regarding crucifixion - from Holley's post

cameragirl21 wrote: ok, here's the thing--crucifixion was the method that ancient romans used to kill Jews (or anyone they didn't like). Jesus was one person killed in this manner and there were many others.
I don't think for the romans that it was anything personal against Jesus per se (in terms of choosing this method of capital punishment, not in terms of them killing him vs anyone else, obviously that WAS personal) and had everything to do with the fact that they(romans) were barbarians.
If they had another method of killing then Jesus (and many other Jews) would have died in another way.
Like I said in a previous post, I believe free speech is paramount and while maybe this latest tactic of Madonna's doesn't really hit home for me because I'm not a Christian, the thing is that if she chose to sing out of an oven or a gas chamber as a reference to the Holocaust, yes I'd be offended and insulted (and I'd definitely think she lost her mind completely) I'd still support her right to do it although I definitely wouldn't watch it or buy her music ever or support her in any way.
I guess my question is--why does Madonna want to do this? Besides the obvious getting attention ploy...I mean, it's got to be uncomfortable to be strapped to anything and then on top of that to have to sing...?! I personally don't like to be restrained (not that anyone does) so I definitely wouldn't like to even think of doing something like this.
I think personally that Madonna has some serious beef with the Catholic Church and this seems to be her method of taking it up with them. What she should consider is that she's offending far more than just the Catholic Church (in terms of the archdiocese, etc) and upsetting a lot of people, some of them on this board and I'm sure there are many others.
Or maybe that was the point, or maybe Madonna is using this in some perverse fashion to try to get people to question their faith, who knows, it's Madonna so you can never be sure.
But the fact that we're all here talking about it tells me that she accomplished her mission--to rile some people up, do some serious feather ruffling and above all else, to get attention.
It's hard to stay hot as a pop star and be front page news when you're pushing 50....

luvmykids replied: I think the simple fact that she chose Madonna as her stage name was a precursor to all her religious mockings, she has quite a history of it and it's nothing new so I'm not sure why it still does get her so much attention, kwim? But it does, so she does it, and the wheel continues to turn...

I'm not sure if it's a beef with the Catholic church or just an irreverence for traditional religion.

cameragirl21 replied: actually, Monica, Madonna is her real name!
her birth name is Madonna Louise Veronice Cicone (sp?)
So I guess the acorn doesn't fall too far from the tree....

luvmykids replied:
Huh, learn something every day. So take that one off the list of references to religion but still it's nothing new for her to do

Crystalina replied: Madonna was raised Catholic and attended a Catholic school. She may very well have issues with the Catholic church. I attended an "old church" Catholic school and let me tell you there are definate problems with some of those schools. Maybe she blames the religion for the way she was treated? If you look back on very early Madonna videos she has always "mocked" (for lack of a better term) the Church.

holley79 replied: To be totally honest I think Madonna just enjoys the attention. I also think she does have issues with the church that I don't think it should be aired for all the world to see in a blasphemy way. If she went against the rest of the religions in their own countries she would mostly be killed, JMHO.

punkeemunkee'smom replied: The Roman empire did not invent crucifixion it had been used as capital punishment for thousands(some say) of years before by people such as the Myans. The fact of the matter is Madonna singing from a cross minus the religious referance is the same thing as someone singing with their head in a gulitine(sp?) It amounts to a display with absolutely NO point and even less taste. Her lack of respect for the Catholic Church,specifically, is disgusting. Everyone wants to stand behind about her freedom of speech but give me a break IF she or anyone else came on national television wearing a swastika or waving a rebel flag(which both BTW have hoistorical signifigance BEFORE their meanings were twisted),or displaying something disciminatory towards any other group of people,everyone would be crying foul from the nearest mountain top.... I for one am pretty tired of everyone else being able to raise the banner of injustice at intolerance for their mind sets BUT the minute a Christian says something is offensive to our beliefs it is the freedom of speech we are trying to infringe on.....

mom2my2cuties replied: VERY Well Said Abbie -

cameragirl21 replied: Well, Abbie, like I said, I believe in freedom of speech for everyone.
if she wanted to wear a swastika or sing out of an oven or a gas chamber, I'd have to say that's her right.
Yeah, I'd be upset personally and I'd think she lost all good sense but I wouldn't try to stop her from doing it nor would I support any organization that would try to stop her.
There's no question she's insulting the Catholic Church, which I think is entirely her intention, and all Christians, which may or may not be part of the intention but Madonna likes to push people's buttons.
It's the way she always was and the way she always will be.
The hallmark of a free society is that these things, while scorned and frowned upon will be tolerated and that Madonna will not pay for this by losing life or limb as she would if she tried something similar in saudi arabia or Cuba perhaps.

cameragirl21 replied: Tish, it's a wonder how we get along so well offline and on the board because we could not be more different.
But you know I adore you....

Crystalina replied:
The problem is that some people let things get to them. Why do I care if Madonna wants to hang from a cross? Does that make me any less Catholic? Why do I care if Prince Henry wants to wear a Swastika armband to a party? That is why America is so great because what one person does does not affect my life unless I let it. Unless I let it get to me so bad that it upsets me. That person will get what they want then won't they? They won't get it from me.

Example...gay marriages, gays in general, mixed marriages, mixed childeren. To me these are not shockers. I happen to think gay guys are hilariouse and gay couples are great. I happen to have many friends that are from mixed marriages and my children are mixed. Im Puerto Rican and my DH is very white and Irish. Religion plays a part in the gay marriage thing and some people feel very strongly about mixed marriages. Does that make those people right? Some of you may think that these examples are very trivial compare to Jesus on the cross but there are many people who put it all in the same catagory. Do you turn the t.v. when gays are on. (My DH does but I don't )

My point is that most of us don't let these topics bother us. To us they are irrelevant. To others they sleep, eat and breath this "blasphemy" that we call modern day America.

cameragirl21 replied: ITA, Crystal, very well said!
gorgeous kids you've got btw, I often use biracial children in pictures, some of them are just so stunning they almost don't seem real....

punkeemunkee'smom replied: All I can say is You have to stand for something or you will fall for anything....

amynicole21 replied: I'm glad you brought this up actually. I was going to say the same thing in the Madonna thread about the crucifixion but didn't want to start a heated debate. I'm glad this thread has remained calm, too

I think the reason we are so tolerant of "Christian bashing" is the same reason we don't get too riled up about white trash jokes, white men can't jump, can't dance, etc. And while male-bashing is still pretty funny. When you are making fun of the majority, it's really not that threatening. I'm not excusing it, just trying to explain why I think it's tolerated here and why there isn't such a major outcry like there would be if she was singing from an oven or something like that.

And I truly believe Madonna is just looking to revive her deteriorating career with all of this controversy. No other good reason for it.

punkeemunkee'smom replied:

I don't think there is any denying that! Those pointed cones are probably needing alot more support in them than they used to I was thinking about it lastnight-even the Rolling Stones proved their age at the last super bowl-but I still think I am alot more apt to go see an aging man still playing rock and roll than an aging woman