boy was allergic to wheat, dairy, eggs, soy, and other things. I would ask the doc about it. She had to go this route because even the over the counter stuff was not ok with him...someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe there is still "some" soy or milk in the hypoallergenic stuff over the counter.
lovemy2 replied:
Yes I believe it is soy oil that is in the hypo otc formula -
Stacey - I know I have seen at Babies R Us or maybe that One Step Ahead catalog a contraption (sorry don't know what else to call it ) that you actually WEAR - so the child thinks they are breast feeding but they are actually drinking from something that you are adding the liquid too - hence the formula....does that make sense - I have no idea how to post a link but found this when I googled breastfeeding simulators
"Try using a breastfeeding simulator — a milk reservoir that empties through a small tube positioned on your nipple. The baby sucks both the tube end and your nipple, at the same time."
Don't know if that helps or adds to the confusion but I would DEFINATELY call the LC - maybe they can help you get him on the bottles or know of ones that may work -
boyohboyohboy replied: i finally called the ped. and he wants to see us. i also broke down and breast fed him. he has taken in so little today and has sobbed all day. and now he is so quiet and happy. he fell asleep,
so this is now my dilema..
the dr that saw him on sat. said, that the blood that he found in his stool, was PROBABLY due to a milk intolerance, there would be no way to know if it was a true allergy with out the testing..so i am wondering, since its been 72 hours without the milk on my part...i have still had some dairy i am sure in some of the ready made foods, but maybe its going better because i have not had the milk...i knw it takes longer then this to get it out of my system totally, but maybe he is doing better on the breast milk due to that..
or what if its not even milk? what if it was something else i had eaten that bothered him and now its gone? then i could breast feed?
i dont know if i should ask to have him rast tested, its less invasive..then we might know for sure if its milk and if we need this formula.
or what if we dont and could go to a soy bases one, that doesnt taste so bad.
jennie, that formula i think you are thinking of is neo cate and it comes in a juice form but it is so expensive that we couldtn do it for jake, and thats what they wanted him on..
but it also smells bad.
we still have some neocate but i didnt try it yet since it smells just as bad.
i am going to ask for a sample of neutramagen today...
i am going for some help today, and will call the lactation consultant tomorrow...
again thanks for sticking with me
jem0622 replied: If I am reading this right....that the doctor told you NOT to bf because of a milk allergy...then you need a new doctor.
All of my kids were allergic. I learned with my oldest DS. I stopped all dairy (which helped me lose weight, by the way), and all was fine.
I am very perplexed and upset. Sorry that the poor guy is breaking out and you feel so bad.
If your intention was to breastfeed, then stop dairy and breastfeed. If you don't want to breastfeed, then don't. Don't beat yourself up. Honestly.
HUGE HUGS
lovemy2 replied: Oh Stacey - you poor thing -
Can they re-check the blood in his stool?
My goodness - I sure hope you can get some answers - KUP
Kaitlin'smom replied: I have to agree with Julie, if you want to BF find a new doc who is will to work with you to figure out whats bugging him. You said he is doing better since you cut milk out, it sounds to me like a LC would be best to talk to and keep away form as much dairy as you can. HUGS dont let one doc stop you from BF unless your wanting to quit. HUGS
boyohboyohboy replied:
he didnt say that its a milk allergy and stop bfing..
he said that the blood is concerning and that it is not common for the cause to be a milk intolerance...
but with our family history I DECIDED to stop the bfing on my own, i didnt want to, but felt that it was best, because chances are that he is allergic to all the foods that jake is, then just stopping milk is not going to help andrew..
and by the time it is out of my system and then out of andrews he could have some more serious issues the way that jake did...
so i am asking to have his stool retested..yes christine, as soon as we get there to night. i am also going to ask about some allergy testing, rast testing that might not be as invasive. i am also going to ask how long to i let him cry and not eat before i bf or do i just not bf any more..?
do i just hold out on the formula till he takes it. and call the lacation consultant tomrrow..asap.
this dr we see tonight is very good, and its a new set of eyes from the ones this weekend so that might be good too.
the rash is definately not better though.
lovemy2 replied:
Try to write down as much as you can about what has gone on over the weekend - it helps to remember things you may forget - KUP and many many
boyohboyohboy replied: writing it down does soung good, i do feel rather frazzeled.. thank you
Kaitlin'smom replied: I am sorry your having to deal with all this, I truly wish the best for you, dont feel gulity for what your doing, more like you should fel good you gave BF a chance and sometimes it just does not work out. As long as its your choise to stop and not being told I applaud you for giving it a go. Who knows maybe the new doc will have more info/advice
boyohboyohboy replied: HE JUST TOOK A BOTTLE FOR ME! IT WAS THE DR BROWNS BOTTLE OF FORMULA, HE STARTED TO FUSS, THEN JUST SIGHED AND DRANK THE WHOLE THING.
I HOPE THIS IS THE START TO THE REAL THING AND NOT JUST A FLUKE..
I ALMOST FEEL LIKE WE SHOULDNT HEAD TO THE DR NOW, BUT I GUESS IF I CANCEL IT THEN FOR SURE HE WONT DRINK AGAIN..
RIGHT?
PHEW, THIS IS A RELIEF FOR ME.
lovemy2 replied:
YIPEE YIPEE YIPEE - WAY TO GO ANDREW AND MOM
I do believe that they won't "starve" themselves 
Keep up the good work Mom - persistence is key - what do they say - it takes 3 days to break a habit - so you had Saturday, Sunday and Monday - talk about textbook
The Dr. Brown's bottles are VERY good - they are wierd looking but do work for the gas/spit up/colic stuff -
Go the Ped anyway - it will give you some peace of mind - make sure he isn't still bleeding and isn't even close to dehydrating....
boyohboyohboy replied: ok here is the update for those of you still with us here! 
andrew has gained an ounce..even though he has been exercising his lungs constantly. they tested his stool, and it was neg for blood today.
she basically told me to just keep doing what we are doing.
i got him home and he wouldnt take the bottle, so i started to nurse him and in the middle of that, i just slipped the bottle in instead, and he never noticed and finished the whole thing..
so what ever works..
here goes another long night....
DillsMommy replied: Keep it up, your doing great. Just hang in there mom.
msoulz replied: Stacy, that is great news. Maybe it was something else and not the breastmilk?
Regardless, the little dude will take that bottle so yipee!!!! 
coasterqueen replied: Glad things are working out.
I had to do the total elimination diet for 4+ months and it was very hard. It was hard for our entire family. We made it through, though, thankfully.
If you do decide you want to BF again, you can do the diet. I know it seems hard, trust me. I cried a lot until we got used to it. You do eat healthier when on it, that's for sure 
Just remember a baby that young can NOT have a milk intolerance (like lactose intolerance). They can be allergic to the dairy protein and the only way to know a 100% is to eliminate foods from his and/or yours. There is not an accurate test for allergy to milk protein. This is what several lactation consultants have told me when we were researching this issue for our girls.
Boo&BugsMom replied:
Yep, that's what I was thinking of. And yes it does smell horrid. That's too bad it's so expensive.
Glad to hear things are better now though. Maybe just elimination in your diet will make it all better, or doing the ole switcheroo!
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