spin off of jennies post about CIO - 4 MONTHS OLD

boyohboyohboy wrote: andrew is 4 months old, he is being rocked to sleep, until last night we were using a swaddler and he wouldnt sleep with out it, well the problem was, (and you can relate jennie) my kids are little football stars, this thing was WAY to small for him the velcro would barely touch!
so we switched to a sleep sack last night, and i also started laying him on his stomach, he seems to have difficulty passing gas. this way he was able to wiggle, something he couldnt do in the swaddler, and also pass the gas and go back to sleep. he went from getting up every hour to up about every 3 hours.
he is taking 4 ounces at a time when he wakes and goes back to sleep.
is he at 4 months old, still supposed to be eating at night? I have no idea how much he weighs he goes in the second week of jan to get checked.
I have never done CIO and thats why my kids dont sleep and neither do i!
i want to sleep...
help

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Well what I was doing...is that if they woke up, I'd offer water...if they took it well, then I'd switch the bottle and give them milk\formula\boob...because obviously they were thirsty\hungry. If they spit it out, then they're jhust beign fussy and they'd get the paci.

You're the best judge of your child's eating "habits"... so if you think he's hungry, give him some. If not, then don't...

We did a modified CIO though... i was in the room with them, patting their backs and singing and what not... so I just really didn't pick them up. I guess you could say it was more of a self-sooth learning than a CIO experience...?

Mommy2Isabella replied: No advice as Isabella still doesn't always sleep through the night. I tried putting her on a schedule and she is doing really well, however sometimes she gets up and plays in her room.

I think at 4 months she was waking up once at night, but Im not sure nutrition wise what they need if anything at 4 months in the middle of the night. I know at 6 weeks you can take them down to 1 *middle of the night* feeding ... so I would ASSUME they don't NEED anything in the middle of the night ...

Hillbilly Housewife replied: i don't know about 6 weeks they don't need anything but one feeding...

I'm a big fan of letting the kids show you what their pattern is like before making them stick to it though. I never ever woke a sleeping baby to eat.. and I will never ever do that. I'm not going to throw off their internal system!

boyohboyohboy replied:
I guess you could say it was more of a self-sooth learning than a CIO experience...?

this is the approach i feel more comfortable with. so i just let him cry and pat him or rub his back until he falls asleep again. he can learn to self sooth that way, not rely on my patting to put him back to sleep?
he hasnt taken to a paci, he is trying to learn to suck his thumb but so far hasnt made it.

Kirstenmumof3 replied: I think Claudia was still getting up once in the evening for a feeding. I used to just go by there schedule. I'm not sure about tummy sleeping at that age, I know in Canada there is a big campaign against it. I think that if you think he is getting enough nutrients during the day, then maybe he doesn't need the night feedings.

luvmykids replied: How much does he take at his "last" feeding before you put him to bed? I think it depends on the kid, I know they are capable of going all night at that age but I think it depends on how much they're getting during the day.

PrairieMom replied: I fed Al 2 times in the night until she was about 10 months old. I had a feeling that she was just eating out of habit, but she was so small that I took any chance I could to get more calories into her. At 11 months I finally did CIO, first for one feeding, then for the second.
Ben slept through the night around 3 months, but he was a lot bigger than Al. I guess you just have to read his signs and use your instincts, since all kids are different.

boyohboyohboy replied: i was thinking that 4 months just might be to young. he only takes 4 ounces at a sitting because he doesnt burp well, and he gets a tummy ache and then crys forever..so we do 4 ounces and wait and let him rest and burp and then anywhere from 2-4 more as he takes it..
he is still using the dr brown bottles, as he wont take anything else.
i guess i was just wanting to not miss the window when its time to make him sleep on his own...i didnt do it with caleb, and he never slept till he was three.
and well jake still doesnt.
so i wanted to get it right with andrew.

i do think he seems hungry, but wasnt sure if i was making this become a pattern. if i could get him to stop and then he would learn to eat more in the am and before bed to make up for it. he eats all day long...

Hillbilly Housewife replied: At some point, enough is enough... at 3, it's just habit... and what we did with Emilie (we had LOTS of sleep problems with her) is we would just pick her up, put her back in her bed, tell her again "good night, I love you, we'll see you in the morning".... we did that I think 17 times the first night. Yeah, she cried... but she was 2 1\2, not like she was needing a feeding. She was also the only one that really took to a paci... she bit through it when she was..um..i don't remember actually, she was about 14 months maybe? i don't know. We made HER throw it out, and that was the end of it.

You know your kids best. If you feel he's hungry... then by all means feed him... but, try not to pick him up and rock him etc... so he knows that even though he's being fed, it's still bed time.

CIO doesn't mean not tending to your kids needs. It's just being firm...and like a puppy being crate trained, they will cry and cry and cry...it's the only way they know FOR SURE gets you to them. It's not being mean, it's letting the child know that they can no longer cry for attention...and if they do, you're not giving in.

It's a horrible name for it...but it is what it is. Good luck to you!

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
Yeah... rock him til he's almost asleep, or whatever you do usually...then put him in his bed. He'll wake up, cry etc of course... it's a change in routine... just pat him, sing to him etc... IN HIS BED. He'll cry, try to get up...just put him back down..be consistent.

After a few nights of this, he'll have learned that bed time is bed time...and that the "new routine" is being pat on the back, sung to etc... and then you can gradually cut down the time of the patting \ songs... we cut down the songs first... so that there was just patting at the end, with one or two rounds of song... and then we'd tiptoe out when the baby was almost asleep... if they didn't cry and fell asleep...bonus. If not, we'd go in and pat them some more... don't wiat until it's a fit, go in right away so they're still half asleep...pat them some more... rinse and repeat.. lol

After a few weeks... being put down to bed and about 2 minutes of butt patting is about all it took...

The key thing is to make it ROUTINE. Same thing, all the time....

Just have patience. I mean... it can't be worse off that right now, no?

Boo&BugsMom replied: It wasn't until both boys started eating solid foods that they started sleeping a lot longer through the night. I know what you mean about having linebackers. Eek!!! They need to make a big and tall baby section in the stores, seriously.

You see with Tanner, we only had to have him CIO to fall asleep, but even then he didn't have to CIO much. He was very easy peasy and caught on rather quick. When we took his night feedings away we would still change his diaper, then lay him back to bed, and he'd go right back to sleep. He was really good about weening himself off of about everything, aside from his pacifier. He did eat at night for quite awhile, I'd say until he was about 6 months old. He was easy to conform to new things. Once we'd show him the way it was, he'd conform and work himself into the new schedule of sorts. He is still to this day very predictable and very much a creature of habit and schedule. He is easy to reason with still as well.

Now Aiden...well...Aiden is Aiden. He is VERY different. He is my protester. He is my spitfire. He is...well...the one that will give me gray hairs. Aiden just doesn't like to give in easily. We started letting him cry himself to sleep about 5 months I think. He learned quick, but still will give us a run for our money but we stick to our guns and he eventually caves, but will test us once in awhile. The problem we have with him is in the middle of the night, much like Andrew as you are explaining. He will fall asleep, but then he will wake up and protest until he gets what he wants.

At 4 months both my boys were still eating at night. I do agree every hour is too much...perhaps he might be looking to suck on something to soothe himself back to sleep? Aiden went through a period like that. We had to stop rocking him to sleep and stop letting him fall asleep while he as eating or he'd wake up a couple hours later and want to be re-rocked and re-fed to sleep. I think at his age every 3 hours at night is still normal. He may also be going through a growth spurt...you said he was a big boy...and want to eat more. You could try giving him more and see if that fills him up more unless his gas is too much of an issue. I think Tanner was on 8 ounces by then (yes, 8)...Aiden isn't as big of an eater but was eating 6 by then. He still lingers on 6-7 when he has a bottle inbetween mealtimes. Could you give him some rice cereal before bedtime? I know that really helped both of them to have something more solid in their tummies.

Hang in there. I think you're doing a great job and following what his needs are. I don't think you have anything to worry about at this point given he's still pretty young. Don't worry about patterns and habits yet.

mysweetpeasWil&Wes replied: I may be out of the norm, but I think a night feeding at 4 months is still necessary. JMO. I got lucky and Wil slept through the night at 4 months, but I also started him on solids around that time. And like Rocky said, I never woke a sleeping baby. Where with Wesley, I didn't start solids until 6 months amd he was still waking about twice a night to nurse (BM goes through them faster). And Wesley didn't eat much during the day, so any chance I could get, I would take it.

My only advice would be to talk to his ped about it. You say he is a big kid, but since you don't know his weight, I would start there and see whether he may need more during the night, according to his ped. Some kids just need more IMO.

boyohboyohboy replied: I do think he is rather on the hungry side..i also think he is ready to start solids, but with our family history of food allergies and andrew showing the signs of a milk allergies, we were asked not to start solids on him until he is 6 months old.
i do think he would sleep if he could eat, you should see him watching us eat, i think if he had better hand control he would grab the food right out of my mouth!

i think maybe i am going to start trying to lay him in the crib half awake the way rocky discribed. i just dont want to let this go to long and end up like jake, but i am also starting this with him at the same time. figure if one is crying now might as well get them all going at one time!


thanks guys i am sure i will be back with more questions

gr33n3y3z replied: 4 months is way to young for CIO

moped replied: If he is 15 pounds he can sleep through the night

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
What does weight have anything to do with sleeping through the night?


And 4 mos. IS too young for CIO,

I'd definitely wait with the solids too. That's only asking for more problems, especially with his brother's history. Give him an extra feeding during the day.

Boo&BugsMom replied: *** Editted to remove comments ***

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
I don't trust doctors' opinions on raising children. I trust my instincts more than what some quack says, and my instincts tell me to sleep with my children. Letting them cry goes against everything that I believe in. I don't understand why so many people care what their Ped says about what their kids eat or where/how they sleep! How do you think our species has survived for so long? We sure didn't have the so-called Gods in white coats telling us what to do .

boyohboyohboy replied: I think our species has lived so long because we are kind to each other and dont attack each other..
just using a little common sense and judgement seems to get us thru most things, but it certainly never hurts to ask for more help and support.
if the lazy comment was directed at me, well you dont know me that well, there isnt anything i wouldnt do for my kids....that included helping them learn to adjust to new situations that in the long run will better their health.

moped replied: A babies weight has everything to do with them being able to go through the night without eating!

Research!

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Didn't I already say I was DONE with the edits??

Please, as much as possible...even though it ticks you off and gets your goat... replying to the TROLLS that come here to cause trouble just makes them happy. Please try not to reply to them, or quote them etc... because then it just makes OUR job harder to come back and edit \ remove etc... just REPORT and IGNORE.

moped replied:

Boo&BugsMom replied:

You may want to edit my last post still Rocky, as now it looks a little weird now that a few other posts have been edited. Thanks.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: lol whoops... done.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:

ok NOW i'm done.

BabyOwen427 replied: A baby has to have a certain amount of body fat to be able to go several hours through the night with out nourishment. I'm not sure what the actual weight is, I thought it was about 12 lbs, but for sure weight does have a factor in sleeping through the night.

I nursed Owen at least once a night until he was about 4 months old. We still had trouble with going to bed so we did CIO when he was 6 months old to go to sleep but once he was asleep he slept through the night.

My2Beauties replied:
NOt at 6 weeks, Aubrey and Hanna were both waking up 2-3 times per night to eat at this age. Aubrey did sleep better than Hanna and slept through the night starting at 8 weeks, which stopped at about 4 months of age, but I still let her eat once at night if she wakes up now and she is 8 months old. Now at 8 months she probably can sleep all night, well I know she can because she has, but I do it for convenience so I don't have to hear her CIO, but to be honest at 6 weeks they still wake up more than once per night as far as I know.

My2Beauties replied: Oh and for the record I did the ferber method with Aubrey for a while and it worked wonders until she got sick and I couldn't let her CIO or Ferber because she was coughing so bad, but I need to start it up again. So I'm sorry if my other post sounded like I was against CIO, I'm not at the right age and weight.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Aiden was down to one feeding by the time he was 5 months, if I remember correctly. Tanner however was not. I think he was still waking up twice a night until he was about 9 months. Every child is different though. I was not blessed with one who slept through the entire night by 10 weeks like some have. Gosh, I wonder what that would be like. It would be HEAVENLY!!! I'm not so lucky.

My3LilMonkeys replied: I'm going to go with the majority here and say - it all depends on the child. Madison was actually sleeping through with no night feeding most nights at 1 month, which the vast majority of people told me was way to young and I should have woken her up. I was like, um, no, I am getting a full night's sleep and you want me to interrupt that intentionally? No thanks!

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I wouldn't have either. I NEVER woke up either of the boys to eat. If they are that hungry they will wake up, IMO. They are not going to get harmed by sleeping too much before eating. The only way I would have woken either of the boys up was if they were preemies or had issues with eating. One of the first cardinal rules I was told was to never wake a sleeping baby! And I listened!!!

MommyToAshley replied:
Ashley still would have a night feeding until about 10 months old too. Maybe it's possible, but I think 4 months is too early to stop the night feeding all together, but that's just me. I also BF, and they digest BF milk more quickly than formula, so maybe that played into it.

I can understand the needing sleep, but hang in there. I am sure I don't have to tell you that they just grow up so fast and there will come a day when you will miss rocking them.