regarding vaccinations

cameragirl21 wrote: yesterday, when i was at my doc's office with my cancer scare, i thought of our discussion here about vaccinations and thought i'd ask my doc her opinions on them. she said that she has a friend whose son was perfectly fine till he got the four in one vaccine, after which he became autistic. in theory i suppose you *could* say it's just a coincidence but she doesn't think so...says the mercury in vaccines definitely is connected to the high rate of autism in children.
she has 3 kids, all of whom are vaccinated, but not on the regular schedule...she said she spaced out all their shots and never did more than 2 at once. said it drives her ped nuts but she figures that the ped will just have to get over it.
she said that it's not just about autism, it can also lead to alzheimer's and parkinson's later in life, at which point i said, "now you're talking about a host of neurological diseases, like...ALS." and she said, "exactly."
in principle, she believes children should be vaccinated or they may get some of these childhood diseases as adults at which point they become much more serious and mumps, for instance, in adulthood could be fatal. however she says she'd never consider the 4 in 1 under any circumstances.
i told my friend Pam, who has a 5 year old daughter who is on a regular vaccine schedule and she said her ped would never agree to that and that many peds wouldn't. i say that it should be the mother's decision, not the ped's and that any ped who would refuse to do this is not a ped i'd want to go to.
this is of course, just my doc's opinion and not meant to start a debate or alarm anyone but one thing i'll say for my doc--she's absolutely brilliant when it comes to medicine...i have yet to pose any sort of medical question to which she doesn't know the answer and she's an amazing diagnostician, which is why i chose to go to her (she's an internist/family doctor) instead of a dermatologist with a skin cancer scare.
just thought i'd share the info with everyone in case anyone is trying to decide about whether or not to vaccinate.

CantWait replied: This has been the debate for quite some time. The fact is (and I know there will be people on the other side of the fence), the pros of having the vaccine far outweight the risks of having it done. These risks are VERY slim. There was a recent study also that concluded that autism is not due to vaccinations. I vaccinate, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

cameragirl21 replied: oh, i agree that vaccines should be done, Marie, i just kind of like my doc's way of spreading them out as opposed to doing them all at once, that's all i was suggesting.

MommyToAshley replied: I am surprised that your doctor did not inform you that mercury has been removed from childhood vaccines. Regardless, I still spaced out Ashley's vaccines.

kimberley replied: we don't have the option to avoid the 4 in 1 shots. it bothers me but i'd rather be safe than sorry. hep b, menengitis and chicken pox are optional, so i skipped them. i am a firm believer in chicken pox parties . i have delayed the MMR for K because Jade had a reaction to it and they just ignored it and that is the one that is linked to autism. there are pros and cons on both sides. i think everyone has to evaluate their risks and make the best decision for their family.

cameragirl21 replied: Dee Dee, she did say that by law it has been, whether or not that is true in practical terms is another story.
this is a potentially hot topic and i'm not trying to influence anyone, just relaying information that i think may be helpful if anyone is on the fence or not sure.
those of you who have gotten to know me know that there are very few things in this world i ever take as gospel or dogma not to be questioned...my doc's medical opinion is one of them.
just wanted to pass on information, not here to debate or make anyone feel like their opinion is wrong.

DansMom replied: I would space them out based on my research, but still think they're valuable. They still worry me and I would take a conservative approach with them. Daniel can't get some of the egg-based ones due to his allergies.

jcc64 replied: I vaccinate much like your dr does- spread out and one or two at a time. Much of what she said mirrors my own beliefs on the subject. Having said that, I don't think she or ANYONE really understands whether the vaccines are truly connected to all of the neurological impairments you mentioned. Much like our recent conversation about the Bible, I think there are plenty of studies on both sides of the equation, and people generally believe or cite the ones that support their own philosophy and disregard the rest as kooky science or conspiratorial (I'm often guilty of that).
Of course, unlike religion, science and medicine is grounded in provable reality, and it's disturbing as a parent to have to figure out all the conflicting info out there. My own paranoid disposition leads me to believe that there is collusion between greedy business interests and the gov't agencies designed to protect us from harm. And I am angry that as a layperson not qualified to interpret complicated scientific data, I feel completely on my own with this decision. But that's the way it is.
And btw, I agree that if you ped refuses to even discuss the issue with you, it's time to find a new dr. Because the truth is, nobody knows.

ZandersMama replied: I have had my boys vaccinated on the regular timeline, simply because the risks of a bad reaction to it are slim. Diseases considered gone for years are reappearing because people are refusing to vaccinate.

grapfruit replied: My Aunt works at the Fischer (sp?) Center in North Andover, Mass. which is a highly rep. school for autistic children and she said that there are NUMEROUS cases of children that are "fine" before vac and literally wake up autistic. They even had a family that was in the process of reversing the vac Don't know how that works but she was skeptical of it anyway. But she says they've seen a clear link b/w MMR and autisum, can't say why or anything, but there's something there. That being said, I would still vac b/c the risk of getting sick b/c you didn't is higher then the risk of autisum...JMO

lisar replied:
I read that the vaccine is not what causes autisim. That it is just councidental (sp?) that at about the same time is when all the kids that are autistic show up. Its just the timming of the shot. Not the shot itself. Most kids dont show being autistic untill a certain age which is when the shot is given. Thats what I read up on it. I have an autistic child in my extended Family. Thats just what I have read up on it. I am not in no way trying to argue with anyone. Just stating what I read. Everyone has thier own opinons on it. And yes I agree this question will start a debate it should have been avoided to begin with. JMO though.

gr33n3y3z replied: http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pubs...m/mmr/index.cfm

kimberley replied:
again, i don't agree with steering away from important topics because we fear they may become controversial. i think this thread is educational. there are MANY people who believe that article that MMR can cause autism.. including a close friend of mine with twin girls, who refused vaccines with a ped's support for their first 4yrs. when she tried to enrol them in school, she had to sign numerous waivers once she found a school that didn't flat out say no.. and then found the girls missing out on a lot of school because they were "suspended" with every outbreak of chickenpox or other childhood illness.
topics like this can provide another side that the person may not have thought of and dispel myths once believed as gospel. there are far more members on this board than we know of. most just lurk.. but they do read the advice and information we provide, so i am glad we can do that.

cameragirl21 replied: Lisa, i did not post this to start a debate i was just passing along information that i received that i think is valuable info for everyone here. of course everyone will have their opinions but i think an educated opinion from a doctor who is also a mom is very valuable information that i thought may benefit someone here.
i certainly don't expect everyone or anyone to change their opinions or vaccination plans based on what i posted, it's just additional information for anyone interested and anyone who is not interested or doesn't agree can either say so or just move on to another topic.

lisar replied:
I agree. Everyone on here is entiled to thier own opinion on things. Of course most of us are all parents. Of course not everyone will agree with things. I was just stating what I had read on it. I havent done alot of research on it I was just stating what I read. I just also think that there are topics that people know will start a debate on here. I try my hardest not to get into it with many people on here. I like everyone. I was just stating that things can get heated, and personally that is the reason I dont start the threads. Thats all. No harm intended. I hope there was none taken.

Nina J replied: Unless I'm wrong, isn't autism a developmental disability. How can a vaccination make a child get autism. I think I'll be skeptical of that until I actually see some proof, I just don't understand how it could be possible.

skinkybaby replied: One of the theories is that some of the ingredients in the vaccines act like a trigger. Their bodies can't handle certain metals and ingredients like a "normal" child's body, and these vaccines are bringing out this disease that would otherwise remain dormant. Or it intensifies the level of autism. Almost (but not quite) like an allergic reaction

Cece00 replied: I dont buy into that whole "vaccines = autism in some children" business at all. I think vaccines are very, very important and should only be avoided if you have a child who absolutely can not get them due to problems they would cause (like allergic reactions, etc). I would never, ever not vaccinate my kids and I personally believe there will be problems down the line because of the number of ppl who are not vaccinating their kids. JMO, of course.

cameragirl21 replied:
autism is something that some people are prone to and some people are not, same with cancer, same with ALS and many other diseases...the question is--what triggers the body of someone who is prone to these illnesses to suddenly develop them?
bottom line is if a child is not prone to autism then the vaccine won't cause it but if the child is then the vaccine very well may and we have no way of knowing which children are prone and which aren't.
i personally think that children should be vaccinated because of the risks of the diseases that they are now susceptible to if they are not vaccinated but i agree with my doc as far as spacing them out, there is no reason to attack a young immune system with a bunch of different shots at once.
bear in mind that vaccines are either live and attenuated or killed, meaning that either it's a live virus, without the factor that causes the disease (think of it as a mosquito without the stinger) OR it's a killed virus (meaning all the components of the virus are there but it's dead and can't cause the illness anymore)...in either case, the idea is to trick the immune system into thinking it's being attacked by the virus itself and thereby building an immunity to it, the same way it would if the person actually had the illness. so there is no question that you are attacking the immune system by injecting the vaccine and when you inject too many at once, it may be too much for a young body/immune system, with or without the mercury. the mercury of course, certainly doesn't help any, it's pure poison.
at any rate, it is of course, up to every individual as far as whether or not to vaccinate and whether or not to do it by the regular schedule or spread out as my doc recommended, i was merely passing along info that i thought may be helpful to some.

punkeemunkee'smom replied: All I can say (again) is IF you have any questions or concerns the best book I have read on the subject is called Everything your child's doctor may NOT tell you about vaccinations It is not pro or anti vaccine just very informative and written by a pedi and a micro-biologist. I could go on and on about this subject but I won't change anyones mind that is dead set in hwat they believe. I will ask tho that respect be shown to those of us who have children who were injured or reacted to a vaccine-until you are there you can NOT pass judgement about the choices that have to be made.....

In responce to the Autisim question...poisioning by Thermosil and several other componants of the vaccines given mimic Autisim symptoms and there are studies looking into the link.....

Brias3 replied: I agree...this is an important topic, debate or not.

Personally, I am a believer in the importance of vaccinations but did look into the pros and cons when I had my first child. We did take precaution to watch closely for any reactions and spaced the vaccinations appropriately as well, but to each his own. There certainly seems to be alot of information on the topic either way you choose.

Nina J replied: I believe in vaccinations, but I've never looked into the pro's and con's. All I know is I can prevent my child getting diseases. If I didn't vaccinate and one of my kids got polio or something, I would feel responsible because I could've prevented it. JMO though..

gr33n3y3z replied: I agree vaccinations should be spaced out and not stacked on top of each other so they better can understand what could cause what if any harm at all to rule out other possable causes.

sweetgirl replied: Jennifer, I think this is a great topic of interest and education. I think people in general will always get offended, but hey thats life!! I thank everyone for the info, and opinions, it is useful. I do believe in vaccinations, but I would feel more comfortable spacing them out. My son is 18mo., I'm fixing to have his 18mo. shots. Peige and Landon

redchief replied:
Just making a point of clarification for the sake of accuracy and so that the members will be able to find the book. It's title is "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations," by Stephanie Cave, M.D., F.A.A.F.P (not a board certified pediatrician, but a board certified family practitioner) and Deborah Mitchell, a medical journalist with no professional experience in microbiology. Ms. Mitchell is a freelance writer specializing in earth friendly medicine. She is hired by doctors to write articles in collusion and has about nine books published mostly focusing on natural health and alternate medicine.

If there is a book called "Everything Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations," I have been unable to find it.

Calimama replied:
Thanks for that information. I was looking for it on Amazon with the wrong title name and couldn't find it.

punkeemunkee'smom replied: Yes,Ed you are correct on the title...It has been 4 years since I first read it and mistakenly combined 2 titles on this subject from my library...I would have to re-read the book to confirm the rest of your comment as I recall her speaking of both mircobiology specialties as well as the children she treats and recommends spacing vaccines out for. As I said due to our need for information I read in excess of 25 books on both sides of the issue and found this one to be both informative and non-biased