last night with jake - :(

boyohboyohboy wrote: well, I put jake to bed at his normal time, and he went in with no trouble...in about an hour after going to bed, he started to cry, I wasnt going to go in, but his cry sounded funny to me.....when I got to his bed, it was just in time to remove him from the bed before he threw up all over. but after he was done, he was climbing out of my arms to get back in the bed, he wanted to sleep. so i put him in and off to sleep he went....well we assumed maybe it was a bubble from drinking the pediasure before bed, he does drink the entire 8 ounces fairly quickly and falls right to sleep. (he wasnt a good burper even as an infant)....
so we go back to bed, and in the next hour he is up again, crying. I go in afraid he might be sick, and he isnt, but I pick him up and hold him and trys to position himself to get back to sleep again. I put him back, and this went on every hour until 2am....
at 2am my Dh had to leave for work, so I put jake in my bed, he fell asleep and slept from 2-6am. and only woke up because I had to get up to go to the bathroom...

so now I wonder, is the pediasure giving him a belly ache? was he just throwing up from a fit, because he didnt want to be in his bed? or was he sick? did he sleep when I finally put him in my bed because he was happy he got to be with me, or was it from exhaustion of not sleeping all night and being up sick?

I have no idea what to do? So I call the OT?

do i call the ped, and ask what to do? only to be told to break his will? do I ask to see a GI and r/o what ever else it is, and put him thru maybe needless testing?

I can do nothing but cry...its been 5 days now with no sleep, I am at my wits end.

what would u do?

Kaitlin'smom replied: honestly first thing no more pedisure before bed, maybe plain milk or water. It might be whats keeping him up or waking him up. I would try that first.

boyohboyohboy replied: I thought that same thing this am when I got up. I only have been letting him drink it because he is being so bad about eating during the day....he will only eat mac and cheese, and nothing else....I was scared his weight might drop and worried he isnt getting the nutrition he should.
I think I might just give him the pediasure during the day and just water at night.

coasterqueen replied: Oh gosh, well my first gut instinct is that the pediasure is doing something. By what you are describing it doesn't sound like a sleep issue, but rather something physical making him uncomfortable - especially since he threw up. Did he cry for long before throwing up? If not my guess is reflux.

Personally, what I'd do is talk to your PED about seeing a GI or if you don't have to talk to your PED first go straight to making an appointment with a GI. You don't have to make a decision right away on any testing. Go see a GI, tell him/her what is going on and get an opinion, then go from there.

As Megan has gotten older and has had less episodes with reflux she's become a great sleeper. She still has episodes that wake her up, last night she had one, but they are a lot less. So in time if he does have reflux he may get better. Some do and some don't. Megan just seems to be less bothered during sleep than she used to.

I never wanted to do all the testing we had to do with Megan, but she was a very unhappy baby and it killed me to see her that way. It was painful emotionally, but seeing that GI and the feeding team/OT was the best thing we ever did.

You never have to go through with any treatment, but I think it's worth getting a GI's opinion.

DansMom replied: Oh, I wish I knew what to suggest! Maybe try just plain water before bed to see if that helps matters tonight. You were saying recently that you're still not sure about cows milk... am I remembering that right or not? If cutting out pediasure before bed doesn't help, it seems like a GI specialist visit might be a good idea.

Poor Jake Poor mom too!

coasterqueen replied:
I agree with this too, meant to mention that. It could simply be that it upset his tummy before bed and nothing more than that. But with all the sleep problems you've described it could possibly be more, too.

boyohboyohboy replied: if its reflux the ped told me that he would pull his knees to his chest, and he would also throw up...
but he doesnt do that...this is the second time he has thrown up in about 2 weeks his entire life, and I think its due to emotions...I think....

but his cry did sound uncomfortable last night. is there a test for reflux? the last time I asked the ped about it, just because we had no other ideas on why he wasnt sleeping, she just gave us zantac, and said try it, if it works thats what it is, and to me that wasnt a good enough reason to give him drugs. I still have the drugs i think.


if its reflux what other signs am I looking for?

we dont need to see the ped to get a GI consult, but the GI guys wont take calls form regular people, only a dr can make the call. stupid

flirtycuddle replied: There is something called silent reflux where the baby, kid what ever doesn't spit up really but is very uncomfortable. I would call the pedi and tell them you want a GI appointment to get to the end of this. If they won't coroparate then get a new ped. I've had to switch 4 times cuz every other just wrote off how my son was and I knew it was more then just exzema and reflux. Also pediasure used to upset my dd's stomache if I gave her a full can in one sitting so I would give her a can but throughout the day. Also to test for reflux you can do a barium swallow study to see just how bad if any the reflux is

Kaitlin'smom replied: after reading everthign you wrote about his sleeping problems I honestly think its more than not wanting to sleep but more something is bothering him. If changing the drink at night does not do it after a few days 4 or more I say then see the GI

C&K*s Mommie replied:

amymom replied: The best thing I ever did was have Mary Beth see a GI. I so understand the trying other things first. BUT I wish I had not waited. I waited until she was 9 yrs old. I can't repeat it enough The best thing I did with my dd who didn't sleep was see the GI. Monday morning quarterbacking it If I was you, I would see the GI. Zantac did not help MB with her reflux, she did not pull her legs to her stomach and by the time she was 12 mos old she was proficient at hiding her reflux. The test we just did in January showed "damage consistent with chronic reflux" I believe you had allergy testing done right? I would venture to guess maybe a lactose intolerance should be investigated. Different from allergies.

Karen said it best, a consult with the GI does not mean more tests, just another view point. And a specialized one at that.

Good Luck! I wish we all had magic balls so we could know back then what we know now. I wish MB had seen the GI before she was 2 years old. I know he is not necessarily the same as her, but it is an area IMO you should investigate. Your baby is definately in pain, IMO. (I don't mean to sound like I know it, just trying to stress my situation)

coasterqueen replied: Stacey - here's a good link on the symptoms of reflux that I have here at work. Most of my links on a lot of things were erased here at work by accident , but this is one I remember having.

Infant Reflux

Megan's reflux is more silent these days. Hers is weird. When I would nurse her at night you could here her refluxing. It was awful, the sound gave me pains. Ick! Now you tell that it's more silent. You can look at her and just tell when she's refluxing now. Megan never had every symptom and her PED kept demanding that she didn't have it, but gave us a script for zantac anyways because Megan was so incredibly unhappy and we didn't know what else to do. When the zantac wasn't working they wanted to try other meds and that's when we started seeing the PED GI and feeding team. I can't even describe how unhappy she was. It was an awful time in our lives. We were also dealing with sensory issues which probably played a huge part in it. Her docs said her nervous system was so sensitive that she needed constant deep pressure. It was all so very weird considering lots of babies are born at 36 weeks, but my little one just had issues others didn't/don't.

So I think SID is playing some part in his sleep issues, but I think something physical GI wise is going on too. It's hard to tell just by going off of what you are saying.

The test our GI did, I don't remember the name, but they gave her this yucky stuff to drink and then watched her on film as she refluxed. That told us if she was or not.

mom21kid2dogs replied: Sorry it didn't go well again!

I'd likely rule out the physical, drop to water only at night and go from there.

I read a few weeks back a news story that linked parents with sleep distrubances to kids with sleep distrubances. At the time I just laughed 'cause they actually had to pay someone to figure this out but if either of you are poor sleepers, this may factor in as well.

Hope you hit on something that works well at night for both of your sakes!!

boyohboyohboy replied: I have a call into the ped now...
I made a list of all the issues we have with jake.
I also asked for a GI consult, but its going to take a while to get in.
I called the OT girl and asked for some advice on sleeping if it is reflux, to see if there is anything I should do other then raise the head of his bed mattress, which I did now.

I usually dont let jake have pediasure during the day because I dont want it to spoil any appetite he may have, but to see if its the pediasure, I am giving him that today, and water tonight. But so far he has been his happy self.

if its reflux though, why isnt he fussy during the day, and upset at nap time? he takes a good two hour naps two times a day, and does not cry out like at night.

I am also going to call the allergist and see if he was tested for a lacotse intolerance as well as a milk protein allergy. I think he was but I want to be sure.

he does fine with his vit d milk during the day and his fav. snack is cheese cubes. so i would think he would be upset if it was a lactose issue. he does have loose stools, though so I do think milk tends to play some role in this...however it was same for my oldest when he was 2 or 3 he just out grew and it and was fine.

thanks for the advice, keep it coming. I am making a list for the dr. we are not leaving that office until we get some answers this time.

mom21kid2dogs replied: One thing I did think of was to keep track of his night patterns for a while (6 mo to a year). I did this with O and discovered a VERY distinct sleep pattern that revolves around the seasons, interestingly enough. She is a very poor sleeper (light sleeping, numerous night wakes, restless, etc) from mid August to thru November. She does better thru the Winter then gets worse again from March to mid May. I also journaled anything unusual during the day, illness, etc to catch a pattern in it.

After ruling out the physical, you might want to drop one of those two hour naptimes, add in more activity and see if he sleeps better at night. The other thing that is clear with O is that she seriously does not require the same amount of sleep as other children, period. (Neither do my husband or I). She nearly never took a nap after 2yoa, had a wonderful disposition, was very physically active, never had learning issues, etc. As a toddler, she got by great with 9-10 hours sleep. She averages 8-9 now (age 6) and is fine. She also slept less than the average baby. I only mention this because the non issues during the day don't fit a medical pattern well. Like you, it seems like a reflux or allergy issue would cause overall disturbance issues (the kind Karen had with Megan) day & night. He could just be in a really bad sleep phase or you and the OT might need to hit on a thing that helps with whatever they feel his sensory issues are.

boyohboyohboy replied: our ped practice has three dr's...recently a new one was hired a young fresh out of school woman....
has anyone ever asked for a second opinion with in the same practice before?
I dont want to upset my dr's I do love them, but I was thinking a new set of eyes on jake might be a good idea.

coasterqueen replied:
Never feel bad about asking for a second opinion. I've gone over my PED's head MANY MANY times w/Megan's issues. He wasn't happy each time, but I explained to him that it's my child and I'm going to do what I feel is right but I also value his opinion. He was wrong 2x w/her. I still trust him, just sometimes docs can't be the "all", kwim?

I would not, though, get a 2nd opinion from a doc in the same office. That's sort of taboo, at least around here. I just go somewhere entirely different. Usually when I want a second opinion, though, I go for a specialist.

CantWait replied: For some reason in your last post I thought you meant something else (the stuff for dehydration) and not pediasure.

Pediasure really did a number on Anthony. He would get diahrrea everytime after drinking it. It took me about a week to figure this out.

Maybe it is upsetting his stomach.

boyohboyohboy replied: Karen, that article has really made me think.
When jake was an infant he had 6 of those reflux sx.
but the dr said it was due to his behavior, and he had BF to long (i know you hate to hear that) and that we needed to break his will then and get him to eat, thats when he started with the feeding OT.
he had the constant hiccups, freg night wakings, inconsolable crying, poor wt gain, diff swallowing (that they blamed on the bfing) and constant nursing (that they said was him using me as a pacifier) but if you look at it as a reflux issue, he really did have those signs.
I could kick myself right now for not taking him to the GI guy in Jan when we had that appt. Its just he started eating and we thought he was ok now. especially when his weight picked up.

amymom replied: Cheryl hit lots of good points. It is hard to point to a medical issue when they do so well during the day. What we discovered with Mary Beth, and again this is her, not every kid, her reflux bothered her during the day, but she has a high tolerance for pain and would ignore it if what she was doing was more 'important' or interesting. As she got older I was able to finally have conversations with her about why she didn't always tell us when she was in pain, and she just didn't want to complain, and there were more pressing issues in her mind. Like her socks were uncomfortable or her clothes were too tight or too loose or something like that. KWIM I have discovered that she was often awake at night when we don't know it. Then again she is older.

All the reasons you do not want to see a GI are all the reasons I did not see one as well. I just see MB in Jake so much, BUT it doesn't mean they have the same things. Since we have removed almost all lactose from her diet / she has begun to gain wgt, has slept better and is a happier and healthier kid. If nothing else the GI will rule out medical issues for you. I highly recommend it even if you have to wait for months. (Once we decided to go with the GI it took 6 mos for us to get an appt.)

amymom replied:
The ped practice I had worked at had 4 docs and sometimes parents would see more than one doc. You could always say you want the kids to know all the docs. And yes different set of eyes do make a difference. You don't have to say that is why, say you want to meet the new doc, or other doc or whatever. Usually the person doing the scheduling won't even tell the doc you did it.

MyBrownEyedBoy replied: My only advice is to cut the pediasure down. Logan is also a VERY poor eater and I've found that if I allow him to fill up on liquid calories, then he will simply continue not eating. Their little bodies know how many calories they need and cutting the carnation instant breakfast from Logan's diet improved his appetite. He still eats like a bird, but it's a bit more regular.

msoulz replied: Stacy, I would be so nuts by now that I have no idea what I would do. I so admire you for not losing it.

I hope the ped and/or GI gives you something to go on! And I like the idea of looking for a new ped too. The fresh eyes may just see something.

boyohboyohboy replied: I offered no milk products today, and jake refused to eat. I only gave him the pediasure (soy brand) after an entire day of refusals..but no fussiness, or gas, or any signs of what happens at night happened today.

the ped never called back, so I have to call again tomorrow.

and I have the water cup ready for bed tonight...if you have any time left for prayers for this little boy of mine, we could use them . thank you

msoulz replied:

That I can and will do - wish I could do more!!

boyohboyohboy replied: well if I was doubting its reflux before last night fixed that. I am sure now thats what it is, and kicking myself for not seeing it before.
I keep hoping there is going to be some magic bullet today that the dr can do to make him better. watching him suffer in that horrible pain last night, and throwing up was more then i can bare.
we are headed to the dr.

amymom replied: Lots of prayers for that little boy!!! and Mom too!!

msoulz replied: AW, Stacy, so sorry to hear that. I hope those docs can help!! Keep us posted!!

DansMom replied:

boyohboyohboy replied: HI! well I wanted to share our news today. Jake was DX with GERD. They dr said his throat is red and raw from all this throwing up the last three days. he started him on prevacid, but said we night need to go to a stronger dose. llucky for me jake took the pill.
he isnt eating, but his weight conts to rise, he is 21.2 pounds.

he didnt give us the GI consult, he said the dr will want jake on the meds for at least three months before they will do any testing anyway.

so we are scheduled for a return visit in three weeks. until then he said its not going to get better fast.....this is hard to watch.

I just want to thank you all for talking me thru this time. what a great group.

hoosier momma replied: I'm glad you finally got the answers you were looking for.

coasterqueen replied: Glad you got some answers.

BTW, watch him on Prevacid and if he doesn't do well don't hesitate to contact the doc. Megan had yucky reactions to that stuff so we had to go back to Zantac.

Also, his weight is AWESOME. How old is he? I was thinking he's younger than Megan, maybe not, maybe I'm wrong. Megan weighs around 21 pounds now at almost 2 years.

boyohboyohboy replied: Karen you made me feel so much better! jakob is 16 months old the 3rd of march.
what kind of reaction should I be watching for with the prevacid?
I talked to the dr today and he said i could use mylanta on him while the prevacid was starting to work, and i gave him that tonight and he loved it! he sucked it right down!

I am feeling better about things..he hasnt had anything since 6pm so we are going to try that.

MyBrownEyedBoy replied:
That weight sounds great to me too. Logan weighed in at the allergist's office, fully clothed and in shoes at 24 pounds and he's nearly 2-1/2

coasterqueen replied:
Megan cried a lot more on prevacid and had diarrhea. As soon as we stopped using it those symptoms stopped. And yes, you can use mylanta too. Glad he liked it.



And his weight is awesome IMO for 16 months old.

redchief replied: Stacey, Prevacid has been a life-saver for our Katie. At the risk of being my usual opinionated self, I'm going to go down a different road. How are you making out with expanding his diet? Cheesy Mac is no balanced meal. He won't eat anything else wouldn't work for me. I haven't seen the child yet who would starve himself because he wasn't allowed to eat mac and cheese, at least not for more than a day or so.

coasterqueen replied: I also wanted to add Stacey that if you are in any way stressed or he feels your stress while trying to eat he will not eat. This is one thing our feeding team told me and I noticed it was only stressing Megan out. That being said we still struggle daily to get Megan to eat. Some days she eats like a horse, albeit those days are few and far between unfortunately, and then other days she won't eat or even drink hardly at all. It's very frustrating and some days I just want to go into another room and ball my eyes out because it's so hard. I was used to Kylie who was such a chunk and you could never see a bone in her body to Megan who's spine pokes out terribly and needs a size 12 months pants in the waist just to keep them up.

I suggest fixing him what you fix for the rest of the family, but also put something on his plate you know he likes. Better yet, wait to put it on his plate until he tries some of the other things then put that special thing he likes on there.

I wish I had more to offer. Just try not to stress about it as much as you can.

boyohboyohboy replied:
I got him to eat one piece of a peach and a few bites of yogurt.
I have not offered the mac and cheese at all, but some cheese cubes for a snack.
i always offer him what we are eating.

I do think right now the pediasure is curbing his appetite. so its not as serious, he is getting his vitamins and nutrition. although this is not how i want him to eat forever.

the mylanta has helped.

boyohboyohboy replied: karen, the dr didnt give me any idea of a dose for mylanta. i used the usual 1 cc as thats the dose of most of his meds right now.

coasterqueen replied:
Oh crap, I'm not sure if I even remember the dose. I put a call into DH to see if he remembers. I know amynicole21, Amy, used this with Nora too, maybe she or someone else will remember in the time being. I can't get Megan to take it anymore, she absolutely refuses.

Hang in there, hun. As soon as that Prevacid starts working I think you'll see improvements. I would also just try to deal w/his sleep issues the best you can w/o CIO if you can until the Prevacid starts to work and you see differences. Then I'd work on the sleep issues more.

You've got a lot going on with two kids and being pregnant. Just know we are here for you.

boyohboyohboy replied: you are all amazing ! This site has been better then any therapy or MD could have ever been.
I am sleeping minimal myself, because I am up at night just watching Jake sleep (well last night at least). I just cant get over the change in one day. I am in total agreement that I would never try any form of CIO while Jake is sick, and I realize that this is going to be a long process, but after seeing the sucess, I know its worth taking the time. I think the sleep issues are going to resolve themselves as he feels secure and feels that we are helping him. I just cant imagine what he thinks of us , his parents, who havent helped him before now. I understand now how anne marie feels and the guilt that comes with this.
why cant babies be born with voices to speak, so they can tell us what is wrong?

amymom replied: I am glad you got some relief. Now get some rest when you can. This is not the end for you, as you know! There will be ups and downs and he will get better and worse again. There will be foods that aggravate his reflux and the meds won't help through that. Please still get the referal to the GI.

He doesn't think anything at all of you, he loves you unconditionally. He will be fine and so will you. The guilt is really hard to live with, but don't let it run you. You have three kids to care for.

And that baby voice would be nice wouldn't it????

holley79 replied: I hope that he is feeling better. I was maybe going to say not let him have the full 8 ozs.

coasterqueen replied: Stacy,

DH recalls it being 1/2 a tsp, but wasn't sure either.

boyohboyohboy replied: thank you for going to all that trouble karen and getting me that dose, thats about what I gave him last night...I think I am going to give it just a few nights to see if we can get a head of this, and he is taking it only once in 24 hours so i dont think it will hurt...
I just cant say enough how much this board has helped me,