plz just go to bed!

jonnygreenwood wrote: How do you get a 3 year old to go to bed at a regualr time? OUr 3 year old daughter has all but killed our sex life. She stays up so late and refuses to stay in her own bed....usually by the time she falls asleep we are too tired or it has to be a quickie. Then she wakes up in the middle of the night and comes to our bed and keeps us up for another hour or so. We don't mind her sleeping in our bed once in a while but I miss sex with my husband. We've even stopped her from taking naps in the day time but to no avail. She just won't listen when we tell her to go to bed and she cries and jsut gets out of bed and comes back in after we've left her room for a minute or so. We love our daughter more than anything but we both miss the time alone we used to have. I don't know what to do. We haven't been able to have relations like we used to in I don't know how long. She used to go to bed at a regular time but now she just stays up so late and with work and all...well there's just no energy or time for us to be alone. Even when she was a newborn it wasn't this bad.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

MommyToAshley replied: Hello and Welcome!

I am sorry you are going through this, that has to be tough on your relationship.

Since your daughter used to go to sleep at a normal time and just recently started doing this, has there been anything in her routine that has changed lately? I know when my daughter gets thrown off schedule, she has a harder time going to sleep and it takes us a few days to get her back to her normal schedule.

I am sorry I don't have any other advice, but I am sure someone here will have some advice.

I just wanted to offer support and an ear if you need to vent.

FroggyJK replied: You have to be consistent with putting her back in her own bed. And don't give into the crying!!! (as long as she isn't sick).

At the beginning of my current pregnancy I got really sick and my 3 year old was able to get away with a lot. We started having major problems with bedtime and him coming into sleep with us in the middle of the night. Took us a week or two of being really hard on him about it. As soon as he got up or tried to climb in our bed we would take him right back to his bed. They are definitely old enough to know where they should be. They just push the boundaries. There are just some times I really have to show him who is boss and lay down the law. Nightmares are another story. But he still has to sleep in his own bed!

Also, when he was younger we used to put a baby gate up in his doorway that worked for us until he started climbing over it.

Gatalita replied: Helllo there! Nice to meet u. This forum is the best!

I agree when it comes to putting the gate up. I also suggest if she decides to try and climb the gate to put another gate ontop of the 1st one. That is what we have to do to prevent our cat from going outside. She is declawed and we like keeping the door open if it is comfortable outside (we don't have a screen door ). So, it might work... Just beware that the first few times you do that she will throw a MAJOR fit b/c it is something different for her that she doesn't like. Be strong and just check w/o her knowing just to make sure that she is ok. But, try not to go "rescue" her unless she is hurt. It probably will work.

Also, a few other things that u might want to try that I found worked for me when i was a child. ABSOLUTELY "NO" TV ATLEAST AN HOUR BEFORE BED TIME. Somehow the light of the TV does something and it makes it harder for a child to sleep. Don't understand it, but I noticed that it has worked; not just for me but other children as well. Also, try reading her a book b/f bed time and maybe play some soothing music as u put her to bed; something like clasical or something of that nature. It sometimes works.

Those are the only suggestions that I could come up with.

alice&arik replied: I have the same problem with Arik lately too. He just doesn't want to go to sleep. Even if he is in my bed, he will talk and laugh and kick and dig his feet into my legs, which drives me crazy!! I wish I knew a few tricks. I might try the no TV thing and see if that works. Today he didn't take a nap so he fell asleep right away when I wanted him to. I think that he thinks this is a big game. But it has been going on since we've been potty training. Somedays he will wake up from a nap just to go potty, so I think maybe that is the reason.

jonnygreenwood replied:
thanks for the reply My wife posted this and asked me to check as she is too busy...I think the problem is she gives in too much. It happens a lot. Just to stop her from crying she will give in to our daughter's demands when i argue it may be frustrating hearing her scream and cry but if we give in she will think she can just run all over us.

I love my wife dearly but she can be a push over with her. I've tried telling her we just need to pick her upa nd put her back in her own bed but she thiks it's mean and we should just leave her and eventually she will stop.

We have gotten her to go back to bed at a more regular time, usually before 11 instead of well after midnight in our bed kicking and elbowing and laughing and talking...but still she wakes up in the middle of the night, every night and comes in to our bed. I have no problem if she were to have a nightmare or something but this is an every night occurence

We gave our baby gates to her sister who had a baby almost a year ago so we can't use that idea, i have tried closing our door with one of those childproof knobs but then she just bangs on our door screaming and she will get up and let her in.

I have picked her up and put her back in bed but she gets right back out and comes back and my wife will just say she's tired and let her sleep with us. Like I said it's not a matter of me not wanting her to be near us but we need our alone time and we are very tired at the end of the night.

Sorry for the longwinded response...hopefully hearing it come from other women will make it easier to accept and do.

thanks again

FroggyJK replied: Man! I think that is a BIG part of the problem. She has learned that she can get what she wants by crying long enough. Getting her to sleep in her bed at night can happen, but it will not be easy for anybody at first. It could be several weeks before she goes to bed with out a fuss.

I think setting a bed time routine could also help. This is what we do at our house. After dinner is bath time. They get scrubbed up and get to play for a little bit. Then they get PJ's on and brush teeth. We head to the bedrooms, read a story or two, say night-night prayers and a sip of water. Then they get tucked in, get kisses and lights are out. I always tell them "Night-night, I'll see you in the morning". I think that's my little way of telling them that I won't see them for the rest of the night. They are usually in bed around 8:00 - 8:30 (no later than 9:00).

You can still show her that she is loved but that Mommy and Daddy are in charge. There is a difference between being mean and being in charge. You can be in charge without being mean, for sure! Lovingly tell her. "Mommy and Daddy love you and you are going to sleep in your bed tonight". Patience is the key.

If is she is so used to sleeping with you maybe it would help if she had a big stuffed animal or doll to sleep with in her bed. She could still snuggle up to something and feel it next to her when she sleeps.

Good luck! I hope you guys can get your bed back to yourselves soon.

jonnygreenwood replied: Well all has not worked out as well as planned. Mostly due to the fact that my wife has decided to 'just wait until she outgrows it'!!

I wanted to pull my hair out. I know she thinks she can get away with anything if she just cries enough to her mom.

She has 2 brothers, 5 and 7. Their bedtime is 9:30. My wife doesn't think our girl needs one because there wasn't enough room for her at school so she has to wait another year for that so no need to go to sleep with them, even though I strongly disagree. Maybe it wasn't as hard for them to stop coming into our bed because they had each other to sleep with.

THe only good news is a few times my wife had been totally out of it so i just picked her up, put her in her bed and told her she had to sleep in her own bed. She cried off and on for a bit but stayed in her own bed, or would go to her brothers bed. Usually if my wife hears her crying she'll tell her to come in to our bed or something. So it CAN be done, i just gotta get my wife to go along with it.

She does have a big carebear i put in her bed with her before but it didn't help.

I try to tell my wife we just need to be strong and firm and put her in her bed and tell her she HAS to go to sleep, she just can't stay up until late at night and sleep in our bed but she insists we should just wait until she grows out of it on her own.

MomToMany replied: Hi there!

Wow, that's a big dilemma. Your wife needs to know how important a regular bedtime is. I have 5 kids, ages 11, 9, 5 (almost), 2 1/2, and 8 months. They all go to bed at 7:30 pm, except the 2 1/2 & 8 month old. They still nurse to sleep. Kids love routine, so they can know what to expect next. The not knowing can make them act out and be nervous, and they don't know how to cope with those feelings yet.

Your DD won't "outgrow" it. It will only get worse now that she knows how to get what she wants. Dr. Sears has some good ideas on how to deal with these issues.

Good luck. Please let us know how you are doing.

Kirstenmumof3 replied: Start with a bedtime routine and give lots and lots of advanced warning. Example, bath, snack, teeth, story and bed. When she is having her bath say "after your bath it's going to be snack time, then we are going to brush your teeth, read you a story and then it's time for bed." During her snack say "When your finished your snack, we are going to brush your teeth, read you a story and then it's time for bed." We had huge sleep problems with my oldest daughter. She just did not like going to bed. Our Family counsellor suggested the routine thing and giving lots and lots of warning. Also it's going to be rough for the first week or so, but stick to the routine and it should work. When she comes into your bed let her snuggle for a few minutes and then carry her back to bed. Say to her "How about we snuggle for a few minutes and then it's time for bed." Then say to her "Okay now it's time to go back to your bed." My MIL told me this one, apparently my DH did this every so often and they just let him come into there bed and then put him back in his own bed. You and your wife need to be consistant and not stray from the routine. Believe me kids can sense FEAR!

GOOD LUCK!

~KARA~ replied:


Instead of the child proof knob being on your door, put it on your dd's door!
My now 2 1/2 yr old did this too when we put her in a toddler bed. Now she can get out of bed as much as she wants but cant get out of the room. It worked for us so Maybe it will work for you!

DansMom replied: I wouldn't lock a child in a room---emergencies can happen that prevent you from getting to a child, and I can't imagine it helps with anxiety and fear, overall personality development and trust between children and parents. I understand the loss of intimacy issue though. I think there has been some good advice here about taking an approach that is gentle and supportive without "giving in" to manipulation (I really think children "manipulate" for things they really need, so I try to focus on what that need is when I'm irritated by whining and such---In Daniel's case, it might not be that particular toy or video he needs, but just to be acknowledged and reassured or engaged with me in some way). Whatever you decide to do, be consistent with the approach and give it time to work.

Also, you need to agree as parents on how to deal with this or it won't get better. Daniel still sleeps with us because that is where I want him---I prefer to have him with me right now, and I just admit it myself and DH so he knows where I stand. DH would prefer that Daniel be in his own bed, but he's letting me have my way on this one. Perhaps the mommy in your partnership is conflicted about what she wants---she might feel more protective and like her child close to her overnight, as some mommies do. Perhaps just talking more about your feelings about this, without pushing for a particular outcome, would help matters. I wish you the best! It's not an easy issue.

Alice replied:
Hi, and welcome!!

Stop and re-read your posts. She's a three year old, and she's calling all the shots and making all the decisions... not to mention what she's doing to your marriage. Look at all the control she has-- at the age of 3!! Can you imagine what she'll expect as a teenager?

Forgive me if I sound harsh. I know you love your daughter, and it breaks your heart to hear her cry. But I think it's time that your and your husband took back control of your home.

Pick a night for the battle-- and it will be a battle-- to begin. Go into it well rested, since you can expect to have a rough night. Then, at 7:30, warn her that bedtime is in half an hour and from now on, she will be sleeping in her own bed. (If you want to sweeten the deal with some Princess comforters or nightlights, it might help!) At 7:45, give her a 15 minute warning, then a 5 minute warning at 7:55. At 8 sharp, pick her up, let her kiss daddy good night, and take her to bed. If she cries, turn off the monitor for a while. If she gets out of bed, put her back into bed. Over and over. She will, at some point, give up because she's too tired not to. The next day, make a big deal over what a big girl she was, sleeping in her own bed. Repeat the process the next night (you may want to tag-team with your husband, so that neither one of you is the "mean parent" and so that one of you can sleep at a time)

For what it's worth, with the holidays approaching, this isn't a great time, especially if you have some late parties planned. But she's got to learn, and you don't want to give her another month of running the household.

Good luck! and again, welcome!

Maddie&EthansMom replied: You got some great advice. We are going thru the same thing with our 4 year old. We have an infant in the house that I don't want awaken so it is that much harder to control her screaming fits.

I'm the hardball in the family. My DH is the softy. It causes a lot of tension between us. I know how you feel. I see his reasonings b/c he just doesn't want to fight with her and it is easier to give in b/c we all get rest then. But, I look at it as I'm telling her to do something and I want her to mind. Everytime she wins she tests her boundaries a little more. Whether it is bedtime, bathtime, clean up time, dinner time, etc. See what I mean? She needs to know who is boss. It isn't about where she sleeps, it is about discipline and my DH backing me up on that so she knows where we both stand. Right now she knows that daddy will eventually give in (on anything, It just so happens that bedtime is the bigger fight right now.) She doesn't even come to me anymore. She knows that I will say no.

I've thought about a half door instead of a lock that way we can get to her in an emergency. I'm so close to actually doing it, too. Your DD sounds EXACTLY like our daughter. She absolutely will not stay in her room. We have tried everything. We reason with her, bribe her, everything short of being just hateful b/c we are so exhausted. She is so strong willed that she will not back down. There is so much tension in our house right now you can cut it with a knife. DH thinks I do things to make her cry...he doesn't realize she cries anyway and she cries the same with him when he tells her to do something she doesn't want to do. She is ROTTEN!!

moped replied: Hi there

I am sure you are sick of hearing adivce, but I took a course on sleep for children and for me it was my three month old.....it is NOT Dr. Ferber method..........that in my opinion does not work.

This course entailed putting your child to bed before they get overitred (lol) and putting them down awake, this will work for children of all ages......TRUST ME.

Once they are down for the night - they will usually cry, you have to let them cry, if they have cried for 45 minutes striaght you can go tothe dorway (of the closed and possibly locked on the outside) and tell them it is nighttime and see them in the morning..........you can do this every 45 minutes if they are still crying, I never had to do this because Jack only cried 25 minutes the first time I ever put him down this way.............the next night do the same thing and it will be less crying, and by the third night there should be only a couple minutes if any.......they must sleep 12 hours and they dont come out until then............I swear this works if you can handle a little bit of crying. I they are intermitenet criers you cannot do any little checks on them at all, they will understand that it is bedtime, and it is also importnat to put them to bed between 7-8 always......

This has changed my life and I cannot say enough about it - Jack ruled our lives and I finally had to put my foot down - now I am the boss and he is the sweetest little child to be around.......this also includes naps, but I am not sure if daytime napping is your issue as well....

That is my two cents worth.....

Jen

DansMom replied: Well, there's a lot of conflicting advice here. This is just my point of view: I strongly urge people not to indulge the mindset that your small child is a manipulative tyrant that you must subjugate. If your main drive and focus in solving sleep or food or potty issues or anything else becomes controlling/solving the behavior through isolation and punishment, no matter what the cost (and you won't see the cost until he or she is a teenager perhaps), then lock the child in his or her room and feel like you have your life back. I'm not flaming, I'm just saying that I think there will be a cost down the line, and I wouldn't do it---when my teenager is out with friends and gets into a fix, I want to be the first person he thinks of to call for help. If I lock him in his room now and ignore his cries, I don't think I will be the person he calls, I really, really don't. I could be wrong, but that's my belief.

moped replied: Right-O....this is simply advice................you certainly don't have to do any of it!

Thanks

Alice replied:
I don't think any of us meant to give that impression. If my wording implied it, I apologize-- that certainly wasn't my point.

Any family needs to have give and take. Small children need to learn how to have an opinion, and that their opinion matters. But a family is not a democracy. Not everything can be decided by concensus.

Part of our job as parents is to make decisions in the best interests of our children and of our familiy. It isn't healthy for a child to be up all night... not for the child, not for the other children who can't sleep because of the noise (and who do have school in the am), not for the parents who need to get up for work, and not for their marriage. (See original post). So while I personally would have a problem with locking my kids in a room, I can see how someone would turn to it as a solution if nothing else seemed to work.

Positive reinforcement is a wonderful technique... but there must be something positive to reinforce. If the original posters can get one night of peace, they can start over. They can make a big deal over what a big girl she is, and how proud they are and so on. But first she needs to understand that they are the parents, and that this is one decision they'll be making, for her good and the good of the whole family. She can decide the flavor of ice cream for dessert.She can talk them out of meatloaf and into pizza. Her parents get to decide when bedtime is.

I've taught wayyyy too many teenagers who have never heard the word "NO" when applied to them. I have had parents ask me "what can I do?? He/she just won't listen!" I want to ask them: did they listen when they were 3 or 5 or 8 or 11?? Why do you expect them to suddenly listen now??

When my kids are teenagers, I sincerely hope they'll still remember how much I love them: enough to make some of the hard choices-- to say NO and mean it when it counts.

DansMom replied: I definitely see your point Alice---in fact, my mom was permissive to the point that I sometimes felt like my well-being didn't matter to her, especially when I was a teen, so I see what you mean. Thanks for being the voice of balance.

Maddie&EthansMom replied: Creating the perfect balance is so hard. I stress over it daily. I want her to be able to trust me and come to me with anything and everything, but I also want to discipline her in a way she will respect me, but it be effective in the same sense. But, I don't want to be such a disciplinarian that it pushes them away and pushes them to do things out of resentment towards me. KWIM?

For people who don't have these problems with their children it is really difficult for them to understand 'why' these kids do the things they do. No, I dont' think Maddie is a tyrant, but she is very strong willed and will test my will any and every chance she gets. She was born this way. She is not conscious of it..it is her personality. She is very 'spirited' and trust me, I have no intentions of breaking her spirit. I'm very careful of that. But, I do need to let her know who is boss and when she needs to listen and respect my authority. I cannot let her run all over me. Rather it is bedtime or any other time. We have wonderful times together. There are certain days that are harder than others as with any child and sometimes it really is a battle of the wills. Maddie never sees when I am at my breaking point. She never thinks "Oh mom used her stern voice and that means I better mind." If I use a 'stern' voice Maddie gets worse and acts out more.

I have a good book and I really like the suggestions in this book. It is called "Making Children Mind without Losing Yours." Dr Kevin Leman. He uses 'reality discipline' and I guess I need to read it again and put his suggestions into action.

I won't pretend to have all the answers. I don't know what to do. I love my children and I want them to turn into well rounded adults one day. I hope in the process I will have gained their respect and trust for all time. I came from a family with no discipline so to speak and I may be a little too harsh when it comes to discipline b/c of the way my brothers have turned out. (My nephew is already out of control as well.) I think discipline should start early on and it, to me is not a bad thing. Our children aren't born knowing boundaries...it is our job to teach them these things.

Parenting is so hard. *sigh*

jonnygreenwood replied: rejoice rejoice rejoice!!!!

my wife finally did it! Our DD has been going to bed at a regular time for over 3 weeks now! We were doing some crafts one night, painting pieces of wood from the store for our 2 boys teachers and for our daughter to just do. Anyway our DD kept acting up by things like painting on the table, when we said to stop she would just cover it back up with the newspaper and say "you can't see it!"

Then the last straw was my wife was doing the touch-ups on our sons' pieces and our DD kept climbing all over her and and bumping her. It was bedtime for the boys and she said for everyone to go to bed and walked off. I took the que knowing if i just left it when she came back she would most likely not tell our daughter to go to bed so i just snatched her up and put her in her bed. She cried off and on for a bit but finally fell asleep. She got out of bed just once that night and as soon as I heard i came walking downt he hallway, she saw me and ran back to bed to cry for a bit more then fall asleep.

She's been going to bed at the same time as the boys ever since then. I can't tell y ou how wonderful it is!

Thanks for all the advice

Alice replied: I'm so glad for you!!

Don't you wish they came with instruction manuals??? Especially in December??

FroggyJK replied: Woo hoo!!! That is great!